lewys33
Well-Known Member
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-value-ricoh-arena-10357325
While the people of Coventry sit back and accept it..........
While the people of Coventry sit back and accept it..........
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-value-ricoh-arena-10357325
While the people of Coventry sit back and accept it..........
As I said in the thread yesterday, either their valuation is out or it was sold for millions less than what it was worth. Still, it wasn't SISU so everybody can be happy that Wasps prevented SISU from ripping off the tax payers of Coventry.
As I said in the thread yesterday, either their valuation is out or it was sold for millions less than what it was worth. Still, it wasn't SISU so everybody can be happy that Wasps prevented SISU from ripping off the tax payers of Coventry.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-value-ricoh-arena-10357325
While the people of Coventry sit back and accept it..........
I think you'll find that many people urged SISU to buy it, for whatever reason they didn't but Wasps did. Result CCFC is all f***ed up.
Careful now, Tony will be here in his non-defence of Wasps in a minute.
Was the same deal offered to CCFC when they offered it to Wasps?
I can't belive a single Coventry taxpayer would not want this investigated. We're not tallking about a small difference we're talking about 10s of millions at a time when local services are being cut.
Either the council have failed the taxpayers or Wasps are supplying false information, which as it was included in their bond prospectus is not on.
Took you longer than I thought it would.Never defended Wasps yet. It's just people like you are stupid enough to believe Grendull, Sickboy etc when they say I do. Funny that when i challange them they never come back with anything.
Took you longer than I thought it would.
Your posts nowadays mainly consist of Wasps defending or gushing over Letsallsingtogether and BHSB like some lovesick teenager.
It's extremely embarrassing to see.
Never defended Wasps yet. It's just people like you are stupid enough to believe Grendull, Sickboy etc when they say I do. Funny that when i challange them they never come back with anything.
Groundhog Day......
Took you longer than I thought it would.
Your posts nowadays mainly consist of Wasps defending or gushing over Letsallsingtogether and BHSB like some lovesick teenager.
It's extremely embarrassing to see.
400 odd posts on the other thread where you fight their corner suggests otherwise
Correct.....already its descended into the same old bullshit.
Can we try & keep this thread on topic...ie: Wasps valuing an asset at approx. 250% higher than Coventry City council managed to sell it for only a few months ago......
Its a fucking scandal & a disgrace.....
...So If the usual handful of dullards can continue to compare their forum cock size on the other thread, that would be most helpful.....thank you.
Post a couple up then. Show me where I've defended them.
Pretty sure you can lodge a complaint as a Coventry tax payer with the european parliment/commission if it bothers you that much. Pretty sure that the Coventry MEP is a tory also so I can't imagine he'll be too fussed about having mud slung at the Labour Council. You could always use your keyboard to write him a letter and do something pro-active rather than beying a keyboard hero.
Keyboard hero? That the same as being outraged when things happen to the cLub online but hardly going to games?Pretty sure you can lodge a complaint as a Coventry tax payer with the european parliment/commission if it bothers you that much. Pretty sure that the Coventry MEP is a tory also so I can't imagine he'll be too fussed about having mud slung at the Labour Council. You could always use your keyboard to write him a letter and do something pro-active rather than beying a keyboard hero.
That's interesting. On what basis would you lodge a complaint with the European parliment over the sell of a CCC asset to a private company? Might be worth pursuing. Certainly asking CCC for any information draws a blank.
I personally think £5(ish) mill for the stadium was shit money. I didn't want sisu to pay nothing for it, and I certainly didn't want a london rugby club to pay nothing for it. Was the same deal offered to CCFC when they offered it to Wasps?
What are you on about the European parliament for?Pretty sure you can lodge a complaint as a Coventry tax payer with the european parliment/commission if it bothers you that much. Pretty sure that the Coventry MEP is a tory also so I can't imagine he'll be too fussed about having mud slung at the Labour Council. You could always use your keyboard to write him a letter and do something pro-active rather than beying a keyboard hero.
Aside from the state aid issue, it's an issue of a council appropriately managing public assets and achieving best value for the taxpayer. It looks like they have failed on both counts to me.You tell me. You want it investigating. I thought you'd have an idea why you'd want it investigating before making that statement.
Personally if I was a Coventry taxpayer I would have reported it the moment the prospectus came out on state aid laws but I'm not a Coventry tax payer.
