At which point do you personally switch off CCFC and to what degree? (1 Viewer)

[torchomatic]

It was a bad idea. We were £60M in debt. Especially for those who love the "renting a house" analogy, it was like selling your house to pay off your credit card and then renting another one you couldn't afford...on your credit card.

I don't think the Ricoh was a bad idea on his part-his much bigger failings were tied in with his day to day running of the club which put the stadium out of our reach financially.

 

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[torchomatic]

Why is it a better analogy? West Midlands, Worcestershire. What's the difference? Neither are in Warwickshire.

<p>

In cricket terms it is in Warwickshire. A better analogy would be how many would go and watch them play in Worcestershire?

 

[dongonzalos]

No longer and not for a long time. My point being those that say I would go if the team were in the CV1-3 area but nowhere else are being short-sighted.

1882 it was their home. When did they form?

 

[Moff]

I wish people just did a tiny but if research before throwing this out there

Dont be so hard on yourslef, its never too late for you to start

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was a bad idea. We were £60M in debt. Especially for those who love the "renting a house" analogy, it was like selling your house to pay off your credit card and then renting another one you couldn't afford...on your credit card.

Yet, it could still work in the club's favour if a few people are prepared to eat humble pie and a decent team appears on the pitch.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I wonder how many people moan about going to Edgbaston to see "Warwickshire"?

Try moving it to the other side of Shipston-on-Stour and see how you get along.....

 

[Moff]

Try moving it to the other side of Shipston-on-Stour and see how you get along.....

Wolston, Shipston.......are you doing a grand tour of Warwickshire Villages?
I said you were a carrott cruncher, still they seem to feed your dry wit well!

 

[Grendel]

Yet, it could still work in the club's favour if a few people are prepared to eat humble pie and a decent team appears on the pitch.

Under the original rent agreement it could never have worked. The club started life there with a below average squad in the championship but had to attract 22,000 adults every game just to break even. It was utter madness.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Wolston, Shipston.......are you doing a grand tour of Warwickshire Villages?
I said you were a carrott cruncher, still they seem to feed your dry wit well!

I do like a bit of the country air. 'Tis true

 

[torchomatic]

And the Club asked for a rent reduction after being in the Ricoh for three months. Stupid decisions were made by people in the football club. That is why we are where we are.

Under the original rent agreement it could never have worked. The club started life there with a below average squad in the championship but had to attract 22,000 adults every game just to break even. It was utter madness.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Under the original rent agreement it could never have worked. The club started life there with a below average squad in the championship but had to attract 22,000 adults every game just to break even. It was utter madness.

No, but we have the board members of the time to thank for all of that. My overriding point is that it still could work and need not forever be a colossal weight around the club's neck.

 

[dongonzalos]

Dont be so hard on yourslef, its never too late for you to start

Thanks I will, I also still believe in the tooth fairy Hoffman by the way.

 

[dongonzalos]

And the Club asked for a rent reduction after being in the Ricoh for three months. Stupid decisions were made by people in the football club. That is why we are where we are.

Asked or were offered one and declined?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Under the original rent agreement it could never have worked. The club started life there with a below average squad in the championship but had to attract 22,000 adults every game just to break even. It was utter madness.

Whilst that's true, the difference between where we needed to be and where we were - a 19K average at the time SISU tool over - was 3K shy of the break even of this admittedly crazed plan.

Even that plan could have been squared by closing the gap between crowds and necessity by selling one decent player a year. One Dann/Fox/Best/Bigi, etc.

If tht plan was crazy; what context does that give to the current one?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I don't think the Ricoh was a bad idea on his part

Richardsons original idea was an 80,000 all-seater national stadium....:facepalm:

The bloke was a fucking moron.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Whilst that's true, the difference between where we needed to be and where we were - a 19K average at the time SISU tool over - was 3K shy of the break even of this admittedly crazed plan.

Even that plan could have been squared by closing the gap between crowds and necessity by selling one decent player a year. One Dann/Fox/Best/Bigi, etc.

If tht plan was crazy; what context does that give to the current one?

Just a little over 2 months to go for Thorn to take the Real Madrid post

 

[torchomatic]

It was a crazy plan and never sustainable in a million years. However, Richardson selling HR and then McGinnity/Robinson, etc signing the deal was the catalyst for our current situation. Of course, SISU have made the situation a whole lot worse, but the crux of the matter is still the Ricoh, the rent and ACL.

If tht plan was crazy; what context does that give to the current one?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Richardsons original idea was an 80,000 all-seater national stadium....:facepalm:

The bloke was a fucking moron.

I thought it was 40k with a sliding roof? Agree it was stupidity given the debt he racked up but we can still make the ground work.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No, but we have the board members of the time to thank for all of that. My overriding point is that it still could work and need not forever be a colossal weight around the club's neck.

Don't let SISU off the hook too easily. By completing due diligence they lawfully took responsibility for all agreements entered into my their predecessors.

If the Ricoh deal was so profoundly flawed, it should have been addressed before any take over. Not five years down the line when the club has been reduced to this

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don't let SISU off the hook too easily. By completing due diligence they lawfully took responsibility for all agreements entered into my their predecessors.

If the Ricoh deal was so profoundly flawed, it should have been addressed before any take over. Not five years down the line when the club has been reduced to this

I'm not letting them off in the slightest, but the seeds were most definitely sown by Richardson. SISU could have salted the earth when they took over but instead harvested the crop and sold it at Cov Market at £10m/bundle.

