Election 2015 (3 Viewers)
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James Smith
Well-Known Member
Well that's 4 months away plenty of time to get a series recorded.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
They're more interested in a Top Peer than Top Gear I'd imagine. Given that their real political careers are all but over.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Just got back from work (while I have it!) and got to say, fair play to this thread for staying sane, no great race mad bigotry and the like, a few views I may just disagree with... but all nice and civil.
Are you *sure* you're all CCFC fans?!?:thinking about:
Are you *sure* you're all CCFC fans?!?:thinking about:
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
what was the bet? Conservatives to win outright?
skybluetom
New Member
Miliband only has himself to blame. Appalling campaign and he was an appalling opposition leader, although has been badly advised.
Take their major pledge: minimum wage of 8 pounds an hour, by 2020. Based on current inflation it'll be more than 8 pounds by 2020. So, one of their main pledges appealing to what should be their core vote is nothing but a gimmick.
Labour's strategy throughout has been to make Cameron appeal the out of touch rich toff, which is correct, while telling everyone Miliband is guy that understands and connects with ordinary people which is ridiculous. He is multi millionaire who has never had a job. Cameron has never really hidden the fact he's an ex Eton boy, going to the point of basically saying I'm rich get over it. You may not like Cameron or feel he can't understand the lives of ordinary people because of his background but least he's honest about it while listening to Miliband tell everybody he understands what it's like to be working class just sounds contrived and disingenuous. Calling the Tories the party of the tax dodgers probably wasn't the best idea given he was very clever with his own tax affairs when it came to his inheritance either.
The business with The Sun; he appears holding a copy of it and within hours is apologising for it. Why? Either refuse to apologise because he's trying to connect with its 4 million readers or don't pose with it in the first place. The 'weaponising' the NHS thing; clearly he said it, just explain and apologise. Instead he ridiculously ducked the question about 10 times and he allowed it become an easy retort for Cameron when Miliband was attacking him on the National Health Service. This culmination of gaffs and political slip ups, coupled with the fact he just appears 'a bit odd' made Cameron look by far the better of the two.
That said, I'm stunned that the Tory party has managed to get 330 seats. I said I'd vote Labour or Tory because I felt there wasn't viable, sensible alternative. I changed my mind; (albeit where I live everybody knew the Tory candidate would romp it anyway so I could have voted any which way) I voted Lib Dem. I was sure the Tories would get more seats but would need Lib support who I thought would do a lot better. I feel the Libs would have taken the edge off the cuts coming to Welfare and things like the Armed Forces. As somebody who works, I've never been better off then I am now with the tax allowance, the cuts to fuel duty, tobacco and alcohol duty; I feel it's wrong though to take money away from the very poorest.
Take their major pledge: minimum wage of 8 pounds an hour, by 2020. Based on current inflation it'll be more than 8 pounds by 2020. So, one of their main pledges appealing to what should be their core vote is nothing but a gimmick.
Labour's strategy throughout has been to make Cameron appeal the out of touch rich toff, which is correct, while telling everyone Miliband is guy that understands and connects with ordinary people which is ridiculous. He is multi millionaire who has never had a job. Cameron has never really hidden the fact he's an ex Eton boy, going to the point of basically saying I'm rich get over it. You may not like Cameron or feel he can't understand the lives of ordinary people because of his background but least he's honest about it while listening to Miliband tell everybody he understands what it's like to be working class just sounds contrived and disingenuous. Calling the Tories the party of the tax dodgers probably wasn't the best idea given he was very clever with his own tax affairs when it came to his inheritance either.
The business with The Sun; he appears holding a copy of it and within hours is apologising for it. Why? Either refuse to apologise because he's trying to connect with its 4 million readers or don't pose with it in the first place. The 'weaponising' the NHS thing; clearly he said it, just explain and apologise. Instead he ridiculously ducked the question about 10 times and he allowed it become an easy retort for Cameron when Miliband was attacking him on the National Health Service. This culmination of gaffs and political slip ups, coupled with the fact he just appears 'a bit odd' made Cameron look by far the better of the two.