Here I'll help you out. The MEP for Coventry is Malcolm Harbour apparently. Tel: 01675 530682, email Malcom.harbour@europarl.europe.eu
If you google "lodge a complaint with the European commission" it's at the top of the page and there's a link to making a complaint on line. Sorry, on my phone so can't do a link otherwise I would.
As a taxpayer you pay for the right to use these resources so use them. Don't say I don't do anything to help you.
You might also want to start an online petition such as the fix football one. Michael Orton was quite vocally against the takeover but was exhausted from what he'd already done and the abuse he'd taken to take up the fight but he's very approachable and I'm sure he'd be willing to help set it up in an advisory capacity. PM him on here if his account is still open. If not I've got his private email address and if he's alright with it I'll PM it to you.
If you do set it up I'll even sign it. You can't say fairer than that.
What are you on about the European parliament for?
Aside from the state aid issue, it's an issue of a council appropriately managing public assets and achieving best value for the taxpayer. It looks like they have failed on both counts to me.
Furthermore Toni, you don't complain to Europe about State Aid, it's done through the British courts. Another one of your Gareth Keenan moments.
You tell me. You want it investigating. I thought you'd have an idea why you'd want it investigating before making that statement.
Personally if I was a Coventry taxpayer I would have reported it the moment the prospectus came out on state aid laws but I'm not a Coventry tax payer.
Except with the consent of the Secretary of State, a council shall not dispose of land under this section, otherwise than by way of a short tenancy, for a consideration less than the best that can reasonably be obtained.
a) when it is repeatedly advertised over a reasonably long period (two months or more) in the national press, estate gazettes or other appropriate publications and through real estate agents addressing a broad range of potential buyers, so that it can come to the notice of all potential buyers. The intended sale of land and buildings, which in view of their high value or other features may attract investors operating on a Europe-wide or international scale, should be announced in publications which have a regular international circulation. Such offers should also be made known through agents addressing clients on a Europe-wide or international scale
b) open and unconditional bidding procedure, comparable to an auction, accepting the best or only bid; or
c) an independent evaluation should be carried out by one or more independent asset valuers prior to the sale negotiations in order to establish the market value on the basis of generally accepted market indicators and valuation standards
Can we clear something up though. The long Leasehold interest of 250years is valued at £48.5m in line with valuation report in the prospectus. That is not the same as valuing the shares of ACL when they were sold to Wasps. Nor is it what ACL is currently valued at
the lease extension paid to CCC £1m - was that full/fair value? why wasn't such a lease in place previously instead of the short term one ACL had?
State aid wouldn't cover the sale of ACL to Wasps would it? Not sure where that would come in until the sale had been shown to be undervalue?
Would have thought the more relevant area would be the councils responsibility to achieve best value under section 123 of the 1972 Local Government Act
Although I think the requirement to obtain the consent of the Secretary of State has since been removed.
It generally seems to be accepted, from other cases that have gone to court, that the process to obtain best price requires a market valuation being obtain, it being placed on the market for an adequate length of time (no exact time is stated anywhere but 3 months seems to be the accepted minimum) and the sale advertised in the appropriate publications.
The only way I can see state aid coming in to it if is it was shown to be sold undervalue then CCC would in effect be subsidising Wasps with public money. Interestingly the European Commission guidance on how to avoid any problems with state aid state include the following requirement for a sale to be publicised
There are cases where councils have tried to defend an undervalue sale on non-financial grounds, for example regeneration, there is not a single example I can find of this succeeding. However this defense has been used successfully when defending on a local level, ie: to the Local Government Ombudsman. In those cases specific benefits
have to be shown.
yes it does but you must also take all the positives and negatives together to get to an opinion as to current value it will be a lot less than 48.5mSo would it be correct that Wasps purchased 50% of ACL from CCC with a 50 year Ricoh lease for £2.77. They then purchased a 200 year lease extension for £1m? would seem to be
If thats right the same point still broadly stands. How can a 200 year extension be worth £1m given the cost of the origianl lease and the value of ACL. Something doesn't seem to add it and it makes me wonder if things have been done a particular way so that technically it is legal & correct where morally it may be more questionable. Similar to the manner in which the whole administration process and moving of assets was carried out.that's why I had the final questions
Given the lease and not ACL is valued at £48.5m and that the lease lies with ACL under Wasps ownership would it not follow that the £48.5m forms part of the value of ACL?
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