SP. No incoming transfers. (3 Viewers)

[covmark]

I guess the poster who suddenly disappeared was one of the many cheering Wilson and Baker leaving and Tudgay and Jackson being drafted in as a 'great bit of business'?

I can't think of anyone that cheered when Wilson left tbh.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Don't worry and I'm sure it's the councils fault. They control the signings and running of the club remember.

Nobody blames the council for the performance on the pitch.

What people have highlighted is the council's lies / deceit / incompetence / lack of accountability

 

[fernandopartridge]

As for no signings, hardly a surprise. How many have we had already this season including loans and how many have been worth it?

 

[4waspsting]

The Bank balance is too far in the red , the bills still have to be paid on low support its failing fast

 

[will am i]

Ok first what are your suggestions to get rid of them and secondly what is wrong with the club being self sufficient?

As long as they arent taking any money out for management fees etc no problem with them being self suffient. Hopefully not paying Tim too much as all he is apparently only looking for a field in which to put a stadium which hardly seems like a full-time job given the progress made.

 

[Sub]

Just waiting for the announcement we are under a transfer embargo

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Self sufficient under SISU's regime would either A - be in league two under a cost cutting umbrella, playing with mediocre players on a salary cap of 1k PW or less, their is not a chance in hell we will ever become self succifient under their tenture, if you believe we will, call your doctor immediately.

Or B - Would be when they invested into the playing staff, resulting in a hint of success which would have a rolling effect by the fans paying their hard earned reddies to attend the Ricoh Arena in their droves... never going to happen, if you believe it will, again call yourself a doctor.

I think its quite clear - although some will disagree believing SISU have a never ending gold pot at the end of their raibow that SISU are on their final legs in terms of ownership, unless their business model is now to be relegated resulting in lower payments and a more manageable business - at the fans expense.

I am under the impression that the simple ridiculous court cases in relation to the Wasps agreement is them on their knees begging as their is no plans whatsoever for a stadium and they had their bluff called good and proper.

Therefore, are we still happy to continue to pay SISU not CCFC but SISU our hard earned to watch mediocre entertainment on a saturday afternoon putting money into their coffers to keep them churning away at our club whilst it goes into meltdown infront of our eyes and we contribute to it? as NONE of your 60p is going on the playing squad.

( this comes from a fan of 25 years attending the breadth of the country season after season)

I'm in agreement with you but I don't think the solution is for someone to come in and splash cash they don't have in the hope we hit the lottery.

Any new owner would also have to make us sustainable unless they are prepared to lose a lot of cash and not interested in getting it back, that means increasing revenues to a level which is sustainable in the championship through attendances which come from good fan relationships and the football being played, as well as increasing other revenues from stadium and merchandising. With the Ricoh now in Wasps ownership its going to be much tougher job now, a new owner would either have to negotiate a deal with Wasps which allows us significant stadium revenues or if that is not possible would have to have a real ambition to build a new stadium. Then we need to make sure on the pitch we are getting the maximum for our money invested producing on the pitch, no more wasters like Tudgay, Pugh, Miller. I'd be trying to build partnerships with the top premier league academies like Southampton, Arsenal to allow us to get the pick of their loan players, maybe even looking at overseas partnerships with clubs in Italy, France, Spain etc. hasn't done Watford any harm. Then compliment this with the best of our academy players like Maddison and Haynes and then use the rest of the budget to cherry pick lower league talent instead of signing L1 and championship journeyman.

 

[stupot07]

Self sufficient under SISU's regime would either A - be in league two under a cost cutting umbrella, playing with mediocre players on a salary cap of 1k PW or less, their is not a chance in hell we will ever become self succifient under their tenture, if you believe we will, call your doctor immediately.

The FFP rules for league one and two are almost identical, not sure why you are suggesting we can only be self sufficient in league two.



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[stupot07]

I'm in agreement with you but I don't think the solution is for someone to come in and splash cash they don't have in the hope we hit the lottery.

Any new owner would also have to make us sustainable unless they are prepared to lose a lot of cash without and not interested in getting it back, that means increasing revenues to a level which is sustainable in the championship through attendances which come from good fan relationships and the football being played, as well as increasing other revenues from stadium and merchandising. With the Ricoh now in Wasps ownership its going to be much tougher job now, a new owner would either have to negotiate a deal with Wasps which allows us significant stadium revenues or if that is not possible would have to have a real ambition to build a new stadium. Then we need to make sure on the pitch we are getting the maximum for our money invested producing on the pitch, no more wasters like Tudgay, Pugh, Miller. I'd be trying to build partnerships with the top premier league academies like Southampton, Arsenal to allow us to get the pick of their loan players, maybe even looking at overseas partnerships with clubs in Italy, France, Spain etc. hasn't done Watford any harm. Then compliment this with the best of our academy players like Maddison and Haynes and then use the rest of the budget to cherry pick lower league talent instead of signing L1 and championship journeyman.

