Match Thread Watford (h) (1 Viewer)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
I think goals are a function of the team not down to any one player.

My view is that you need players from all over the pitch contributing. I just cannot see that is going to happen with the players we have. We have a real problem with non-scoring players. Now we have lost Vik and Hamer it is going to stand out even more. Godden needs to step up and so far seems to be doing that to an extent, but then at least one of the strikers which cost a lot need to prove their value. In the midfield we need Palmer, Sakamoto, and perhaps Ayari to chip in too.

We need to be more aggressive going forward. Personally I would play two up top and drop one of Eccles or Sheaf (probably Sheaf), potentially for Ayari if he is good enough. Again we have wingbacks which need to contribute too, and whilst it might take some time, they've had a couple of games getting into good positions now, but has come to nothing. We should have a strong enough squad for there to be some healthy competition. I wouldn't be hesitant to disrupt that midfield set, particularly if we sign another couple in those positions before the end of the window.

Hobo · Aug 30, 2023

TomRad85 said:
Always wanted us to go 2 up top more but now we're there i find myself wanting to go back to this.

It does seem to suit us especially away from home. We seem to create more with the extra man in midfield and look less vulnerable.

It might suite Wright more than Simms though?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

CCFC88 said:
Simply "Sticking two up top" hasnt worked against good defences and Watford's look just as good, try something else, if its not working we have options on the bench.

I'd rather move from a 1 up top to a 2 up top after an hour if were still goal shy, going from a 2 to a 1probably less effective

We dropped Wright who looks one of our biggest goal threats, and spent most of the game passing it around the midfield. Adding an extra midfielder for a striker is not going to change that.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
My view is that you need players from all over the pitch contributing. I just cannot see that is going to happen with the players we have. We have a real problem with non-scoring players. Now we have lost Vik and Hamer it is going to stand out even more. Godden needs to step up and so far seems to be doing that to an extent, but then at least one of the strikers which cost a lot need to prove their value. In the midfield we need Palmer, Sakamoto, and perhaps Ayari to chip in too.

We need to be more aggressive going forward. Personally I would play two up top and drop one of Eccles or Sheaf (probably Sheaf), potentially for Ayari if he is good enough. Again we have wingbacks which need to contribute too, and whilst it might take some time, they've had a couple of games getting into good positions now, but has come to nothing. We should have a strong enough squad for there to be some healthy competition. I wouldn't be hesitant to disrupt that midfield set, particularly if we sign another couple in those positions before the end of the window.

My point is no one scores if you don’t create chances and despite as increase in possession I don’t think we have been. And that’s more down to how we play than who we play IMO.

Without Gus we’re lacking quick forward balls while the defence isn’t set and without Vik were lacking the ability to just pump it long and probably get something out of it. We’re building up more and we’re playing Godden and Simms who both want to be on the end of chances in the box, so one of them gets dragged into buildup play anyway. In Ayari and Palmer we’ve got probably the only two who might unlock a defence with a quick pass or decent through ball. So for me the best way to get us scoring is to have a couple of AMs who can shoot from range and unlock defences and let the striker worry about getting on the end of things. Whoever they may be.

Sky_Blue_Daz · Aug 30, 2023

Would like to see Simms start alongside godden , I feel once he scores he will go on a run of scoring

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
My point is no one scores if you don’t create chances and despite as increase in possession I don’t think we have been. And that’s more down to how we play than who we play IMO.

Without Gus we’re lacking quick forward balls while the defence isn’t set and without Vik were lacking the ability to just pump it long and probably get something out of it. We’re building up more and we’re playing Godden and Simms who both want to be on the end of chances in the box, so one of them gets dragged into buildup play anyway. In Ayari and Palmer we’ve got probably the only two who might unlock a defence with a quick pass or decent through ball. So for me the best way to get us scoring is to have a couple of AMs who can shoot from range and unlock defences and let the striker worry about getting on the end of things. Whoever they may be.

