ACL to allow CCFC Ltd to play for free! (1 Viewer)

[Sky Blue Kid]

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 1h #ACL tells me Ricoh rent free offer doesn't exclude Holdings as "would be for administrator to decide."They confirm it's only if co in admin




Lets hope this clears things up!....ACL are NOT making this offer only for Ltd.

 

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[Sick Boy]

I thought that the statement said that they will allow CCFC Ltd to play for free whilst the company is in administration? It isn't a whole season?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Can't submit accounts until they come out of administration.

CCFC Ltd is insolvent and auditors cant sign off because of that

The Football League will not award the share until the club (CCFC Ltd) is out of administration. Without the right to play in the FL the "club" is not a going concern and CCFC H has no right to the share as yet (if ever). So the auditors can not sign off those accounts either.

If the auditors cant sign off CCFC Ltd or CCFC H then they can not sign off Otium or SBS&L either because it is a group situation

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Coming soon from Singers Corner:

"We'll play here for free, We'll play here for free, We're Coventry City, We'll play here for free"

 

[ajsccfc]

It's possible ACL got the wrong idea with that 'not one penny more' thing.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Precisely the opposite in fact.

If the club remains in admin there is no chance of Holdings / ACL agreeing a deal because ACL will not negotiate directly with Holdings. At the moment CCFC LTD / the administrator is the only party ACL will tak to. LTD has no players, manager etc. It is not a club and would not be granted the golden share in its current state.

If the club is united and taken out of admin by SISU a deal could be struck with ACL as they would then have to recognise SISU as owners again.

At the moment Holdings / SISU is running the club and hold all the cards as they are in the best position to field a team. Despite ACL's PR spin to the contrary.

Uniting the club as quickly as possible provides the best opportunity to negotiate a new Ricoh deal.

I agree there, so long as it isn't under SISU control, because they're the party that have consistently refused to agree deals.

 

[skybluegaz2]

I agree there, so long as it isn't under SISU control, because they're the party that have consistently refused to agree deals.

Hear hear ! ACL will rightly NEVER deal with SISU. Get SISU out and ACL will rapidly do a deal with new owners.

 

[You'll Never Beat McPake]

Does that mean that we fans get in for free also

 

[Leamington Pete]

A very clever PR stunt and not much else. If we'd been in admin at the start of the season we were buggered as a ground share couldn't be sanctioned. ACL now say "no problem, you can always play here", but it won't happen cos we'll be out of admin with SISU blundering on with their master plan.

 

[oldskyblue58]

If ACL have bid for CCFC Ltd then they have to show that they are willing to have CCFC Ltd play there. What they have done is put pressure on PA & Football League and at same time take a little wind out of TF's sails. Yes there is PR to it but there is more than that

 

[fernandopartridge]

A very clever PR stunt and not much else. If we'd been in admin at the start of the season we were buggered as a ground share couldn't be sanctioned. ACL now say "no problem, you can always play here", but it won't happen cos we'll be out of admin with SISU blundering on with their master plan.

Clever PR stunt for whom?

 

[fernandopartridge]

If ACL have bid for CCFC Ltd then they have to show that they are willing to have CCFC Ltd play there. What they have done is put pressure on PA & Football League and at same time take a little wind out of TF's sails. Yes there is PR to it but there is more than that

It's calling TF's bluff but like you say, also trying to demonstrate that ACL is acting in the best interests of the club.

 

[wingy]

Can't submit accounts until they come out of administration.

CCFC Ltd is insolvent and auditors cant sign off because of that

The Football League will not award the share until the club (CCFC Ltd) is out of administration. Without the right to play in the FL the "club" is not a going concern and CCFC H has no right to the share as yet (if ever). So the auditors can not sign off those accounts either.

If the auditors cant sign off CCFC Ltd or CCFC H then they can not sign off Otium or SBS&L either because it is a group situation

OSB ,will the audit take an eternity given that the company has undergone a Yin/Yan transformation? Also would there be a cogent reason that Otium flashed up briefly in the companies house horror list .

 

[fernandopartridge]

This company that are conspiring with the council to get rid of SISU. Offer them the chance to play at the Ricoh rent free after offering them 400k rent.

Not to sure Tim's idea of SISU bashing people around court rooms will hold up

The Judicial Review is about State Aid. As far as I see it, nothing that has happened now would be heard in Court. It blows nothing out of the water.