 

[Grendel]

Don't let SISU off the hook too easily. By completing due diligence they lawfully took responsibility for all agreements entered into my their predecessors.

If the Ricoh deal was so profoundly flawed, it should have been addressed before any take over. Not five years down the line when the club has been reduced to this

Maybe so. However it still doesn't mean the arrangement wasn't flawed. It was and it still is.

 

[torchomatic]

And a sliding pitch. I wish I still had the brochure they handed out at HR.

I thought it was 40k with a sliding roof? Agree it was stupidity given the debt he racked up but we can still make the ground work.

 

[sky blue john]

Under the original rent agreement it could never have worked. The club started life there with a below average squad in the championship but had to attract 22,000 adults every game just to break even. It was utter madness.

Even filling Wembley stadium every week with the extra interest and fees on 70-100million of debt would not break us even now !!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And a sliding pitch. I wish I still had the brochure they handed out at HR.

To be fair at least it would get fatty Fleck moving about.

 

[torchomatic]

Can't argue with any of that. Richardson started the ball rolling without doubt. His decision has led directly to where we are today. SISU should have looked at the T&C at the time and walked away or negotiated at the time.

Don't let SISU off the hook too easily. By completing due diligence they lawfully took responsibility for all agreements entered into my their predecessors.

If the Ricoh deal was so profoundly flawed, it should have been addressed before any take over. Not five years down the line when the club has been reduced to this

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It was a crazy plan and never sustainable in a million years. However, Richardson selling HR and then McGinnity/Robinson, etc signing the deal was the catalyst for our current situation. Of course, SISU have made the situation a whole lot worse, but the crux of the matter is still the Ricoh, the rent and ACL.

Well, yes and no. I agree with you on the former.

But your Holy trinity of Ricoh, rent and ACL is easily trumped by relegation and 9K people off the gates since SISU arrived. Just the gate loss equates to some £5m per season; which exceeds your choices.

The crux of the matter? SISU's maladministration. From serial ineptitude from chairmen to Fisher's duplicitous demeanour and disingenuous ways. And other things beginning with a 'd' I can't think of

 

[torchomatic]

To be fair I don't think it was 80,000. But I agree he was a fucking moron.

Richardsons original idea was an 80,000 all-seater national stadium....:facepalm:

The bloke was a fucking moron.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Maybe so. However it still doesn't mean the arrangement wasn't flawed. It was and it still is.

Yes. It was. Equally it should have been changed before SISU took control. And it should thereafter have been changed by negotiation and consensus

 

[dongonzalos]

Well, yes and no. I agree with you on the former.

But your Holy trinity of Ricoh, rent and ACL is easily trumped by relegation and 9K people off the gates since SISU arrived. Just the gate loss equates to some £5m per season; which exceeds your choices.

The crux of the matter? SISU's maladministration. From serial ineptitude from chairmen to Fisher's duplicitous demeanour and disingenuous ways. And other things beginning with a 'd' I can't think of

No question

 

[torchomatic]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. SISU have mismanaged immensely - I have never said they haven't, but the reason I mention "Holy Trinity" is that ACLs model is fatally flawed and only they and CCC can change the terms for the football club.

Well, yes and no. I agree with you on the former.

But your Holy trinity of Ricoh, rent and ACL is easily trumped by relegation and 9K people off the gates since SISU arrived. Just the gate loss equates to some £5m per season; which exceeds your choices.

The crux of the matter? SISU's maladministration. From serial ineptitude from chairmen to Fisher's duplicitous demeanour and disingenuous ways. And other things beginning with a 'd' I can't think of

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well, yes and no. I agree with you on the former.

But your Holy trinity of Ricoh, rent and ACL is easily trumped by relegation and 9K people off the gates since SISU arrived. Just the gate loss equates to some £5m per season; which exceeds your choices.

The crux of the matter? SISU's maladministration. From serial ineptitude from chairmen to Fisher's duplicitous demeanour and disingenuous ways. And other things beginning with a 'd' I can't think of

MMM's Delightfully Delicious Doughnuts?

 

[SkyBlueHomer]

And a sliding pitch. I wish I still had the brochure they handed out at HR.

No brochure but a couple of links
http://www.cwn.org.uk/skyblues/arena2000/
http://www.cwn.org.uk/skyblues/news/9902/990210-arena2000-contamination.htm

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. SISU have mismanaged immensely - I have never said they haven't, but the reason I mention "Holy Trinity" is that ACLs model is fatally flawed and only they and CCC can change the terms for the football club.

Surely that have? they've offered lower rent, and have offered to participate in F&B negotiations; although to an extent they're tied with the Compass JV contract.

My idea, as articulated in other threads, would have been for CCFC and ACL to draw a line in the sand; devise a five year strategy working alongside each other. With ACL continuing to diversify and attain other non-CCC related incomes; and as they get progressively stronger, for CCFC's rent to be reduced. Which would be fair, since the football club would become a lesser percentage of the overall business.

But whatever Fisher says, I don't think SISU are in this for the long haul. Since relegation, they've tried one way, now other to distress ACL into submission; to gain the ground and feather the nest of their exit

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

MMM's Delightfully Delicious Doughnuts?

Dreamy. I'd like to think they'd be dreamy doughnuts. I can almost hear Thorn's key keys in the ignition....

 

[Grendel]

Even filling Wembley stadium every week with the extra interest and fees on 70-100million of debt would not break us even now !!!

Why please explain how that will impact FFP rules under current legislation.

Instead of side stepping get off the fence. Do you think it was a fair arrangement?