Well, either way I don't think we should underestimate how much the central midfield needs strengthening. The window isn't closed yet, but I really hope we get some in before it closes.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well, either way I don't think we should underestimate how much the central midfield needs strengthening. The window isn't closed yet, but I really hope we get some in before it closes.

100%

I’m not worried about us, we’ll be a solid mid table team without a replacement. But we really need some quality that will pull some strings in the middle and knit everything together. You just feel with that we’re a top six side.

CCFC88 · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
We dropped Wright who looks one of our biggest goal threats, and spent most of the game passing it around the midfield. Adding an extra midfielder for a striker is not going to change that.

We wouldn't be replacing Wright with Liam Kelly, we'd be replacing him with a creative more attack minded midfielder. It gives CB's more to think about as they have to break their line to come out and defend, the two up top has been two easy to defend so far

CCFC88 · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well, either way I don't think we should underestimate how much the central midfield needs strengthening. The window isn't closed yet, but I really hope we get some in before it closes.

Agree, Sheaf and Eccles are too similar and against good, well organised teams that is not enough, we need a midfielder alongside sheaf who can get us up the field by carrying the ball, commit defenders and then pick a pass. Gus basically , I think Ayari may be able to do that but it remains to be seen if he has the physicality against stronger midfields

mmttww · Aug 30, 2023

Simms and Wright were signed to be our first choice front two.

May as well just try it eventually so I'm hoping it happens on Sat.

pusbccfc · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
Will it be that low? How many are Watford likely to bring?

1500 I reckon. No trains back

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

CCFC88 said:
Agree, Sheaf and Eccles are too similar and against good, well organised teams that is not enough, we need a midfielder alongside sheaf who can get us up the field by carrying the ball, commit defenders and then pick a pass. Gus basically , I think Ayari may be able to do that but it remains to be seen if he has the physicality against stronger midfields

People keep saying drop Eccles, but he has been as good as Sheaf this season.

Last season Sheaf missed ten games. We won 7 and drew 3. If we are playing at home and have stronger CM players, I wouldn't hesitate to leave him out in order to be more aggressive going forwards.

Macca1987 · Aug 30, 2023

I would still start Eccles, but he runs out of steam second half, so we need MR to see this and replace him when needed

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
People keep saying drop Eccles, but he has been as good as Sheaf this season.

Last season Sheaf missed ten games. We won 7 and drew 3. If we are playing at home and have stronger CM players, I wouldn't hesitate to leave him out in order to be more aggressive going forwards.

He got an injury during our run of form towards the playoffs… Unless you’re actually claiming the run happened because we didn’t have Sheaf.

coop · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
My view is that you need players from all over the pitch contributing. I just cannot see that is going to happen with the players we have. We have a real problem with non-scoring players. Now we have lost Vik and Hamer it is going to stand out even more. Godden needs to step up and so far seems to be doing that to an extent, but then at least one of the strikers which cost a lot need to prove their value. In the midfield we need Palmer, Sakamoto, and perhaps Ayari to chip in too.

We need to be more aggressive going forward. Personally I would play two up top and drop one of Eccles or Sheaf (probably Sheaf), potentially for Ayari if he is good enough. Again we have wingbacks which need to contribute too, and whilst it might take some time, they've had a couple of games getting into good positions now, but has come to nothing. We should have a strong enough squad for there to be some healthy competition. I wouldn't be hesitant to disrupt that midfield set, particularly if we sign another couple in those positions before the end of the window.

Certainly wouldn't drop Sheaf instead of Eccles

PVA · Aug 30, 2023

I'd be tempted to go with the box too.

Fuck knows which striker you'd choose to start though. I'd go with Wright, but would think Robins would go with Godden.

Then if we're chasing the game bring on the two sub strikers for one of the AMs and the starting striker.