 

[theferret]

It's calling TF's bluff but like you say, also trying to demonstrate that ACL is acting in the best interests of the club.

It is the spin that grates. The emotional claptrap they wrap it all up in - this nonsense about the suffering of the fans.

It is a commercial decision. There are stakeholders with multi-million pound contracts in place that would want a football club/anchor tenant to remain. Not only that, but the fees they will charge to cover costs and income from parking will provide them with turnover and cashflow. These factors are very important, certainly they would want to avoid making redundancies and having money flow through the business at regular intervals certainly helps with that.

I am glad they have said it (providing they clarify the offer will be open to SISU if they regain full control), but let's not pretend this is some sort of goodwill gesture, because it isn't - the truth is they don't really have any choice.

 

[Ddccfc]

I sorry mate but where do you get your information from ? Paul Appleton the administrator is running the football club, Fisher is ceo of Holdings, that is not the football club. You will find as i suspect if we kick-off August the 3rd still in administration it will be Appleton and Appleton alone who the football league deal with.

I get my information the same place as everyone else. The difference is that I take it all in, assess it objectively and present a balanced view based on the facts.

I don't just read everything and go straight to SISU / ACL are
Evil mode.

The problem is 90% of football fans and the public (like you) would have difficulty following this situation. If you can't fully understand and objectively process information, maybe you should not say anything rather than posting pointless replies.

 

[dongonzalos]

The Judicial Review is about State Aid. As far as I see it, nothing that has happened now would be heard in Court. It blows nothing out of the water.

“The council have lost control of the situation and will do anything they can to stop the club moving on. The judicial review is very clear. The claimant says that the defendants worked against the best interests of the club, worked in bad faith, tried to wrest control of the club.”

I thought like you, it was just about state money however Mr Fisher sees it differently.

As a result of the deal ACL were able to offer SISU more variable terms the 400 k deal plus 80% of beverages to allow SISU to carry on in control of the club.

They are now offering the football club rent free use of the Ricoh again they could not do this without that original deal.

The decision is whether their is justification for a Judicial review.

Mr Fisher is arguing that the deal was done to wrestle control of the club.

If so why not, not offer SISU the 400k offer.

Also why not allow him to follow his crazy plan and pay rent elsewhere instead of making such a generous offer. Is that working against the best interests of the club? ' play here for free'

I will be surprised if it was decided that a judicial review is appropriate

 

[James Smith]

Shame they hadn't have done something a little fairer back in 2005. Things may not be so desperate now.

There's a flip side to that coin, shame SISU/CCFC apparently never asked if the rent could be negotiated until after we got relegated.

 

[wingy]

The Review is a Gagg while he's thrown all his spin around . The ACL bid confirms their judgement of the review procedure will be positive to them as this is compounding the Argument.

 

[Ddccfc]

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics 1h #ACL tells me Ricoh rent free offer doesn't exclude Holdings as "would be for administrator to decide."They confirm it's only if co in admin




Lets hope this clears things up!....ACL are NOT making this offer only for Ltd.

No but they ARE only making it while the club remains in administration!

 

[rupert_bear]

I get my information the same place as everyone else. The difference is that I take it all in, assess it objectively and present a balanced view based on the facts.

I don't just read everything and go straight to SISU / ACL are
Evil mode.

The problem is 90% of football fans and the public (like you) would have difficulty following this situation. If you can't fully understand and objectively process information, maybe you should not say anything rather than posting pointless replies.

It has been said numerous times, including from Fisher that the FL will only deal with Appleton whilst the club is in administration that's it, nothing more to look into. I think it is the law.

 

[torchomatic]

I agree, which is why I blame both parties much to the annoyance of some on here.

There's a flip side to that coin, shame SISU/CCFC apparently never asked if the rent could be negotiated until after we got relegated.

 

[Si80]

No but they ARE only making it while the club remains in administration!

And as Fisher has pointed out, if CCFC is still in administration come the start of the season then they can't action a groundshare as SISU have proposed as the FL won't allow it.

This way at least it means the football team can fulfil their fixtures even if still in admin.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So we can play at the Ricoh for free? Sounds good and looking at all my mates who have E-Mailed, text and called me to let me know about it while I was busy with work when the story was released you have to say that this DOES NOT really put CCFC in better circumstances to which we were last season.. On this basis I think SISU would reject the idea, but it must come down to the decision via PA, if SISU do reject this offer then there will be eyebrows raised. There are pros and cons on both sides of this story..

