James Smith
Well-Known Member
Maybe Tim was just there as a human shield/target to protect the Sisu lady if someone threw a pint etc.
Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Maybe Tim was just there as a human shield/target to protect the Sisu lady if someone threw a pint etc.
If they had just said we owe you nothing, Higgs would have to prove that they did owe something. If they don't owe anything, then Higgs pay the costs. Less risk for SISU and Higgs. Making it into a mega trial only serves to frighten the opponents and maybe influence the judge. A bit like as in a poker bluff.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
So how does it influence the judge?
The judge sees the evidence and decides on the evidence. (S)he's hardly likely to sit at home beforehand and think because SISU has put a counterclaim in, (s)he may as well dismiss the original claim!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
C'mon now. I don't necessarily buy that story, but are you seriously arguing that there aren't more subtle influences than purely the evidence?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
duffer
Well-Known Member
A very good point. I can't see that SISU would have planned it this way. I'm also not sure exactly what benefit they've got out of potentially losing the case; the finance officer's report doesn't sound exactly like the smoking gun, and in any case I can't see how this would have been legitimately witheld from the JR if it is the report upon which the Council came to their decision on the mortgage.
May have misunderstood though!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I'm suggesting the judge sees the evidence and weighs it up based on that evidence, and is far better placed to answer that then anybody else, yes!
There are shades of the 'King is innocent, his appeal is a foregone conclusion, it was all a setup' in some of this prejudging and deciding if SISU win it's because of dastardly tricks, as how could the pure and magnificent charity do anything wrong after all?
Well if the judge finds in their favour, they haven't done anything wrong, and were indeed entirely justified in bringing the case! That really isn't a hard thing to say, is it? Likewise if the judge finds there's no case to answer... they weren't justified in bringing it.
The closed minds and pre-judging of judges is partly why we're fucked, the tunnel vision that marches towards oblivion, forgets the lessons of the past and turns a blind eye to everything bar the current dedicated fashion.
I find it very bizarre the one-eyed determination that he's a fair judge only if the 'right' side wins. I also find it very bizarre the credit people give SISU to be able to influence people, almost as if they're members of the illuminati, and if you rip Fisher's mask off he'll turn out to be a blood drinking lizard!
I think sendung an army of lawyers is partly designed to show your strength of belief that you have a sound case, in the hope that that impresses the court. I can't see why you would otherwise risk losing and paying all the lawyers fees for any other reason. How many lawyers would you normaly need if you were convinced you had good arguments?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
That will be why he has a beard, to hide the scales.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
He was more active during the winter months, though!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
As I said, I don't think its a legal matter for most fans so obviously that won't change minds.
But what I was talkin about is the insistence that all judges are robotic evidence assessment machines and that there's no such thing as psychological tricks.
If you want balance, it works both ways I'm afraid.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Which thus doesn;t preclude the pure and innocent charity from playing psychological tricks, either.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Too right, you mentalist!
However the point being that the result to this is valid whoever wins.
Or it's invalid whoever wins.
It can't be valid for one result, and not for another. That's just ridiculous.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not saying it applies in this case necessarily but the party with more clout behind them tends to fare better in most walks of life, whether they deserve it or not.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No not at all. And as an aside, that way madness lies (believe me, I've got the therapist bills to prove it). All judgements can be questioned, to continually point this out is to assume that there is a universal right and wrong that we can ultimately get to.
I can literally argue the opposite to any point you make.
As humans we have to "thin slice" and make the best judgement we can. There comes a point where you have to admit to an overriding feeling based on what you've seen. That's ultimately what we all do, whether we admit it or not.
It could be that Sisu are just misunderstood and love the club like you or I, but it's not looking likely. Therefore if ther intentions are bad, all else is fruit of the poisoned tree. Of course, that opinion is always open to change based on evidence. Just like it did when they showed their colours by moving the club. Until that point the preposition that they were in it for the good of the club fitted a lot of what they do. I'm not sure anyone could argue that that is still the case.
Tl;dr: it's not that smart to continually point out grey areas when the issue as a whole isn't finely balanced.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
This I entirely agree with. Disregard previous essay.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Will this verdict have impact on the JR?
I think it has to. I note the telegraph report from SG said the "6 week exclusivity period" ended months before the councils deal with ACL.
To me the JR is over before it's begun. How have sisu got a case? There isn't one and the first judge said last summer there isn't a case and the second judge only have a court date to not hide anything.
Sisu are hanging on by a thread which I am happy about but that means ccfc is also.
Thoughts?
I think it has to. I note the telegraph report from SG said the "6 week exclusivity period" ended months before the councils deal with ACL.
To me the JR is over before it's begun. How have sisu got a case? There isn't one and the first judge said last summer there isn't a case and the second judge only have a court date to not hide anything.
Sisu are hanging on by a thread which I am happy about but that means ccfc is also.
Thoughts?
James Smith
Well-Known Member
If you feel victimised by a post then please use the button to report the post and we will deal with it as needed. And can we now worry about the match tonight please.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Thoughts
only winners are the lawyers - 8 on the SISU side that could easily be £4000 per hour in total !