If we're winning then bring on am AM and ST in like for like changes.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
He got an injury during our run of form towards the playoffs… Unless you’re actually claiming the run happened because we didn’t have Sheaf.

I am just providing the facts. Feel free to interpret them as you wish!

Boicey · Aug 30, 2023

He'll defintely play Godden so it will be 2 upfront.
I guess Ayari will start. Sadly Saka will warm the bench only used if we're chasing the game with 15 mins left.
Which is a shame because Saka is one of our few players capable of shaking up defences. We're too practicable.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I am just providing the facts. Feel free to interpret them as you wish!

Didn’t @Philosorapter prove that someone random like Tannai Watson was our best player using the ppg method?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
Didn’t @Philosorapter prove that someone random like Tannai Watson was our best player using the ppg method?

Probably! Although we do have a contingent of our fans that think certain players are a lot better than they are and that we are screwed without them. When O'Hare got injured there was actual talk of relegation on here. The reality was far different, and if it wasn't for Dabo we would be in the Premier League now. Same with Sheaf, all this talk he is world class is just getting stupid. As sourced, the run of form we had without him in last season was incredible. We shouldn't be afraid to mix it up in order to be a bit more aggressive and get players in that have a bit more end product to the creative side of things.

Note: I apologise to the hard working souls who work on the Samaritans hotline that hoped to finish on time today.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Probably! Although we do have a contingent of our fans that think certain players are a lot better than they are and that we are screwed without them. When O'Hare got injured there was actual talk of relegation on here. The reality was far different, and if it wasn't for Dabo we would be in the Premier League now. Same with Sheaf, all this talk he is world class is just getting stupid. As sourced, the run of form we had without him in last season was incredible. We shouldn't be afraid to mix it up in order to be a bit more aggressive and get players in that have a bit more end product to the creative side of things.

Note: I apologise to the hard working souls who work on the Samaritans hotline that hoped to finish on time today.

We have a team of good players. I think it says a lot that not many leave and hit the same heights. Sheaf had been excellent for a couple of years now and edgy claims like dropping him are just silly and make it look like you’ve got an ace to grind. Him and Eccles are too similar, I’ll grant you that. But Eccles isn’t close to the same level of player. Though he may grow into it.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 30, 2023

With Allen out 3/4 of last season's top scorers aren't playing, so that's a big gap to fill

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
We have a team of good players. I think it says a lot that not many leave and hit the same heights. Sheaf had been excellent for a couple of years now and edgy claims like dropping him are just silly and make it look like you’ve got an ace to grind. Him and Eccles are too similar, I’ll grant you that. But Eccles isn’t close to the same level of player. Though he may grow into it.

A financial plan would maybe see Sheaf sold end of this season with Eccles then ready to step in

honestken · Aug 30, 2023

m156788 said:
how many tickets have been allocated for Watford ?

Not sure but they sold out last week.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
We have a team of good players. I think it says a lot that not many leave and hit the same heights. Sheaf had been excellent for a couple of years now and edgy claims like dropping him are just silly and make it look like you’ve got an ace to grind. Him and Eccles are too similar, I’ll grant you that. But Eccles isn’t close to the same level of player. Though he may grow into it.

I assume you mean axe, but it isn't like that. Some of the things people have been coming out with recently are getting silly and it causes a reaction the other way. There's no grounded view on this because in all honesty he hasn't been better than Eccles overall this season. It's double standards on other players. He gave possession directly to Sunderland three times in as many minutes in the second half on Saturday, yet it gets ignored. If that was Eccles he would be getting pelters. As I said, when he didn't play last season our results took an upturn. There are obviously a wide amount of variants there, but no one wants to talk about it without plugging their fingers in their ears.