Agreed, and as we've seen from financial information for the championship. A rent only little/no access to additional revenues means that we have one of the lowest 3-4 turnovers in the championship, which means we cannot be self sufficient or sustainable in the championship without significant investment, especially given we would be competing from the bottom of the pile with teams willing to spend and lose upto £13m per annum on top of the superior turnovers. We're destined to be a league one-championship yo yo club at best for the foreseeable future.

It's all a big basket of poo.


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[Sky Blue Kid]

I can't think of anyone that cheered when Wilson left tbh.

I can....and they're all on the board of SISU/Otium.

 

[The Lurker]

I can't think of anyone that cheered when Wilson left tbh.

Few on here agreed with the wilson move and said it was win win for the club.

 

[stupot07]

Few on here agreed with the wilson move and said it was win win for the club.

That's hardly cheering though is it?


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[The Gentleman]

Agreed, and as we've seen from financial information for the championship. A rent only little/no access to additional revenues means that we have one of the lowest 3-4 turnovers in the championship, which means we cannot be self sufficient or sustainable in the championship without significant investment, especially given we would be competing from the bottom of the pile with teams willing to spend and lose upto £13m per annum on top of the superior turnovers. We're destined to be a league one-championship yo yo club at best for the foreseeable future.

It's all a big basket of poo.



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No denying it's a bag of shite but which would you prefer?

It would appear that Sisu are here for a while yet (even before the Wasps rocked up) so would you be happy to continue down their path which is seemingly leading us down to L2 and then god knows where or be a yo-yo Championship/L1 club with the success that would bring along with the extra revenue from promotion and extra ticket sales, bearing in mind what we have been served up for 20 odd years and the disappointment after disappointment every sodding year? I know what I would choose........

 

[stupot07]

No denying it's a bag of shite but which would you prefer?

It would appear that Sisu are here for a while yet (even before the Wasps rocked up) so would you be happy to continue down their path which is seemingly leading us down to L2 and then god knows where or be a yo-yo Championship/L1 club with the success that would bring along with the extra revenue from promotion and extra ticket sales, bearing in mind what we have been served up for 20 odd years and the disappointment after disappointment every sodding year? I know what I would choose........

What would I prefer? I would prefer ccfc to buy the ricoh off wasps, then to fook off then a double promotion back into the PL. That's not going to happen though is it.


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[The Gentleman]

What would I prefer? I would prefer ccfc to buy the ricoh off wasps, then to fook off then a double promotion back into the PL. That's not going to happen though is it.


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So, out of the two options I gave, which would you prefer?

 

[The Lurker]

That's hardly cheering though is it?


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How was it win win for the club? Were worse much worse off in fact. And haven't seen any of the money which has improved the team. Same applied to baker, fans saying we don't need him. Clearly MK haven benefited and fighting for promotion while were in a relegation battle. But what do most fans on here know hey. Rather slag the council off (and wasps) then slag our useless owners off.

 

[Astute]

Ok first what are your suggestions to get rid of them and secondly what is wrong with the club being self sufficient?

There is nothing wrong with our club being self sufficient. But considering that last season our club raised in excess of 5m without season tickets and tickets sold at home games and also other income revenues other than player sales and the Arsenal game how much of this money got reinvested? We certainly have not seen it put back into our club.

 

[Moff]

There is nothing wrong with our club being self sufficient. But considering that last season our club raised in excess of 5m without season tickets and tickets sold at home games and also other income revenues other than player sales and the Arsenal game how much of this money got reinvested? We certainly have not seen it put back into our club.

What the hell is their end game? as I just cant see what it is, as soon with no fans they will be losing money hand over fist...still if it makes them piss off that would be a result, except what state will the club be left in when they do?

 

[Astute]

What the hell is their end game? as I just cant see what it is, as soon with no fans they will be losing money hand over fist...still if it makes them piss off that would be a result, except what state will the club be left in when they do?

I don't see them as having an end game. Maybe just getting more desperate as they go along.

