What is the debt

Discussion in 'Ricoh Row / Politics / SISU Section' started by Bruce the Boot, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    What is the actual debt , and what is the breakdown of how it got there ? The figures being quoted do seem true , we have nt spent that much over these yrs surely ? In the past we sold players for good money , Scott Dann , for one , Perhaps if we can work out where the debt as come from , we will get a better insight into why Sisu are still here .
     
  2. Brylowes

    Brylowes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    3,503
    "Our mortal souls"
     
  3. Warwickhunt

    Warwickhunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    370
    I have just gone into self harm phase:drowning:
     
  4. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    311
    Well it was £60m + at the point CCFC left Highfield Road - start from there
     
  5. Hobo

    Hobo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    7,824
    Likes Received:
    4,341
    Location:
    Coventry
    Depends which way the wind is blowing. SISU announced we were debt free, 30m then in the administration process suddenly shot up to 60m, plus they forgot which company had the golden share. Which was clearly done to muddy the waters for any prospective buyers.
     
    Brylowes likes this.
  6. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    This is why I asked the question , Somebody that understands accounts from Sisu s tenure of the club might be able to see where the debt has come from , because they have nt spent that much ?
     
  7. Brylowes

    Brylowes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    3,503
    Or which company held the players registration.
    Good job SISU knew, otherwise they probably wouldn't have been
    Able to buy themselves out of administration.
     
  8. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    34,301
    Likes Received:
    8,961
    What's that got to even do with this subject? Which has been done to death.
     
  9. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    22,828
    Likes Received:
    7,221
    We've consistently made losses of around £6-7m pa since before and after sisu took over. They did wipe out some debt after admin, some of the the debt is also IOU's. I'd imagine its somewhere in the region of £40m.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
  10. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    Why join in then ?
     
  11. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    Well thats why I think a detailed analysis is required to see what actually is going on ?
     
  12. Brylowes

    Brylowes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    3,503
    I was replying to this post.
    since when are threads not allowed to drift gently back and forth from the central subject matter, every
    Subject on here has been done to death !!
     
  13. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    34,301
    Likes Received:
    8,961
    For what purpose?
     
  14. Nick

    Nick Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    70,565
    Likes Received:
    21,848
    Location:
    Coventry
    Won't it show in the accounts?
     
  15. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    8,073
    Likes Received:
    11,771
    Location:
    Coventry
    From the cash flow statements in the accounts 2008 to 2015

    Total loans received £52.97m - of that £4.6m is from monies advanced as a loan by purchaser against the sale of Prozone
    Total loans repaid £10.8m - including £4.6m Prozone loan repaid
    Preference shares issued to repay loans (and some interest?) £4.3m

    The original loan in the 2009 accounts was 11m. Because of the way the deal was done that loan included £9m for the purchase the CCFC H Group net assets( net assets fair value of assets & liabilities taken on £8m plus £1m consideration), basically the investors took on the cash flow of the business that's not the same as paying cash in. SBS&L Group largely met that cash flow from its operations as CCFC. In addition there was a value of £1m put on the option to purchase the ACL shares this was a valuation not an actual purchase. the actual consideration to purchase the group was around £1m but the "loans" will show more on top of that because the way the deal was done. It looks like there was actual cash flow funding in 2008/09 of £2m(11m - 8m-1m)

    In addition the creditors taken over 2008 included payments due to certain creditors of £6.4m should we get promoted, we didn't and the amount was written off as a loss.

    Loans outstanding on purchase 2008 - £ 0

    Loans outstanding 31-05-15 - £40.55
    Arvo £7.75
    SISU investors £28.5m
    ARVO Preference shares £4.3m

    However factoring in the above narrative and the actual cash from SISU investors would seem to be nearer £19.5m (not a small sum but not as great as we might have thought certainly not £60m ) The potential loss to ARVO & SISU investors seems nearer to £31m

    SBS&L Group Losses at purchase of CCFC in 2008 - £0

    SBS&L Group losses at 31-05-15 - £49.2m
    (which includes the £6.4m mentioned above, the purchase out of administration written off 1.5m, devaluation of Ryton £400k, Writing down the option value £1m, Goodwill write off 1.3m and a profit on disposal of Prozone)

    Just my take on it - others might see it differently,
     
    Captain Dart and Brylowes like this.
  16. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    311
    Or more to the point - does it matter in the current situation?
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    70,565
    Likes Received:
    21,848
    Location:
    Coventry
    It does if people are trying to drag everything and anything to make SISU and or the club look bad and get some anger and rage going.
     
  18. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    34,301
    Likes Received:
    8,961
    No just a sideshow as ever.
     
  19. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    17,254
    Likes Received:
    11,754
    Location:
    Coventry
    Guess it only matters if someone is serious about a takeover. Any new owner would want to move forward with no debt so it would be a buy the club for a £1 but pay off some of the debt. The key question is how much would be required.
     
  20. MusicDating

    MusicDating Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    443
    You forgot the eleventy billion that SISU have trousered...:rolleyes:
     
  21. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    Here you go again , Im just interested to know why so much debt , when on the surface it looks like they spent nothing ?
     
    Red Hills Cov Kid likes this.
  22. Bruce the Boot

    Bruce the Boot Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    233
    Thanks , I get what you say but what does it mean ? What are these loans for , Why have the club borrowed , what have they bought ? At face value where has the millions been spent , ie , there is nothing to show for it ?
     
  23. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    34,301
    Likes Received:
    8,961
    It's to fund the year on year losses the club have incurred. You do realise what the wage bill was like proportionate to income when they took over I assume? Players on well over £10k a week and the club losing money hand over fist? What do you think happens with these losses? They get swept up by the tooth fairy?
     
  24. MusicDating

    MusicDating Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    443
    Tbf the tooth fairy must be losing money these days at 2 fkin quid a tooth!...
     
  25. albatross

    albatross Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    179

    OSB I was under the impression that the "good will" write off was much closer to £10m since SISU took over. I cannot say I have gone through the accounts to confirm this but have taken it from the article below.

    https://aprisonofmeasuredtime.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/think-ill-buy-me-a-football-team-part-2/

    Here they claim "Of the £34 million losses, the accounts for SBSL Ltd show a total of £14,801,002 for such transactions. These include the amortisations of players contracts that total £6.8 million, amortisation of goodwill of £4.3 million over the period and a one-off £6.4 million goodwill impairment charge."

    As I say I have not verified this but if true would show a substantial balance sheet loss thatcher than actual £'s out of the door invested in the club
     

Share This Page