WW2. War started for Britain on this day. (1 Viewer)

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NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
I'd be all for History being mandatory but hey, I'd also insist on all Thomas Hardy literature being burned, and people being taught why he was a very, very bad poet indeed.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
I'd be all for History being mandatory but hey, I'd also insist on all Thomas Hardy literature being burned, and people being taught why he was a very, very bad poet indeed.
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You’ve just given me nightmare flashbacks to ‘Far From the Madding Crowd’ as our GCSE text.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I never claimed it was mandatory. I claimed it was actively taught, which it is. Also outside of English and Maths, most of the other subjects are optional at GCSE. Personally I think more science should also be mandatory, it isn’t. C’est la vie.

All school kids will be studying History up to the age of 13/14 at least meaning that they will do some study of empire in that time and the 300,000 taking it to GCSE will do even more. The exam boards also have to get their specifications signed off by Ofqual. If we were so ashamed of our imperial past, the regulator could force them to take it off the spec. They don’t.
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I never claimed that it wasn’t being taught just that the negatives weren’t being mandatorily taught. Slavery being the obvious example, taught about the abolition not the negative or long term effects. Just a pat on the back for finally doing the right thing. Again, we have a government who has categorically ruled out teaching the negatives while actively promoting the teaching of the “positives”.

And it’s important because it shapes attitudes. For example, one of the aspects of colonialism in India that as a country like to pat ourselves on the back for is “gifting” them a rail service. Very few people acknowledges or are even aware that they were built with forced labour with the sole purpose of making it easier to transport the resources that we were pillaging to port.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Some of the negatives of German kids being taught that their nation was dreadful show with their unwillingness to show patriotism and their general unease when it comes to their flag .. despite a small period , Germany as a country has much to be proud of Screenshot_20230907_123406_Chrome.jpg

It's never a good idea to hammer home that you're ashamed of your country
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I never claimed that it wasn’t being taught just that the negatives weren’t being mandatorily taught. Slavery being the obvious example, taught about the abolition not the negative or long term effects. Just a pat on the back for finally doing the right thing. Again, we have a government who has categorically ruled out teaching the negatives while actively promoting the teaching of the “positives”.

And it’s important because it shapes attitudes. For example, one of the aspects of colonialism in India that as a country like to pat ourselves on the back for is “gifting” them a rail service. Very few people acknowledges or are even aware that they were built with forced labour with the sole purpose of making it easier to transport the resources that we were pillaging to port.
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of course people are aware forced labour was used
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Is that what the German curriculum teaches?
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Doubtful they are directly taught that as that's just stupid , but it's a consequence of being told the bad things your country did for many many years , what they have been taught has created a situation of unease over basic things like celebration and patriotism
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Doubtful they are directly taught that as that's just stupid , but it's a consequence of being told the bad things your country did for many many years , what they have been taught has created a situation of unease over basic things like celebration and patriotism
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How has it harmed Germany?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
I think it's less than during WW2 tbf
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Still is more extreme than here I would say

Again though the arguments entirely different. You’d need to know how colonialism and Bismark foreign policy is taught and not the rise of Nazi Germany to have a comparison
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Can you imagine if 19% of brits voted for Britain first .. that's where Germany is right now
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
I studied WW2 predominantly throughout years 7-9, and little bits of the Civil Wars and Industrial Revolution then rise of Nazi Germany and policies throughout 10/11 - threw in USA and isolationism’s

in A-Level, it was again Rise of Nazi Germany, The Plague, WW1, our Welfare Stare and the American Civil War & The Napoleonic War.