I see plan A as getting us into the Prem. They failed. Plan B was get the Ricoh cheaply. They failed. Plan C seems to get damages out of CCC through litigation. Don't seem like good news for them so far. But whilst they attempt so they seem to be running our club as cheaply as they can whilst taking as much money as they can. But they are finding out that the lower they take us the lower the attendances. So to keep the income coming in they need to keep selling. But they have nearly run out of players to sell.

Of course I could be wrong. But I have not seen anything to make me think differently.

 

[wingy]

I don't see them as having an end game. Maybe just getting more desperate as they go along.

I see plan A as getting us into the Prem. They failed. Plan B was get the Ricoh cheaply. They failed. Plan C seems to get damages out of CCC through litigation. Don't seem like good news for them so far. But whilst they attempt so they seem to be running our club as cheaply as they can whilst taking as much money as they can. But they are finding out that the lower they take us the lower the attendances. So to keep the income coming in they need to keep selling. But they have nearly run out of players to sell.

Of course I could be wrong. But I have not seen anything to make me think differently.

I would be very Impressed If Maddison and Haynes resisted their likely moves ,which must be Imminent to fund next year .

 

[Ashdown]

I don't see them as having an end game. Maybe just getting more desperate as they go along.

I see plan A as getting us into the Prem. They failed. Plan B was get the Ricoh cheaply. They failed. Plan C seems to get damages out of CCC through litigation. Don't seem like good news for them so far. But whilst they attempt so they seem to be running our club as cheaply as they can whilst taking as much money as they can. But they are finding out that the lower they take us the lower the attendances. So to keep the income coming in they need to keep selling. But they have nearly run out of players to sell.

Of course I could be wrong. But I have not seen anything to make me think differently.

Just about sums it up. Thing is they've curtailed almost all of the income streams by their sheer apathy and incompetence. Ticket sales are appalling and the marketing coupled with that is almost non existent, they have alienated the local populace to such an extent that sponsorship and corporate revenue is negligible and they have all but run down the club shop to a sale rail !! Unless they come up with a spark of wisdom and innovation by May I guess they will also lose 40% of the current ST holders. My punt is that they will sack/pay off SP and hope the new manager { although working under the same constraints} will inspire a dash of optimism enough to entice a fair wad of ST cash to once again barely support a threadbare squad.

 

[Tonylinc]

I don't see them as having an end game. Maybe just getting more desperate as they go along.

I see plan A as getting us into the Prem. They failed. Plan B was get the Ricoh cheaply. They failed. Plan C seems to get damages out of CCC through litigation. Don't seem like good news for them so far. But whilst they attempt so they seem to be running our club as cheaply as they can whilst taking as much money as they can. But they are finding out that the lower they take us the lower the attendances. So to keep the income coming in they need to keep selling. But they have nearly run out of players to sell.

Of course I could be wrong. But I have not seen anything to make me think differently.

Some adjustment to that scenario......Yes plan A was first of all to get us to the Prem. but that got substituted after the first season to getting the Ricoh. Every following effort was to that aim with absolutely no consideration shown to the "first" objective. That was seen by our owners as "the prize", so much so that they are still trying to achieve it long after the boat has sailed.

 

[wingy]

Just about sums it up. Thing is they've curtailed almost all of the income streams by their sheer apathy and incompetence. Ticket sales are appalling and the marketing coupled with that is almost non existent, they have alienated the local populace to such an extent that sponsorship and corporate revenue is negligible and they have all but run down the club shop to a sale rail !! Unless they come up with a spark of wisdom and innovation by May I guess they will also lose 40% of the current ST holders. My punt is that they will sack/pay off SP and hope the new manager { although working under the same constraints} will inspire a dash of optimism enough to entice a fair wad of ST cash to once again barely support a threadbare squad.

Nail on head Ashdown.

 

[Covstu]

How was it win win for the club? Were worse much worse off in fact. And haven't seen any of the money which has improved the team. Same applied to baker, fans saying we don't need him. Clearly MK haven benefited and fighting for promotion while were in a relegation battle. But what do most fans on here know hey. Rather slag the council off (and wasps) then slag our useless owners off.

Hmmm I think the comments were around the inevitability of losing Wilson rather than it was a good move. Losing Clarke then Wilson was disastrous for the club and the same with Baker as it cut off any attacking threat but no fan wanted to see Wilson leave.

 

[skybluedan]

Did anyone truly believe that there would be players coming in? Yet again SISU/Otium f**k off the fans with their "Positive display" of backing the team. 7 years of this s**t, and nothing changes except the depth of it.

