ACL make a bid for CCFC Ltd (2 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

Don't forget, ACL are an £8m business, if which the football club represents less than 20%.

.

How much of that £8million business is down to food/drink/advertising/sponsorship associated with the football club?

Don't think that the apparent £125 million deal with Compass is based on a couple of concerts a year.

 

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[bigfatronssba]

They are the only four (assuming ACL is one) that I know of at the moment.

Well done on the Thursday forum for keeping it balanced, controlled, and allowing a decent Q and A session. Unfortunately Fisher wasn't too revealing with his answers but that isn't your fault!

Didnt get to hear tonights forum so can't comment on that!

 

[James Smith]

I can also two reasons for doing this: one is as someone has already alluded to it is for information purposes
Or
Two because they already have a bidder for ACL lined up (along possibly with the Golden Share) and having the lease in Ltd makes the sale easier.

If it helps gets rid of SISU then this is good news.

 

[covmark]

Stuart do you think that this is all a big bluff to drive up the amount that sisu can recoup, or do you really think they can go through with their plan

 

[SLOnAir]

I can second that.i was there. Stuart. ..What's your view on how these forums went.i dont think fisher got any of his points accross.seems still being in administration is starting to annoy him

I am sure that being in administration is annoying him. It is not a route he wanted to pursue, that much is clear. Whatever you think of his plans, administration has just caused confusion and delay, and may not deliver a change of ownership which, I realise, a lot of people want.

I think the forums have been a useful exercise in allowing people to very clearly express their passion and their opinions. I hope people will consider carefully what was said by Tim Fisher and Steve Brookfield before dismissing everything they said simply because it was them. Not saying anyone should necessarily agree with them, but just weigh it all up in a considered fashion.

Difficult, I know, when the future of the football club you love is at stake, but - much as we would all love to turn the clock back - only Dr Who can do that, and unfortunately he is not here to help.

 

[SLOnAir]

Stuart do you think that this is all a big bluff to drive up the amount that sisu can recoup, or do you really think they can go through with their plan

I think anyone who does not take them seriously is making a big mistake.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How much of that £8million business is down to food/drink/advertising/sponsorship associated with the football club?

Don't think that the apparent £125 million deal with Compass is based on a couple of concerts a year.

What difference would it make if it were all owned by the same entity?

 

[SLOnAir]

Right chaps - way past my bedtime. I keep hoping I'll wake up and this has all been a ghastly nightmare, but that only happened to Bobby Ewing in Dallas, didn't it?

Goodnight all.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

fecking hell PKWH, is that you?

What do you mean? Have I tied balloons onto the wrong car?

 

[torchomatic]

A rent they got away with because back in 2005 they had us over a barrel thanks to the fuck-ups of Richardson et al.

Preferable to Sisu.

A rent they were able to get away with because CCFC was so badly run?

 

[intercity]

Have we hit rock bottom yet?

 

[Delboycov]

Thank you, but I haven't set out to change opinions of me. My concern has been to try and hear opinions, from all sides, of what the heck is happening to Coventry City Football Club.

I have to say Stuart that as someone that has been rather critical of what I percieved to be a far from balanced handling of the situation by you, in the forum I heard on the radio on Thursday and the one I was present at tonight I thought you were very professional and beyond question impartial. Fair play to you as well for compering for free tonight. I said earler that shouting out from the audience and heckling doesn't help to get the answers we all want...but I have to say having experienced it myself tonight how frustrating TF was in not giving a straight answer or on several occasions just blatantly ignoring questions. I found myself shouting out on several occasions and I guess it wasn't easy for you to compere something like that but it did show how angry the majority present feel about our opposition to this move and I hope TF does convey that to JS and they have a rethink...

 

[lordsummerisle]

What difference would it make if it were all owned by the same entity?

It wouldn't, but a little disingenuous to use the "CCFC" only 20% of turnover" argument when they aren't.

One thing that a bid from ACL(if what Stuart Linnell's sources have said is true), may show is that they do need the club there, despite the cloud-cuckoo land talk of many of Rugby clubs moving in(from outside their town, the horror!), and year round outdoor concerts that will replace the club if isn't there.

