Grendel
Well-Known Member
Thank god there are a few sensible posters on here who know how football works.
Thank god there are a few sensible posters on here who know how football works.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I didn't imagine anything. I misread and put my hands up to it immediately. As for the sell on clause I admited I didn't understand it and thanked the person who gave the straight informative answer while Grendull was trying to make out that football economics is part of the national curriculum and I was therefore an idiot.
You should try reading yourself instead of steaming in. You and grendull talked complete bollocks last night about the positive effect of playing in front of a crowd like at the Crewe game. Yes we had some good wins at Sixfields, no one said otherwise. But to suggest that the team from that season playing to the standard they were (before Clarke went, Callum got injured and Mousa went on strike anyway) wouldn't have benefited from being at the Ricoh with a sizable crowd behind them is nonsense. There were marginal draws and losses at Sixfields and last Tuesday everytime Crewe pulled one back the crowd got straight behind the team and urged them on and as acknowledged by TM himself made the difference and we got all three points.
You and grendull might be able to fool yourselves differently but I suspect that you are on your own.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Only no one suggested we should have got £20M for him. I myself suggested £5M plus add ons. He was worth that all day long for the attributes he'd already displayed without taking into consideration his potential. Anybody with half a brain could see he was going to tear up the championship.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
His final comment is spot on.
Your final comment is absurd. It suggests you know more than the scouts of 21 championship clubs and all the premiere league clubs - none of whom were prepared to match the value placed on him - which you suggest is undercutting his value at the time.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
Not at the time he wasn't you dope.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You keep denying it if it makes you feel better. You want to try reading what you were posting about the Sixfields atmosphere last night before you accuse anyone of being absurd. I don't know what you and Nick were taking or drinking but it definitely detached you from reality.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I never said the atmosphere - I said statistical correlation and you don't understand what I am saying do you?
As for the Wilson thing tell me if he was so cheap why no one offered more.
According to you anyone not signing him at that price has less than half a brain.
So your knowledge is better than all the premier league clubs and 95% of championship clubs - ok then.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
The difference might have been the dawn of realisation that the crowds were not coming, income was greatly reduced & money had to be found from somewhere..."now what do we have to sell?"
...onwards & upwards PUSB
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not at the time he wasn't what? Displaying the attributes that made it clear he'd tear up the championship? I suggest you go back and look at his performances for us if that's what you mean. Not just when we had Clarke playing along side him but also after he regained match fitness when coming back from injury after Clarke had gone and Mousa had signed himself of sick. He was heads and tails above any player playing in the same roll in league one band I would even be bold enough to suggest in the championship at that time. He's a class act and always has been. We didn't get a class act price though. Why people choose to be in denial about that is staggering.
Nick
Administrator
I posted that it was fact we got good results there and there was no proof they would have been better at the ricoh. What is incorrect about it?
I didn't claim anything about the atmosphere or attendances.
You are the one who is able to time travel and predict things as fact that didn't happen and we have no way of knowing.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You said statistical correlation PROVED ME WRONG. That last bit again PROVED ME WRONG. Conveniently missed of the last bit.
The reason Wilson was so cheap is obvious and also why you won't admit it. Because other clubs know that we have owners who will undersell players.
No. Anyone selling him for that price or backs our owners in insisting that it was a good deal has half a brain. Anyone buying him for that price understands the sellers well enough to take the piss and get a bargain.
So the premier league club's didn't come knocking. So what. They don't get it right everytime. He wouldn't be the first top class player to take a longer root to the top and he won't be the last. Likewise how many players get signed by premier league clubs from the lower leagues and never live up to the expectation and hype?
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
You are a ret.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I'll try asking you again then.
Did the atmosphere at the Ricoh at the Crewe game make a difference like Tony Mowbray said on CWR after the match? Yes or no?
Did SP ever get the opportunity to say the same at Sixfields? Yes or no?
Nick
Administrator
Nobody has said he wasn't good for us at the time.
If he was heads and tails above any other striker in League One, why did he not have the best goals per game that season in our league? Again, just using facts.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Very intellectual reply. Care to argue the point or is name calling all you have?
Nick
Administrator
So because Mowbray said it helped 1 game it means it would have helped for the whole season as a fact at the Ricoh? Strange how he is now the messiah of truth, just after you didn't seem to agree with him about branding up the club or really rate him. I guess if he says 1 thing you can somehow twist and time travel with to try and make speculation a fact you will roll with him now.