That said, I'm stunned that the Tory party has managed to get 330 seats. I said I'd vote Labour or Tory because I felt there wasn't viable, sensible alternative. I changed my mind; (albeit where I live everybody knew the Tory candidate would romp it anyway so I could have voted any which way) I voted Lib Dem. I was sure the Tories would get more seats but would need Lib support who I thought would do a lot better. I feel the Libs would have taken the edge off the cuts coming to Welfare and things like the Armed Forces. As somebody who works, I've never been better off then I am now with the tax allowance, the cuts to fuel duty, tobacco and alcohol duty; I feel it's wrong though to take money away from the very poorest.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
It's twice that to a degree Labour have messed up their leader (they also did with Kinnock) in trying to portray them as something they weren't.
Brown's USP was that he *wasn't* Blair, he was a sincere politician who whether you agreed with him or not, had a personal integrity and a formidable strength of will and desire to improve society. Instead, they tried to smooth out the rough edges, make him Blair-lite (and of course he was never going to be Blair!) and so made him appear a little insincere and comical.
Milliband, they should have embraced his 'oddness'. He's a deep thinker who considers things, reflects, and has a wide knowledge of politics and political history. Again, they tried to move him more mainstream, and that was never going to work.
The irony with both is they had leaders who could have provided an alternative to the leader-cloning we seem to get recently, but the party chose not to take it. Stupid strategy really.
Brown's USP was that he *wasn't* Blair, he was a sincere politician who whether you agreed with him or not, had a personal integrity and a formidable strength of will and desire to improve society. Instead, they tried to smooth out the rough edges, make him Blair-lite (and of course he was never going to be Blair!) and so made him appear a little insincere and comical.
Milliband, they should have embraced his 'oddness'. He's a deep thinker who considers things, reflects, and has a wide knowledge of politics and political history. Again, they tried to move him more mainstream, and that was never going to work.
The irony with both is they had leaders who could have provided an alternative to the leader-cloning we seem to get recently, but the party chose not to take it. Stupid strategy really.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Very annoyed with how the vote has transpired in Scotland. 1.4 million vote Lab/Lib/Con and get 3 MPs, 1.5 million vote SNP and get 56-the map is all yellow but in no way reflects the actual voting pattern and is a great advert for why voting reform must happen.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I like Yvette but I think she will be tainted by balls, so Chucka would be my choice. But is 36 too young (not in my eyes), 41 at the next election is only a year or 2 younger than Cameron last time round. Confident, charismatic, not tainted by brown or Blair, and comes from a normal background.
It would be interesting to see the dynamic between Cameron and a female, he's a bit of a bully when it comes to PMQs so would have to cut that out.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I left that in deliberately
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I would.....
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
It's so so annoying, for those who wanted left/left of centre politics.
He positioned the party that way (although tbf to him not as left as Kennedy), attracted disaffected Labour voters, and also Conservatives wanting change who couldn't bring themselves to vote Labour... and then sold out completely.
Utterly inexcusible.
David Steel was on the Radio as I came home, said this election had set back Liberalism decades, and he might be right. After the building under Steel, Ashdown, Kennedy, it's shocking that for the sake of a seat at the cabinet table he sold his party's future, and those who voted for him, down the river.
Unforgiveable.
As betrayals of belief go, it's right up there.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
You'd think they'd learn the lessons from the past too. Lloyd George did exactly the same, and it ripped the Liberal Party from mainstream politics as a result for 40-50 years.
Each time, play the long game, and there was a chance for proper progressive alliances. Instead we're back to the two choices and binaries that aren't much different.