Hope the fuckers don't expect any incoming fans then

 

[wingy]

Hmmm I think the comments were around the inevitability of losing Wilson rather than it was a good move. Losing Clarke then Wilson was disastrous for the club and the same with Baker as it cut off any attacking threat but no fan wanted to see Wilson leave.

Puts things In perspective doesn't It Stu .

His transfer fee has funded the entire playing squad for this season .

so Maddison and haynes next to cover nexr year .

Of course If you have a bright star they're always going to want to go and someone Is always going to want to take them due to the level we're at .

You get where I'm going .

Maybe If these next two decided to stay It might focus the SISU mind .

 

[Astute]

Hmmm I think the comments were around the inevitability of losing Wilson rather than it was a good move. Losing Clarke then Wilson was disastrous for the club and the same with Baker as it cut off any attacking threat but no fan wanted to see Wilson leave.

I do remember comments like good business for our club.....3m for a Div 3 player is good........but not good as we more or less knew that we wouldn't see any of it to bring more quality in.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

There is nothing wrong with our club being self sufficient. But considering that last season our club raised in excess of 5m without season tickets and tickets sold at home games and also other income revenues other than player sales and the Arsenal game how much of this money got reinvested? We certainly have not seen it put back into our club.

I'm guessing most of it went to covering losses incurred by playing in Northampton (losses which they inflicted on themselves) and paying player wages, agent fees, signing on fees, loan fees, academy costs etc. this season.
I'm as frustrated as everyone, I'd have liked to have seen a small portion of that money go into picking up young talented conference players and L2 players for small transfer fees but Pressley went the other route in getting experienced Championship players which would cost much more in wages and agent fees.

Are you trying to say its gone into SISUs back pocket, SISU must have made loads of money out of the club if so. Very profitable for them.

 

[wingy]

I'm guessing most of it went to covering losses incurred by playing in Northampton (losses which they inflicted on themselves) and paying player wages, agent fees, signing on fees, loan fees, academy costs etc. this season.
I'm as frustrated as everyone, I'd have liked to have seen a small portion of that money go into picking up young talented conference players and L2 players for small transfer fees but Pressley went the other route in getting experienced Championship players which would cost much more in wages and agent fees.

Are you trying to say its gone into SISUs back pocket, SISU must have made loads of money out of the club if so. Very profitable for them.

Losses that her Rich Investors would cover and provide the 40% seed /Construction /Land purchase as per the big LR Interview, sentence four.

 

[stupot07]

There is nothing wrong with our club being self sufficient. But considering that last season our club raised in excess of 5m without season tickets and tickets sold at home games and also other income revenues other than player sales and the Arsenal game how much of this money got reinvested? We certainly have not seen it put back into our club.

did they? where do you think the money went? whats this £5m+ we got in last season?

 

[Astute]

I'm guessing most of it went to covering losses incurred by playing in Northampton (losses which they inflicted on themselves) and paying player wages, agent fees, signing on fees, loan fees, academy costs etc. this season.
I'm as frustrated as everyone, I'd have liked to have seen a small portion of that money go into picking up young talented conference players and L2 players for small transfer fees but Pressley went the other route in getting experienced Championship players which would cost much more in wages and agent fees.

Are you trying to say its gone into SISUs back pocket, SISU must have made loads of money out of the club if so. Very profitable for them.

Trying to say what?

It has gone somewhere. Not sure where it has gone. But it certainly hasn't gone where it should have. And that is reinvested in our squad.

 

[Astute]

did they? where do you think the money went? whats this £5m+ we got in last season?

Money for Wilson, Clarke, Christie and the Arsenal game.

 

[stupot07]

Money for Wilson, Clarke, Christie and the Arsenal game.

Clarke and arsenal was last season - that money would have gone on covering operating costs last season.

Christie and Wilson was this season, and I doubt we got full payments (~£2.25m for wilson i seem to remember) for either upfront, and they will have been used to fund operating costs, and some of the costs/losses from last season. so would have certainly been put back in the club.

 

[Astute]

Clarke and arsenal was last season - that money would have gone on covering operating costs last season.

Christie and Wilson was this season, and I doubt we got full payments (~£2.25m for wilson i seem to remember) for either upfront, and they will have been used to fund operating costs, and some of the costs/losses from last season. so would have certainly been put back in the club.

So when was the cut off point from last season to this season?

And whatever date you want to use there is an extra 5m approx that wasn't from normal expected income.......none of which was reinvested. And 3m plus was what was said about for Wilson after the deal went through.

 

[The Gentleman]

Stupot, Ill ask again in case you missed it.

So, out of the two options I gave, which would you prefer?