SISU don't always win in court
Will it make people think about some of the things being said by the Club directors ? - eg "batter in court" appears a little hollow this time around
Still not over but the sensible thing would be to settle the claim and agree costs
I am not sure it has brought any documents in to the public domain so not sure it has helped the JR claim by ARVO SBS&L And CCFC H (SISU have not brought the JR claim so can they legally pass any of the information to the other three to use in court? )
We are still no closer to CCCFC playing back in Coventry
and finally ...... there is a game tonight ...... a win would be good
PUSB!!
only winners are the lawyers - 8 on the SISU side that could easily be £4000 per hour in total !
SISU don't always win in court
Will it make people think about some of the things being said by the Club directors ? - eg "batter in court" appears a little hollow this time around
Still not over but the sensible thing would be to settle the claim and agree costs
I am not sure it has brought any documents in to the public domain so not sure it has helped the JR claim by ARVO SBS&L And CCFC H (SISU have not brought the JR claim so can they legally pass any of the information to the other three to use in court? )
We are still no closer to CCCFC playing back in Coventry
and finally ...... there is a game tonight ...... a win would be good
PUSB!!
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
And those questioning the validity do, in their own way, diminish the validity of a Higgs 'win'.
Imagine the furore that'll happen on here if Grendel, say (to namecheck the obvious
) pops on here after a Higgs 'win' suggesting that it was dirty psychological tricks that got that win as opposed to it being an entirely appropriate case to bring. Imagine the uproar if he then added that PWKH only had his position of influence due to marriage, and doesn't deserve it.It'd be carnage, wouldn't it!
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Let's hope for a Coventry won tonight for sure.
I just can't see a case OSB. The judge after one day has thrown out Sisu's claim. I know this is different to the JR but not much the JR is based on some on today's events.
The JR is based on sisu claiming ccc acted unlawfully by bailing out the loan. But as one judge stated they were just protecting their interest and investment. And today's judge knows the the 6 week period ended for negotiations so not argument for
Me and JR is irrelevant now in terms of which way it is going to go. I know life isn't that simple but seems it to me.
I just can't see a case OSB. The judge after one day has thrown out Sisu's claim. I know this is different to the JR but not much the JR is based on some on today's events.
The JR is based on sisu claiming ccc acted unlawfully by bailing out the loan. But as one judge stated they were just protecting their interest and investment. And today's judge knows the the 6 week period ended for negotiations so not argument for
Me and JR is irrelevant now in terms of which way it is going to go. I know life isn't that simple but seems it to me.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
i am having a laff with widsom
anyway wouldnt report it you would i. yeh you remember the reply you gave me last time.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Ah, unless they want more than 7,000 there'll be plenty of room for them at Sixfields. Timmy was probably only there today to hand out a few free tickets.
And those questioning the validity do, in their own way, diminish the validity of a Higgs 'win'.
Imagine the furore that'll happen on here if Grendel, say (to namecheck the obvious
It'd be carnage, wouldn't it!
If it looked as if Higgs had used dirty psychological tricks, I would agree with Grendel. As far as I can see, Higgs have not said much apart from that they are owed money. Let's see if that stands up in court.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And those questioning the validity do, in their own way, diminish the validity of a Higgs 'win'.
Imagine the furore that'll happen on here if Grendel, say (to namecheck the obvious
It'd be carnage, wouldn't it!
There is a bit of a difference though.
We have a local charity. They have not knowingly lied to us. They do good within our City. Then you have SISU.
Dirty psycological tricks? By the sounds of it they had the proof that they said they had. SISU tell us that they batter people in court. Were 8 QC's needed? If it was just a sideshow why did they have so many?
Yet we have some trying to make out that we don't know what went on. The judge seems to have made his mind up very quick and had the SISU QC admit that it was a tit for tat claim. Plain and simple bullying.
We all want to know the truth. But the more that happens the more we can guess who isn't telling the truth.
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
Well the Sisu bullies have lost this one. Counter-suing a charity for precisely 10 times their claim, admitting it was 'tit for tat', bringing Tim and a team of 8 and getting it summarily thrown out in one day. Not a great day for the 'batter them in court myth', but we got to the truth of that one!
I dont think this was anything more than 'you take us to court and we will batter you 10 times more'. Cant have done much for the confidence of their legal team for the JR.
I dont think this was anything more than 'you take us to court and we will batter you 10 times more'. Cant have done much for the confidence of their legal team for the JR.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Despite the cases being completely different?
tisza
Well-Known Member
the JR is about the source of the funds and their usage. The council as a shareholder has the right to get involved. It's how they got involved that SISU are contesting.
They do overlap. The definition of "good faith", the change of CCC, ACL direction regarding the YB loan and so on would be relevant to the JR. I would be feeling a bit sick having just taken an army of lawyers to a court case only to be shown the door.
spider_ricoh
New Member
Even with the court cases, it has to be doubtful whether we will ever know the full details of what has gone on.
spider_ricoh
New Member
I hope to God this is the beginning of the end...if the court cases carry on in this way, SISU will get their JR thrown out. OK they may appeal and or find some other legal way to harass CCC /ACL (as allegedly promised by Joy) but they will probably have to sell the club on, or get their tail between their legs and do a deal on the Ricoh on comprise terms.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
What happens if Higgs lose?
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