BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
Nah he wont go just yet , he will be gone by Xmas though if results dont change
Will AT be gone before West Ham (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ICHAN
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
To be fair paxman we had a defence of Willis (17), keogh, Cameron (19) and Christie (18) for the last 30 mins. We were always going to be under pressure and prone to individual errors
rob9872
Well-Known Member
With a decent pedigree and experience AB was only on £100k so I doubt that Thorn would be on more than £50k.
ICHAN
Well-Known Member
Don't think he will get that long BRRM Sisu won't let it go on that long and unfortunatly nor will the fans(we are in a minority on here regarding opinions on AT) compared to the fan base, and AT will not get till xmas to turn it around before the fans start to turn, unfortunatly his honeymoon period is over and other teams know how we play now.
Weather you like him or not "nice bloke etc" that does not win games and this is a sport ruled by results and unfortunatly we are not getting the results.
We can blame SISU etc for this that and the other, but they will not be going first, the players can not be sacked (unfortunatly) so AT is the only option here weather we like it or not but the noose is getting tighter and tighter for him in my opinion.
Alternatives to him who knows I don't but I feel a change is needed and needed soon because until there ready or someone comes in very quick with an offer SISU are going nowhere and we really are, hate to say this very very woeful at the moment.
Also if we are taken over I think AT will be back scouting as they would bring in a more experianced manager to try and change the season around very quickly.
Weather you like him or not "nice bloke etc" that does not win games and this is a sport ruled by results and unfortunatly we are not getting the results.
We can blame SISU etc for this that and the other, but they will not be going first, the players can not be sacked (unfortunatly) so AT is the only option here weather we like it or not but the noose is getting tighter and tighter for him in my opinion.
Alternatives to him who knows I don't but I feel a change is needed and needed soon because until there ready or someone comes in very quick with an offer SISU are going nowhere and we really are, hate to say this very very woeful at the moment.
Also if we are taken over I think AT will be back scouting as they would bring in a more experianced manager to try and change the season around very quickly.
kg82
Well-Known Member
That's the attitude every time - a change is needed. We've given him less than 30 games. He hasn't been able to make this team his own. But a change is needed. Personally, I think that's bullshit. We'll be trying to get the next manager out after 5 games next because he's been able to make a loan signing and we're still in 23rd place! A lot of those players on the pitch ARE good enough but my word are they letting themselves, the club and the fans down at the moment. It's embarrassing that I can genuinely say I would have more of an effect on a game playing for 5 minutes than some of them - before collapsing with exhaustion!
Disillusioned? I am. But not with AT. I'm disillusioned with prima donnas, diving, too much money for players, player fucking power... Fuck you, you're pawns in a fucking game. Do your damn job.
Rant over, sorry about that.
Disillusioned? I am. But not with AT. I'm disillusioned with prima donnas, diving, too much money for players, player fucking power... Fuck you, you're pawns in a fucking game. Do your damn job.
Rant over, sorry about that.
ICHAN
Well-Known Member
kg82 nice rant 
but alas they can't be sacked need to be or not get paid but won't happen they have the power now and they know it, not the manager.
Thats why AT will be the only alternative here and think it will be before the next game, the players just don't care (the majority of them) weather they say they do is a media thing because they can not actually say "you know what, fuck the fans fuck the club i'm not bothered because i'm being paid anyway" any other job and you would be sacked within a week.
but alas they can't be sacked need to be or not get paid but won't happen they have the power now and they know it, not the manager.Thats why AT will be the only alternative here and think it will be before the next game, the players just don't care (the majority of them) weather they say they do is a media thing because they can not actually say "you know what, fuck the fans fuck the club i'm not bothered because i'm being paid anyway" any other job and you would be sacked within a week.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
There's no harm in trying a different manager. A lot of fans already seem resigned to relegation, which is a pretty desperate comment on how badly things are going. Changing managers isn't going to make things any worse, is it?
kg82
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I actually was agreeing with what you were saying as I was going through it but at the same time it made me a little angry to think these footballers get paid whatever they do to put in minimum effort. FFS, McSheffreys a Coventry fan and he's been virtually anonymous this season (in the games he's played I mean). I just don't get it. If these same bunch of players were all playing for a different team would they be doing better? Is it something psychological with players that come here thinking this club is a soft touch? I mean Jesus, Eastwood has come here, we've seen glimpses but all in all he's done nothing. Now he's decided to eat his yearly allowance of calories every day because he knows he'll still be picking up that paypacket.