 

[rupert_bear]

So we can play at the Ricoh for free? Sounds good and looking at all my mates who have E-Mailed, text and called me to let me know about it while I was busy with work when the story was released you have to say that this DOES NOT really put CCFC in better circumstances to which we were last season.. On this basis I think SISU would reject the idea, but it must come down to the decision via PA, if SISU do reject this offer then there will be eyebrows raised. There are pros and cons on both sides of this story..

This is where it gets confusing, who is the offer made to, i think it is Appleton he is who is running ccfc ltd as he did at the back end of last season when he drew up an agreement to play the last three home games at the Ricoh, sisu can only get involved if/when they get control of ltd and they might, but to do that apart from anything else they have to satisfy the FL they have a ground which at the moment they haven't and ths is where things get interesting. The only realistic ground they can have is the Ricoh but the wording from acl is whilst ltd is in admin. So if sisu get control back they are back into a rent agreement saga.

The millstone gets heavier and heavier.

 

[oldskyblue58]

OSB ,will the audit take an eternity given that the company has undergone a Yin/Yan transformation? Also would there be a cogent reason that Otium flashed up briefly in the companies house horror list .

Well in theory if the basis of the accounts has been wrong you would have to go back through the inter company transactions and decide which requires reversing or not before you could sign off the 2012 accounts because the balance of the inter company account between CCFC Ltd and CCFC H at the year end is based on all the transactions to that date. If the point of change is 31/05/11 then it isnt too bad but if it is 1995 then it is going to take time.

The accounts should in theory be restated from the date of the change and if restated then the auditors will have to do audit work on each of the years concerned to be able issue a new audit certificate. That is further complicated that from 1995 to 2007 it was not the same auditors so the current auditors cant express a revised opinion without checking the other auditors work to some degree. So it could take a long time unless they have already done a lot of the work. I think TF's comment of 10 days is optimistic.

What I think TF & Co want to do is to regain CCFC Ltd get the share allocated to CCFC H and liquidate CCFC Ltd without doing accounts. CCFC H has written down to nil any debt it is owed by CCFC Ltd each year so they would argue the change is not going to affect the audit of debtors and assets. All plans forward, forecasts etc then in name of CCFC H with undertakings from SISU to fund it. SISU would still be owed 45m by CCFC H and ARVO still owed their secured money too. So the auditors would need to consider if CCFC H was a going concern, would look at the books and now see everything going through CCFC H. They may qualify the report in some way to cover themselves because of what went on

Will it work? ............ I wouldnt want to be involved but that doesnt mean it wont work............ all the above is really just a guess

Otium couldnt file accounts because it is the immediate holding company of CCFC H & CCFC Ltd and is therefore affected by them.

 

[wingy]

Thank you....

 

[RoboCCFC90]

This is where it gets confusing, who is the offer made to, i think it is Appleton he is who is running ccfc ltd as he did at the back end of last season when he drew up an agreement to play the last three home games at the Ricoh, sisu can only get involved if/when they get control of ltd and they might, but to do that apart from anything else they have to satisfy the FL they have a ground which at the moment they haven't and ths is where things get interesting. The only realistic ground they can have is the Ricoh but the wording from acl is whilst ltd is in admin. So if sisu get control back they are back into a rent agreement saga.

The millstone gets heavier and heavier.

As I said the decision must come down to PA (Paul Appleton) or Michael Appleton as he is known by Stuart Linnel As the administrator of Ltd he is the only one who can make this decision. If SISU get the hands on Ltd after the first game has kicked off do they move the whole club after the fixtures have been agreed and confirmed? Probably not. What then if this agreement is only for while CCFC is Ltd is Admin? If it is an agreement that is only in place for while they are in Admin ACL have SISU by the balls frankly.

It's all a tactical game of Chess each player with a daunting move, putting pressure on the other party to make the slip, at this moment in time ACL are winning, but I have said before SISU won't crawl under a rock and let this go..

 

[Delboycov]

I agree, which is why I blame both parties much to the annoyance of some on here.

I blame both parties Torch but I do believe there are different degrees of blame here and although I do think that the latest twist is just another move in this ever annoying game of PR chess I personally believe TF and SISU to be far more to blame for taking us to the place we're currently at.