Each time, play the long game, and there was a chance for proper progressive alliances. Instead we're back to the two choices and binaries that aren't much different.
skybluetom
New Member
Brown's awful smiling at the end of the debates?:facepalm:
I can see the logic in going with Ed rather David; they expected they'd be a lot of anger at the end of the recession towards the banks and big business which there is to be fair, so they thought somebody slightly to the center of the left would appeal to an awful lot of people after years of Blair, Major and Thatcher. Their thinking was sound; they just couldn't sell the idea or him as an individual.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
milliband didn't even get the support of his own party - to go in as a leader propped up by the unions is a recipe for disaster. Politics is about the strength of leader. He put personal ambition before his party - he deserved failure.
skybluetom
New Member
I'm sure he fancied himself to be a strong leader, it just transpired he was hopelessly out his depth. I agree though, he deserved to lose.
One of the best threads on here. There is no point resorting to abuse. People's political beliefs like their football affiliations are ingrained and unlikely to change. Perhaps we should be grateful to live in a democracy. Many people in the world will be looking on with envious eyes
Mild-Mannered Janitor
Kindest Bloke on CCFC / Maker of CCFC Dreams
A historic day with Labour fundamentally not getting what the play was and what the major issues were, fighting around health and all that but it was always going to come down to money and confidence in who could manage the purse strings and economy better and Labour didn't play hard on the fact that the national debt is still increasing, but just at a slower rate.
problem for them was they were the ones that escalated it.
it will be a long time before we see labour back in power
problem for them was they were the ones that escalated it.
it will be a long time before we see labour back in power
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Still can't believe he did worse than Brown. I mean how is that possible? Brown was the guy who as chancellor relaxed banking regulation that directly contributed to the banking crisis.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Am I correct in thinking that we have the highest economic growth in the EU?
I thought it was Germany, bus was told it was us.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Didn't he sell Gold reserves when gold's price was in a slump too?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Last time he should have insisted on PR guaranteed or no coalition deal. Foolish in hindsight.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
whilst the conservatives ran a campaign avoiding to lay out policies and answering questions, but focused on borderline racial campaigning on the EU vote to fight off UKIP and scaremongering the the SNP would mount an assault over Hadrians Wall if people voted Labour.
"Mr Prime Minister, can you tell us what your plans are on Welfare?"
"Sorry, i cant answer that until after the election....but let me tell you this, if you don;t want scottish people controlling what happens in England then you must vote Tory"
"Mr Prime Minister, you haven't answered the question, what are your plans on Welfare?"
"Like i was saying the SNP, all Bravehearted up......"
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Now you mention that I think he did. Still as he declared in his last budget as chancellor "it's the end of boom and bust". Wait, no. That didn't happen either. Shit, no wonder he didn't hang around in the resigning stakes, Brown was awful by any standard but to be fair to Ed I didn't think he was anywhere near as bad as Brown.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Labour drastically misjudged the competition and the voters especially scotland. Tories have no chance up north but Labour generally do but totally approached it in the wrong manner and paid the price. Regardless of whether the current process is deemed 'fair' it has opened the door to a very united Scotland and therefore a very different political landscape.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
ultimately this boiled down to a simple choice. An obnoxious but stable leader or a bungling clown - there was always only one option.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Tim Fisher?
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Someone on the news pointing out that old labour (as opposed to new labour), hasn't won an election now for 41 years.
I can't help but think that an old labour style hard left party is no longer relevant in the modern world.
The labour party was setup to defend working people against conditions that no longer exist.
They need to become Social Democrats if they are to survive. Ironically the Conservatives have helped Labour in this. By decimating the Liberals, Labour is the only main left wing Uk wide party, so they have the time to reform themselves.
I can't help but think that an old labour style hard left party is no longer relevant in the modern world.
The labour party was setup to defend working people against conditions that no longer exist.
They need to become Social Democrats if they are to survive. Ironically the Conservatives have helped Labour in this. By decimating the Liberals, Labour is the only main left wing Uk wide party, so they have the time to reform themselves.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Brown almost single handedly stopped Scotland going independent. If he hadn't had to follow the ludricous Blair he would have been a good leader. If he'd become leader after the last election he'd be in government now.