 

[intercity]

Right chaps - way past my bedtime. I keep hoping I'll wake up and this has all been a ghastly nightmare, but that only happened to Bobby Ewing in Dallas, didn't it?

Goodnight all.

stu its not even 10.30 yet

 

[stupot07]

How much of that £8million business is down to food/drink/advertising/sponsorship associated with the football club?

Don't think that the apparent £125 million deal with Compass is based on a couple of concerts a year.

£7.8m income

£1.2m from ccfc rent
£230-260k match day costs (£10k per match)
£1.0m match day F&B income (76%? - £760k)

= roughly £2.2m (28%)income that's before sponsorship etc.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

A rent they got away with because back in 2005 they had us over a barrel thanks to the fuck-ups of Richardson et al.

This is what you wanted changed your mind already? thought you'd be very happy:claping hands:

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It wouldn't, but a little disingenuous to use the "CCFC" only 20% of turnover" argument when they aren't.

One thing that a bid from ACL(if what Stuart Linnell's sources have said is true), may show is that they do need the club there, despite the cloud-cuckoo land talk of many of Rugby clubs moving in(from outside their town, the horror!), and year round outdoor concerts that will replace the club if isn't there.

I used the word only, not to diminish the club's role within ACL's finances; to to highlight the vast balance that sits outside of the club's clutches that would be appropriate to turnover - and therefore FFP - of a body controlling all. In that context, I'm sure you can do nothing but agree with me?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

£7.8m income

£1.2m from ccfc rent
£230-260k match day costs (£10k per match)
£1.0m match day F&B income (76%? - £760k)

= roughly £2.2m (28%)income that's before sponsorship etc.

Again, look at the context in which I made the comment

 

[torchomatic]

Fuck me! ACL, can't think of anything worse, unless they sell it on immediately to someone else.

This is what you wanted changed your mind already? thought you'd be very happy:claping hands:

 

[stupot07]

Again, look at the context in which I made the comment

Yes you said it on terms of FFP. Just can't see how they can afford to buy it and they would struggle with running costs.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I used the word only, not to diminish the club's role within ACL's finances; to to highlight the vast balance that sits outside of the club's clutches that would be appropriate to turnover - and therefore FFP - of a body controlling all. In that context, I'm sure you can so nothing but agree with me?

You may have done so in this case, and obviously it would work for FFP, whether club owning Ricoh/ACL or vice-versa, but the same argument has been used many times to belittle the impact that the club does have overall on ACL profitablity(or otherwise).

I believe it was you who mooted Northampton moving in to the Ricoh previously? Many others have suggested that without the club they could make more money having huge open-air concerts year round without the football to get in the way.


Both arguments flawed in the extreme.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Yes you said it on terms of FFP. Just can't see how they can afford to buy it and they would struggle with running costs.

Indeed. The indirect benefits you list currently sit outside on club turnover, and it would be appropriate to FFP on a harmonised entity.

I can't see them affording it either; not without investment, joint venture, or succession plan. However, if either if the latter was with a view to a take over of the entirety of ACL's portfolio; it could be very useful

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You may have done so in this case, and obviously it would work for FFP, whether club owning Ricoh/ACL or vice-versa, but the same argument has been used many times to belittle the impact that the club does have overall on ACL profitablity(or otherwise).

I believe it was you who mooted Northampton moving in to the Ricoh previously? Many others have suggested that without the club they could make more money having huge open-air concerts year round without the football to get in the way.


Both arguments flawed in the extreme.

What I stated was that with a rental as low as some people were demanding, it was presumed ACL would have to bow down to pressure from the club as noone else would wish to use a football pitch, and therefore they were over a barrel. I did mention the Saints, yes, by means of example; as they could use it for their European games. Or big fixtures such as Leicester. If the rent was driven so low by Fisher, I was trying to point out that 5 rugby games per season, could match the same renenue as 20-odd football games.

I did also add the caveat that it was only an example, and that it might be dancing horses for all I care

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That would be catastrophic how the hell is that "good news"

They then sell to one of the other parties rather than run the club

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Fuck me! ACL, can't think of anything worse, unless they sell it on immediately to someone else.