ICHAN
Well-Known Member
Some have just been given contract extentions ffs so they will get the same fat paycheck no matter where we as a club, or what level we are playing in division wise unless we got promoted then the lazy gits would want even more for no commitment to the cause, hang on according to some (won't name her) you can not blame the players it's the fans fault that we are where we are not the lazy gutless over paid etc etc etc.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It's not going to make it any worse no, however we will just be having the same conversations about the new manager next season, sack'em then have the same discussions the season after that, and so on. So what's the point? If we are resigned to getting relegated why not stick with AT and let him and the young players learn this season so that next season they have had a season's experience, ready for a promotion charge.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
You would think that they have relegation clauses in their new contracts which reduces their pay on relegation - you would think that would be reason enough to try your hardest to stay in the league.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
There is the possibility that a new manager could drive the team to get better results, thus avoiding relegation.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
a very slim possibility, but most probably not.....:thinking about:
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's all well and fine giving Thorn the whole season and next season, but if the tactic remains of two forwards who don't play within 20 yards of each other and then a further 10-15 yard gap to the midfield and no midfielder supporting the attack then what is the point?
What I am saying is, if Thorn is deploying this same tactic week in week out and the tactic doesn't work do we still stick by him? For me, besides everything else going on there is something seriously wrong in our tactics and the way we set out our stall. All season long we have had two forwards who don't play close enough and there's been big gaps between the front two and any supporting midfielder. It doesn't work. It clearly doesn't work. That has to be a tactic. It has to be. Nothing to do with skill levels! Telling a midfielder to support the attack and telling the two strikers to play closer together. Not hard is it?
What I am saying is, if Thorn is deploying this same tactic week in week out and the tactic doesn't work do we still stick by him? For me, besides everything else going on there is something seriously wrong in our tactics and the way we set out our stall. All season long we have had two forwards who don't play close enough and there's been big gaps between the front two and any supporting midfielder. It doesn't work. It clearly doesn't work. That has to be a tactic. It has to be. Nothing to do with skill levels! Telling a midfielder to support the attack and telling the two strikers to play closer together. Not hard is it?
EleanorRigby
New Member
Lot of discussion on Andy Thorn's future here, a lot sympathy towards him and what he has to work worth and some wanting an immediate change. But answer this question. If, as seems likely we get relegated do you think AT will be manager at the start of next season and do you think he should be whether it's SISU in charge or others.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
No it's not hard Otis when you have decent players. King and Juke played well together, King and Eastwood played well together, Juke and Platt play well together. McDonald just doesn't look good enough, and neither does ROD.
Non of the midfielders are willing to make a forward run, which was ok last season as Gunnar would do this (he is still doing it for Cardiff).
Thorn made a lot of changes during the games yesterday trying to stop Southampton playing and make something happen - he changed to a 451/433 after 15 minutes it as still 0-0, he went 4231 and 442 in the second half.
There is something fundamentally wrong, some of which is Thorn's tactics and some of which is the players.
Realistically who is going to come in and replace him other than Carsley? I have no issue with that, but if he's doing such a good job with the kids leaving him there - he and Rioch are developing our future, and as the Youth League Table states they are doing a bloody good job at it.
So then if not Carsley, then who? We don't have a limited budget, we have no budget. The players aren't good enough - it sums it up when 2 lads who only turned 18 in the last couple of weeks look head and shoulders about the senior midfielders. We lack goals and pace. No doubt that Juke, Clingan and Cranie will be sold in January and will probably not be replaced or will be replaced with worse quality players.