In reality the central midfield currently isn't useful for us to score goals, and if we want to be a top team, they will need to be. We need to upgrade in that position so that both Sheaf and Eccles are probably rotating for one spot. That should then be based on form/consistency, not someone off SBT's wet dream.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I assume you mean axe, but it isn't like that. Some of the things people have been coming out with recently are getting silly and it causes a reaction the other way. There's no grounded view on this because in all honesty he hasn't been better than Eccles overall this season. It's double standards on other players. He gave possession directly to Sunderland three times in as many minutes in the second half on Saturday, yet it gets ignored. If that was Eccles he would be getting pelters. As I said, when he didn't play last season our results took an upturn. There are obviously a wide amount of variants there, but no one wants to talk about it without plugging their fingers in their ears.

In reality the central midfield currently isn't useful for us to score goals, and if we want to be a top team, they will need to be. We need to upgrade in that position so that both Sheaf and Eccles are probably rotating for one spot. That should then be based on form/consistency, not someone off SBT's wet dream.

The sort of form that has you consistently rated as one of the divisions best holding midfielders? That sort of form. You’ve got an issue with Sheaf clearly. And you’re projecting on everyone else claiming they’re acting mental. All the stats back up those saying Sheaf is a top player in our side. He plays a different role to Hamer and Eccles isn’t about to replace him. We will hopefully sign a player to take Hamers role and they’ll play alongside Sheaf. Because he’s one of the best DMs in the division.

Macca1987 · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Probably! Although we do have a contingent of our fans that think certain players are a lot better than they are and that we are screwed without them. When O'Hare got injured there was actual talk of relegation on here. The reality was far different, and if it wasn't for Dabo we would be in the Premier League now. Same with Sheaf, all this talk he is world class is just getting stupid. As sourced, the run of form we had without him in last season was incredible. We shouldn't be afraid to mix it up in order to be a bit more aggressive and get players in that have a bit more end product to the creative side of things.

Note: I apologise to the hard working souls who work on the Samaritans hotline that hoped to finish on time today.

This does make me laugh when people quote, 'if it wasn't for Dabo we would have been in the premier league'. Even if Dabo had scored another set of pens would need to have been taken, who's to say our next player wouldn't miss, or the next one after that

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
The sort of form that has you consistently rated as one of the divisions best holding midfielders? That sort of form. You’ve got an issue with Sheaf clearly. And you’re projecting on everyone else claiming they’re acting mental. All the stats back up those saying Sheaf is a top player in our side. He plays a different role to Hamer and Eccles isn’t about to replace him. We will hopefully sign a player to take Hamers role and they’ll play alongside Sheaf. Because he’s one of the best DMs in the division.

All the stats, apart from the one where he didn't play and we performed better, or that actually we were more effective when Allen is in the side. We can also cover his goals and assists too (or lack of), but we won't. Some people just have blinkers with Sheaf, but I suspect the hill you are dying on here is more an anti-Allen/Eccles thing. You're not really countering my points with any facts, just jumping on the bandwagon. Until anyone can sensibly do that, I am going to claim the 'best midfielder in the league' and 'other clubs want him for millions' is the mental point of view. It's what other fans do about players in their team which are pretty average, and we usually laugh at them.

At the moment I feel he's overrated and hasn't played better than Eccles this season overall either. If you analyse all the games properly there isn't a huge amount between them. I think he is a decent player, but I wouldn't be upset if someone else came in with the ability to be more creative and took his place. Someone that also doesn't switch off so much too. This gushing for him that we are seeing at the moment is a turn off though. Some fans put him in the same bracket as Hamer/Vik and whilst he has improved since the first day he got here, he hasn't been anywhere near good enough to deserve that yet.

theferret · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
Will it be that low? How many are Watford likely to bring?

They have sold out haven't they? They have designated it some sort of junior fans away day and have sold a load. Not sure what their allocation was though.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

theferret said:
They have sold out haven't they? They have designated it some sort of junior fans away day and have sold a load. Not sure what their allocation was though.