 

[wingy]

As I said the decision must come down to PA (Paul Appleton) or Michael Appleton as he is known by Stuart Linnel As the administrator of Ltd he is the only one who can make this decision. If SISU get the hands on Ltd after the first game has kicked off do they move the whole club after the fixtures have been agreed and confirmed? Probably not. What then if this agreement is only for while CCFC is Ltd is Admin? If it is an agreement that is only in place for while they are in Admin ACL have SISU by the balls frankly.

It's all a tactical game of Chess each player with a daunting move, putting pressure on the other party to make the slip, at this moment in time ACL are winning, but I have said before SISU won't crawl under a rock and let this go..

If it brings them a position of strength who knows ,but we have to recognise this is a solution to SISU's problem, they currently have no prospect of moving forward on any level at least as far football goes .their business plans are absolutely precarious ,on the verge of hanging themselves .I seriously doubt there is one option of their own that will produce a ground and therefore satisfaction for the league to permit CCFC's continuance in the FL. However you wish to dress it this is a benign gesture to the team and the fans.

 

[honestken]

Shame they hadn't have done something a little fairer back in 2005. Things may not be so desperate now.

they could have owned the Stadium in 2005 when they first took over but Onye ripped up the contract and said sisu didnt need to buy it until were in the premier league!!

 

[fleebagfisher]

its madness. i dont think sisu will accept this, its a huge gesture by ACL but why? and why now? its an incentive obviously but who is the incentive to? whoever buys ccfc? or sisu? or are the council cock sure they will get the club?? we all know about the handshakes between councils and the FA, maybe there is a little influencing going on.

personally i think ACL are offering this in the hope sisu refuse it, a good bit of PR for ACL. it could back fire though surely? they wanted the club in admin for non payment of rent, now they offer a year rent free: will the court not wonder about that?

the best we can hope for is this situation is a offer of genuine proportions that lead to sisu and ACL negotiating a way forward... do not be surprised at all if the buyers of the club are a joint venture of ACL/the council and SISU. stranger things have happened.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If it brings them a position of strength who knows ,but we have to recognise this is a solution to SISU's problem, they currently have no prospect of moving forward on any level at least as far football goes .their business plans are absolutely precarious ,on the verge of hanging themselves .I seriously doubt there is one option of their own that will produce a ground and therefore satisfaction for the league to permit CCFC's continuance in the FL. However you wish to dress it this is a benign gesture to the team and the fans.

I thought Fisher was meant to have presented his plan to the League already and so should have an answer on the legality of any move? Reminds me a bit of Alex Salmond, pushing for independence from something more beneficial than harmful and willing to chop his nose off to achieve it.

There are other similarities but I shall stop there.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just a thought nothing more ......

what if TF was planning to have used the feed back from the forums to say

"I have listened to the fans, I have approached ACL to discuss playing at the Ricoh" .......... kind of puts the pressure on ACL to talk to CCFC H even while CCFC Ltd in admin. Fans reaction would certainly support TF doing that wouldnt it? ACL would practically have to give it away on TF's terms.

Instead ACL have got in first ....... said yes you can use it but it has to be arranged through the administrator (who currently controls the rights to use the pitch)............ makes ACL look like the ones trying to keep the team in Coventry, puts TF in a weaker position. If he turns down talks he loses more fans faith. If whilst in office PA refuses to be involved it is him stopping the club playing at the Ricoh not ACL

It also says to the FL that the club are not being forced out by ACL

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just a thought nothing more ......

what if TF was planning to have used the feed back from the forums to say

"I have listened to the fans, I have approached ACL to discuss playing at the Ricoh" .......... kind of puts the pressure on ACL to talk to CCFC H even while CCFC Ltd in admin. Fans reaction would certainly support TF doing that wouldnt it? ACL would practically have to give it away on TF's terms.

Instead ACL have got in first ....... said yes you can use it but it has to be arranged through the administrator (who currently controls the rights to use the pitch)............ makes ACL look like the ones trying to keep the team in Coventry, puts TF in a weaker position. If he turns down talks he loses more fans faith. If whilst in office PA refuses to be involved it is him stopping the club playing at the Ricoh not ACL

It also says to the FL that the club are not being forced out by ACL

It's less than 2 months until kick off and we can't sign anyone, we don't know where we're playing, what kit we're playing in and nobody can buy a season ticket.

Do you (or anyone else) think that the cloak and dagger politics and oneupmanship can be shelved so we at least resemble a professional football club?