Didnt you want the club and Acl together? Well you could have your wish. But its not as though though:guitar2:

 

[Tabasco Kid]

stu its not even 10.30 yet

To be fair, the man is presenting the breakfast show on Radio Northampton tomorrow. And hes getting on a bit.

 

[Noggin]

So you think sisu would agree to this then?

What difference does that make to your assertion that if ACL brought limited that there would be no question we'd be liquidated in 6 months? which was the statement I was saying was utterly ridiculous.

 

[lordsummerisle]

You could almost say that it is part of a long, drawn-out plan to "distress" the club by charging unaffordable levels of rent in order to get the club on the cheap?

I wouldn't myself, but pretty much a mirror image of the club "distressing" ACL in order to get them on the cheap bandied about regularly.

 

[sw88]

I am sure that being in administration is annoying him. It is not a route he wanted to pursue, that much is clear. Whatever you think of his plans, administration has just caused confusion and delay, and may not deliver a change of ownership which, I realise, a lot of people want.

I think the forums have been a useful exercise in allowing people to very clearly express their passion and their opinions. I hope people will consider carefully what was said by Tim Fisher and Steve Brookfield before dismissing everything they said simply because it was them. Not saying anyone should necessarily agree with them, but just weigh it all up in a considered fashion.

Difficult, I know, when the future of the football club you love is at stake, but - much as we would all love to turn the clock back - only Dr Who can do that, and unfortunately he is not here to help.

I too to a degree think they have been useful. We may not like the answers given, but at least we're getting answers.

In truth, were fans going to like everything Fisher said? If that was going to happen, then the forums would have been a pointless exercise for involved.

Thanks to CWR for covering last weeks forums!

 

[wingy]

£7.8m income

£1.2m from ccfc rent
£230-260k match day costs (£10k per match)
£1.0m match day F&B income (76%? - £760k)

= roughly £2.2m (28%)income that's before sponsorship etc.

What is omitted is that Compass have a 50/50 share in the running and therefore Turnover making £15.6M. turnover and clubs input is then 14%. maybe Compass can fund this operation .

 

[stupot07]

What is omitted is that Compass have a 50/50 share in the running and therefore Turnover making £15.6M. turnover and clubs input is then 14%. maybe Compass can fund this operation .

I thought compass only had 23-24% of the business, and that was only running events, conferences and f&b's?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Are you for real?

The greedy filth will set their own rent to new buyers. The club needs to be owned independently and ACL absorbed at no cost.

It's morons like you who bend over and demand more pain from the council who have helped create the mess.

If we were bought by ACL we would be liquidated in 6 months no question.

Resorting to calling someone you've never met a moron.

Hmmmm what a nice person you are.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I thought compass only had 23-24% of the business, and that was only running events, conferences and f&b's?

And it doesn't make it £15.6million unless Wingy is doubling the CCFC income?

Which would then give the same percentage as you did previously!

 

[Jack Griffin]

Fuck me! ACL, can't think of anything worse, unless they sell it on immediately to someone else.

They must have financial backers, they haven't the money to do it themselves.

 

[Grendel]

What difference does that make to your assertion that if ACL brought limited that there would be no question we'd be liquidated in 6 months? which was the statement I was saying was utterly ridiculous.

If ACL bought the club this would be for two reasons;

One - to stop a rival bidder taking over and trying to dictate terms of the lease. This would be to avoid a new company buying and demanding a low rent and control of ACL. They would worry that this new company would have public support (though Sky Blue John clearly doesn't want a low rent -- he wants the council to keep shafting us but he is a fool as we all know) so they could buy and try and sell with a high lease. Will fail as no one will be interested especially as the football club will fail a volunatary CVA and be minus 15 points at kick off

They will try and run the club themselves. They would have no means of loaning the club the type of money needed to fund it to be anywhere near competitive. The wage budget would be tiny and the history of council owned institutions making a commercial success of anything is at best dubious. ACL would have folded years ago without the rent from the club and would have last year but for the council loan arrangement.

It is bizarre that some people seem excited at this prospect given other potential suitors. Actually its not bizarre just typical of some of the people on here.