Should be up to 6k in theory, but obviously won’t be. 4K or so? If so then will probably be the biggest gate so far.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 30, 2023

Macca1987 said:
This does make me laugh when people quote, 'if it wasn't for Dabo we would have been in the premier league'. Even if Dabo had scored another set of pens would need to have been taken, who's to say our next player wouldn't miss, or the next one after that

Well what would have happened if Dabo had scored? There's a chance we would be in the Premier League. Again, people are very precious about Dabo but the buck stops with him because ultimately he was the only one to miss a penalty. The fact he's struggling to get a club now says a lot, and we put our ambitions on him. Don't wish him ill, but let's call a spade a spade. He wasn't anywhere near good enough for a long time and him missing a penalty ultimately was the core variable that stopped us getting to the Premier League.

shmmeee · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
All the stats, apart from the one where he didn't play and we performed better, or that actually we were more effective when Allen is in the side. We can also cover his goals and assists too (or lack of), but we won't. Some people just have blinkers with Sheaf, but I suspect the hill you are dying on here is more an anti-Allen/Eccles thing. You're not really countering my points with any facts, just jumping on the bandwagon. Until anyone can sensibly do that, I am going to claim the 'best midfielder in the league' and 'other clubs want him for millions' is the mental point of view. It's what other fans do about players in their team which are pretty average, and we usually laugh at them.

At the moment I feel he's overrated and hasn't played better than Eccles this season overall either. If you analyse all the games properly there isn't a huge amount between them. I think he is a decent player, but I wouldn't be upset if someone else came in with the ability to be more creative and took his place. Someone that also doesn't switch off so much too. This gushing for him that we are seeing at the moment is a turn off though. Some fans put him in the same bracket as Hamer/Vik and whilst he has improved since the first day he got here, he hasn't been anywhere near good enough to deserve that yet.

What points? That we “do well without him”? That’s not how football works. It’s a team sport. You can do well with poor players and badly with good players because a single player doesn’t have that much of an impact.

Sheaf has probably the best passing range and vision in the squad right now, his defensive and ball possession stats are excellent. No he doesn’t score loads, but he plays the holding role of the two up until Hamer left so that’s no surprising.

I’m not anti-Allen and anti-Eccles. Allen came on leaps and bounds as an AM last season but even two of him in a trenchcoat aren’t a DM. Eccles is showing promise but lacks the passing range of Sheaf and his physicality. It’ll come but right now he’s an understudy.

theferret · Aug 30, 2023

shmmeee said:
Should be up to 6k in theory, but obviously won’t be. 4K or so? If so then will probably be the biggest gate so far.

Not sure we're allocating more than 3K at the moment.

ccfcricoh · Aug 30, 2023

id be amazed if Ayari starts, need Allen back asap as i think he's the best we have at linking MF to ST and chipping in with a few goals in the process... when he is i think the box is more likely, until then, i think its top 2 again (god knows which 2!)

fatso · Aug 30, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
My view is that you need players from all over the pitch contributing. I just cannot see that is going to happen with the players we have. We have a real problem with non-scoring players. Now we have lost Vik and Hamer it is going to stand out even more. Godden needs to step up and so far seems to be doing that to an extent, but then at least one of the strikers which cost a lot need to prove their value. In the midfield we need Palmer, Sakamoto, and perhaps Ayari to chip in too.

We need to be more aggressive going forward. Personally I would play two up top and drop one of Eccles or Sheaf (probably Sheaf), potentially for Ayari if he is good enough. Again we have wingbacks which need to contribute too, and whilst it might take some time, they've had a couple of games getting into good positions now, but has come to nothing. We should have a strong enough squad for there to be some healthy competition. I wouldn't be hesitant to disrupt that midfield set, particularly if we sign another couple in those positions before the end of the window.

That's a bit harsh on Wright, he's only started 1 game, and got subbed in that after 79 minutes, but he's still managed a goal and an assist, and forced 2 very good saves from shots that were on target.

He's more than proving his value if you look at goals per starts or even goals per minutes.

Match Thread Watford (h) (1 Viewer)

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