You’d struggle to find anything nowadays in the curriculum that breaches onto India, The Troubles, our role in the slave trade (apart from abolishing it) I’ve had to research that myself.

schools are big on promoting “Germany Bad guys” though

I’m a big believer of adding the empire to the curriculum - it’s possibly the biggest world event in terms of innovation and development, but you need to understand how the world got there… this includes the negative sides
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Still is more extreme than here I would say

Again though the arguments entirely different. You’d need to know how colonialism and Bismark foreign policy is taught and not the rise of Nazi Germany to have a comparison
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There is also a slight difference in half the country having been under communist rule for a good 40 years and the resulting economic hangover arising from that.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Can you imagine if 19% of brits voted for Britain first .. that's where Germany is right now
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Don’t think you’ve got to vote BF to align yourself with the far right in Germany. You’re average Tory MP including cabinet members past and present do a good job of parroting a lot of what is said by the far right in Germany.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Don’t think you’ve got to vote BF to align yourself with the far right in Germany. You’re average Tory MP including cabinet members past and present do a good job of parroting a lot of what is said by the far right in Germany.
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Are they the same people you voted for Tony?
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Some of the negatives of German kids being taught that their nation was dreadful show with their unwillingness to show patriotism and their general unease when it comes to their flag .. despite a small period , Germany as a country has much to be proud of View attachment 31788

It's never a good idea to hammer home that you're ashamed of your country
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It's not, but it's arguably worse to hammer home that your country is amazing and always right. Otherwise you end up like America.
 
robbiekeane

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I studied WW2 predominantly throughout years 7-9, and little bits of the Civil Wars and Industrial Revolution then rise of Nazi Germany and policies throughout 10/11 - threw in USA and isolationism’s

in A-Level, it was again Rise of Nazi Germany, The Plague, WW1, our Welfare Stare and the American Civil War & The Napoleonic War.

You’d struggle to find anything nowadays in the curriculum that breaches onto India, The Troubles, our role in the slave trade (apart from abolishing it) I’ve had to research that myself.

schools are big on promoting “Germany Bad guys” though

I’m a big believer of adding the empire to the curriculum - it’s possibly the biggest world event in terms of innovation and development, but you need to understand how the world got there… this includes the negative sides
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Exactly what I learnt up to GCSE and A level. I think we did a lot of the old monarchs aswell for some reason
 
Terry_dactyl

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Some of the negatives of German kids being taught that their nation was dreadful show with their unwillingness to show patriotism and their general unease when it comes to their flag .. despite a small period , Germany as a country has much to be proud of View attachment 31788

It's never a good idea to hammer home that you're ashamed of your country
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I think there’s a lot of people in Britain who are brought up to feel the same way about the British flag.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Terry_dactyl said:
I think there’s a lot of people in Britain who are brought up to feel the same way about the British flag.
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I don’t necessarily agree with nationalism or being ashamed of your country. Its just a piece of cloth at the end of the day.

proud of what your family or friends have done. But generally most of the achievements good or bad are off the back of someone who profited from it
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I think a lot of people just don’t think that the St George cross represents them. It’s a Christian flag for starters and the majority of the country isn’t Christian, almost 40% at the last census claimed to not be religious at all.
 
Terry_dactyl

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I don’t necessarily agree with nationalism or being ashamed of your country. Its just a piece of cloth at the end of the day.

proud of what your family or friends have done. But generally most of the achievements good or bad are off the back of someone who profited from it
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An English friend of mine - we both live in Wales - explained how she felt about being English. She said, “being English is not about thinking you’re better than everyone else, it’s knowing it”. This was not supposed to be a good thing.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I don’t necessarily agree with nationalism or being ashamed of your country. Its just a piece of cloth at the end of the day.

proud of what your family or friends have done. But generally most of the achievements good or bad are off the back of someone who profited from it
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I disagree. I think National identity is important and having a semblance of pride in your country is a good thing. We lose that and I think things could unravel quite quickly

skybluetony176 said:
I think a lot of people just don’t think that the St George cross represents them. It’s a Christian flag for starters and the majority of the country isn’t Christian, almost 40% at the last census claimed to not be religious at all.
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Whether we’re religious or not, the country was built on Christian values. You could say over time these became British values. I wouldn't class myself as religious but I think if we lose those then we’ll be a worse country for it
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Terry_dactyl said:
An English friend of mine - we both live in Wales - explained how she felt about being English. She said, “being English is not about thinking you’re better than everyone else, it’s knowing it”. This was not supposed to be a good thing.
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Bit embarrassing and it’s people like her which lead people to think we’re like that as a country, which we’re not at all.
 
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