Funny that, I can't remember it helping much last season (apart from maybe Peterborough) or when we lost to Crewe in the JPT.
I will ask you this, do you have any factual proof our results would have been better at the Ricoh?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What was the total period he was out injured for and how long did it take him to get match fit again? Once match fit what was his record like then? Are you saying he has no other attributes other than putting the goal in the back of the net? Possibly explains why we have a different valuation of him at the time of his transfer. I noticed he has other attributes you just think he's a poacher.
Nick
Administrator
That is why I quoted goals per game rather than overall goals?
Paddy Madden had a better scoring record the season before, what's he up to nowadays without using time machines?
With strikers people tend to use goals scored as a stat, that is not me saying he isn't quick or strong now either. Just using actual facts.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
When have I said I don't agree with him branding the club. I along with others were the first to suggest something should be done in the tunnel when we saw pictures of the wasps branding and got mocked for it. Just because I said I can't see the point of covering up the smaller wasps badges around the pitch edge that you barely notice when there are two fkin huge ones mounted above the stand that will still hit you square in the face doesn't mean I don't and haven't backed TM I'm what he's done at Ryton and elsewhere. I was talking about one specific set of wasps badges not everything that's been done as whole and the fact that you're trying to twist it into something else in a lame effort to discredit me is only further proof of the bollocks you've been talking on this thread.
Nick
Administrator
I have been talking facts though? I am not using hindsight or what ifs with comments.
Ill ask again, do you have any factual proof our results would have been better?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How did Paddy Madden get on in the championship? Is he playing in the premier league and scoring goals now? That example is just further evidence that statistics don't tell you the whole story. You're not exactly helping your argument with that one.
Nick
Administrator
No, I was talking about in League One. You are forgetting we don't all have time machines so we can't see into the future from that year he hammered League One to predict in the future.
The fact he has gone on to do nothing was actually my point because it was 1 season so we couldn't predict as we don't have the ability to see into the future.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Oh. And like I said. Once match fit. He did have to play some games before getting match fit and start firing on all cylinders again. Statistics never tell you the whole story on their own.
Nick
Administrator
Because no other players have injuries or drops in form? That is why I was quoting goals per game as that takes into considering match fitness and injuries (as if they have played less games, they will be less match fit won't they?)
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We do have the ability though (if we choose to use it) to see potential. Paddy Madden has clearly reached his limit in league one. He's a decent league one player no doubting that but the statistics you take as gospel show not only is he not as good as Wilson he also possibly over achieved in Yeovil's promotion season as did Yeovil full stop.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
It's all I have. Everyone else in the thread has explained to you that a player with one good season in league one being sold for £3million plus a sell on clause is a good deal.
Nick
Administrator
Yes exactly, statistics AFTER that point which would have meant seeing into the future.
I am talking at the end of a good season when you can't 100% predict what will happen next season aren't I? My point is what we knew at that point in time and not now...
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
One name for you. Alex Oxlade Chamberlain. I guess Arsenal over paid by £9M.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That's why I say we have the ability to see potential.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No they thought he was worth that - they paid that to secure his services,
No one thought Wilson was worth more than what Bournmouth paid - or they would have made a higher bid.
Nick
Administrator
How many with potential fulfil compared to those that don't though?
Look at people who were raving about Ryan Haynes, now he can't get into the team because of a "Forest Green Reject".
How many have potential when signed as kids go on to make it?
Fair play to Wilson, I bet he has exceeded any expection and taken his chances and done well.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's pointless - what he and astute refuse to acknowledge is that no football club valued him more than Bournmouth.
That was therefore his value at the time - the end.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again you're countering your own argument. Chris Stokes was clearly undervalued or we would never have got him on trial in the first place and then signed him on a free. He is to us what Wilson is to Bournemouth. Were laughing that we picked him up as cheap as we did as I would imagine so are Bournemouth, given that he was a key player for them in gaining premier league status and it's already clear that if Bournemouth defy the odds and maintain that status that is going to be to a large part down to Wilson.
Same as us. If we can get a top six finish or even better that's going to be in part because of a player we signed under his true value.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
How can you even compare the two? You are actually simple.