What's up with Ben Sheaf? (5 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

have to say though, if he’s not been 100% fit this season then it’s not totally fair to criticise too much.

Will he ever be 100% or has he got to a stage where his body is letting him down a bit.

 

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[Mr Panda]

This you Earlsdon

It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

• Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
• Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
• What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?

He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

• Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
• Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
• What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?

He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.

Last two seasons until about four games ago we’ve tried to be a possession team instead of counter attacking (with Gus/Vik) or direct (Lampard recently), we’ve changed that this time with Sheaf out and people think he was demanding everyone play sideways or something.

 

[Hobo]

It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

• Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
• Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
• What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?

He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.

I don't care who is in or out of the team.

This is what my eyes tell me:

Sheaf is a great DM who can pick a pass.
When we try and play out through him as a play maker it fails. He slows our tempo down and doesn't get us forward. If anything we go backwards into our penalty area with the opposition press on.

He is a great DM but a below par playmaker. Let's just accept him for what he is and play to his strengths and not his weaknesses.

 

[walkingalongsingingasong]

Sheaf to us is like Luke Shaw is to Man United. Good but regularly broken and about as fragile as glass.

He’s good but let’s move him on this summer and get someone who can play regularly throughout a season.

 

[wingy]

Don’t make me get Philosoraptors graphs out.

You know they're coming!

 

[higgs]

Time to move him on actually last summer was the time he needs a fresh start

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[Bigelvesy]

This you Earlsdon

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

I’m not surprised at those stats to be fair - I’ve thought this recently.

We play quicker without sheaf and it’s given Torp a bit more freedom - Allen’s energy in the middle though has been a big help.

It’s obvious when he plays everyone looks for him and for every play to go through him - I liken it to when we had Gary Macallister. Everything slows down.

.

This is what I've read time and time again from Swansea fans about Grimey. That everything goes through him, he slows the play down and passes backwards/sidewards too much. That's from posts pre January too.

I think nearly every club in the Championship would want Sheaf.

The win ratio stats are surprising but I still think we are better with him than without. I'm not convinced with him as captain but the break might actually help him.

When you're playing poorly there is more pressure on players like Sheaf & Grimey. When it's not working on the pitch, no one is willing (not confident) to take responsibility.

We have one of England's best midfielders as manager, I'm sure he can get a tune out of both of them.


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[Frostie]

We play quicker without sheaf and it’s given Torp a bit more freedom - Allen’s energy in the middle though has been a big help.

Sheaf & Torp have only ever started a handful of games together. It's a shame really, we've never seen the best of them together.

 

[Mr Panda]

There's a lot of mention about Sheaf and Grimes slowing things down from both sets of fans. It's worth mentioning that this is needed in a game of football, the best players just know when to dial it up or dial it down.

As good as Allen has been over the last few games with moving things forward, there will come a time against better teams in this division where you need someone to put their foot on the ball and amidst the chaos of a high press - no disrespect to him but this is where he will be lacking

 

[shmmeee]

So to recap we’re hoping for someone with the passing range of Hamer, the class of Sheaf, the energy of Allen and the set pieces of Torp and Rudoni

No pressure Matt.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Sheaf & Torp have only ever started a handful of games together. It's a shame really, we've never seen the best of them together.

Sheaf set Torp up for his debut goal

 

[napolimp]

Sheaf is a phenomenal midfielder at this level. I'd like to see his injury carefully managed for the remainder of the season, and go again in August at full fitness. Unless of course someone offers stupid money. No interest in having him leave for sub 10 mil.

 

[Nick]

I don't care who is in or out of the team.

This is what my eyes tell me:

Sheaf is a great DM who can pick a pass.
When we try and play out through him as a play maker it fails. He slows our tempo down and doesn't get us forward. If anything we go backwards into our penalty area with the opposition press on.

He is a great DM but a below par playmaker. Let's just accept him for what he is and play to his strengths and not his weaknesses.

He's a great DM who can pick a pass but we can't play through him because he slows us down and we can't go forward.

Surely that means he can't pick a pass?

 

[Chicken Mcgraw]

You lot complaining about Sheaf ‘slowing us down’ are in for a real shock with Grimes.

 

[Jamesimus]

You lot complaining about Sheaf ‘slowing us down’ are in for a real shock with Grimes.

It’s a fair comment my feathered friend.

I think Sheaf and Grimes are quite similar midfielders and I’d be surprised if they start many games together and it works. I’d like to be wrong on this.

It’s one of the reasons when I heard this rumour I assumed Sheaf was on his way out!

 

[False9]

Sheaf set Torp up for his debut goal

Oh yea he really made that goal

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh yea he really made that goal

It was an assist Sheffield Wednesday vs. Coventry City Match Report – Friday January 26, 2024 | FBref.com

 

[False9]

It was an assist Sheffield Wednesday vs. Coventry City Match Report – Friday January 26, 2024 | FBref.com

Yea it was an assist on paper but he had nothing to do with the goal

 

[Hobo]

He's a great DM who can pick a pass but we can't play through him because he slows us down and we can't go forward.

Surely that means he can't pick a pass?

He can't do it consistently enough for a playmaker. Lots of players can make good passes during a game it doesn't make them a playmaker.

A playmaker really dictates the pattern of play and gets you on the front foot.. Sheaf doesn't.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yea it was an assist on paper but he had nothing to do with the goal

Yes, Torp would have got the ball in space in that shooting position without Sheaf having made the pass to him.

 

[Mr Panda]

He can't do it consistently enough for a playmaker. Lots of players can make good passes during a game it doesn't make them a playmaker.

A playmaker really dictates the pattern of play and gets you on the front foot.. Sheaf doesn't.

Stats for seasons gone by suggest he's quite a progressive passer. Could it be perhaps that this season he just hasn't had much of offer ahead of him?

Not that I see him as someone who should carry the playmaker title anyway, playmaker for me is more like Hamer, Torp...the higher risk players.

 

[Hobo]

Stats for seasons gone by suggest he's quite a progressive passer. Could it be perhaps that this season he just hasn't had much of offer ahead of him?

Not that I see him as someone who should carry the playmaker title anyway, playmaker for me is more like Hamer, Torp...the higher risk players.

The problem is he has missed Hamers creativity. At the start of this season Torp wasn't up to speed. Torp has come into his own in recent weeks while Sheaf has been out injured

Earlier this season we were trying to use Sheaf as the player maker and it just didn't suit him. He struggled even more once teams started sitting a man on him.

Those are my observations anyway.