There are arguments to and for sacking Thorn, i'm in a quandary at the moment i just can't see it making the significant improvement necessary to pull us up the league. Who would want to come in? It's a lose lose situation? No money, shit players - no chance of wheeling and dealing.
Non of the midfielders are willing to make a forward run, which was ok last season as Gunnar would do this (he is still doing it for Cardiff).
Thorn made a lot of changes during the games yesterday trying to stop Southampton playing and make something happen - he changed to a 451/433 after 15 minutes it as still 0-0, he went 4231 and 442 in the second half.
There is something fundamentally wrong, some of which is Thorn's tactics and some of which is the players.
Realistically who is going to come in and replace him other than Carsley? I have no issue with that, but if he's doing such a good job with the kids leaving him there - he and Rioch are developing our future, and as the Youth League Table states they are doing a bloody good job at it.
So then if not Carsley, then who? We don't have a limited budget, we have no budget. The players aren't good enough - it sums it up when 2 lads who only turned 18 in the last couple of weeks look head and shoulders about the senior midfielders. We lack goals and pace. No doubt that Juke, Clingan and Cranie will be sold in January and will probably not be replaced or will be replaced with worse quality players.
There are arguments to and for sacking Thorn, i'm in a quandary at the moment i just can't see it making the significant improvement necessary to pull us up the league. Who would want to come in? It's a lose lose situation? No money, shit players - no chance of wheeling and dealing.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Why does playing two forwards together involve them having to be decent? You practice in training and tell them to play closer together. It's not as if it's the forward's natural instinct to go wide is it. Juke drifts wide at times. You just have to work on that in training. Tell them to play more narrow. Absolutely no point in hitting the ball up to Juke in the air for knock downs when there is no-one to knock the ball down to.
Not disagreeing with that rant at all which is why my interest in football in general is seriously on the wane.
In which case does it really matter who we have as manager. I guess you could say if the players are not responsive at all we may as well keep Thorn and not waste money on a big name who will have little or no effect?
kg82
Well-Known Member
Exactly my point. My rant at footballers was in general by the way, not just ours! Thought I'd point that out!
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
We do lack pace but that isn't the biggest thing wrong. Which Southampton player had blistering pace yesterday? Playing at a faster tempo and a change of pace in the way we play can be just as effective.
The problem is nobody supports the strikers from midfield, we play to slow which allows a team to set up to banks of 4 and say go on then try and play through us, which we don't have the quality to do. I see 11 individuals on the pitch, we are not working as a unit.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Managers are paid to make the players responsive, among other things. It's a tough job, especially in this day and age, but it's still something to aspire to when it comes to hiring managers. Why not give somebody like Gregor Rioch a go? He's had success with the youth team, and probably commands the respect of half of the first team who have graduated under his watch.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I think Cody will still come good and many seem to be dismissing him very quickly. Real limited experience at this level and no pre-season. He is learning his trade in a struggling side whilst trying to get fit. I don't think he should be playing regulalry and ideally eased in but we have growing pressure and little options. I'm sure next season we will see the better of him, but it's likely to be in League one which ironically would currently suit him better. He has shown some glimpse (imo) to suggest there is something there for this level. We paid (and are continuing to pay) a lot more to Freddie who many are clammering to see return as if he will somehow start producing. He has had many more chances and also never really done it at this level./ Cody has a comparable lower league record, scored many different types of goals and is younger and hungrier. Give him a chance to flourish because we need him right now - we need everyone right now.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about that very point, I think my wording on a previous post was wrong - i didn't mean decent strikers, I meant compatible strikers.
I don't think juke and Cody are compatible, as soon as platt came on you could see that him and juke played closer to each other and looked like they had some understanding. I think the bottom line is that juke is not a target man and I now think that platt and juke should start together.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Dunno Otis, juke is our top scorer. No one else has more than 1 goal to their name. He scored and was influential in the second goal, however lucky it was.
Cody may be a goal scorer but has only proven it in one season league 2. I think juke and platt have only started twice together all season.
Cody may be a goal scorer but has only proven it in one season league 2. I think juke and platt have only started twice together all season.