The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I can only say what I know. Another 4% rise was granted this week ( I forgot who to ). I pay my staff a lot more than 4 years ago. My sales ( retail sales in general) are going up. High domestic demand. The Eurozone GDP rose more than the US in 2016.
     
  2. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    Gotta say I thought it strange how the USA started increasing rates last year and wondered if it was to affect other currencies. rather than domestic pressures?
     
  3. mrtrench

    mrtrench Well-Known Member

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    USD will strengthen as more money comes in to invest at the higher interest rates. This will make imports to the USA cheaper and in the long term help other countries - but it's not a big factor and will take a time. The BoE, I think, will raise GBP interest rates back to 0.25% soon as the expected recession didn't arrive - the UK is still growing and inflation is picking up. Their principal mandate is to keep inflation in a band around 2.5%.
     
  4. dutchman

    dutchman Well-Known Member

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    Support for Brexit 'soars' as Theresa May triggers Article 50

    Support for Brexit has soared as Theresa May triggered Article 50, kick-starting Britain’s exit from the European Union.

    While the support was split 52 per cent - 48 per cent in favour of leaving in the referendum, support for going ahead with Brexit is now significantly higher, YouGov figures suggest.

    Compared with the 52 per cent who voted Leave last year, the data reveals that 69 per cent now say Britain's divorce from the EU should go ahead.

    Those who do not support Britain leaving the EU, and say the Government should ignore the result of the referendum or seek to overturn it, make up just 21 per cent of those surveyed.

    And 25 per cent of people voted Remain but now feel that the Government should carry out the process in the wake of the referendum result.
     
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  5. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    None of which means they think Brexit is a great idea imo...just that more of those voting remain initially are coming to terms with it. As one that voted remain...I think that's a good thing. Personally I accepted it immediately & felt we just had to get on with the job.
    The winners are those individuals (not corporations) that see an opportunity in this & capitalise on it. I'd love to be one of them!

    ...onwards & upwards PUSB
     
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  6. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    A truely memorable day for me personally. I was a passionate leave voter and I have celebrated today with much joy. Even some tears of joy. I understand not everyone voted the same way as me but I see what Dutchman posted earlier. The latest yougov poll. I've seen it myself first hand also. More and more people are at least starting to accept the result. I think that's a good thing. You don't have to agree with it but accepting a result is the start to move forward. Unlike cretins like Alexander Campbell who don't believe brexit will happen and it CAN be stopped. Idiot.
     
  7. Terry Gibson's perm

    Terry Gibson's perm Well-Known Member

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    Clueless Clegg looked so miserable tonight must be wondering where his next gravy train will be now the European dream has gone.
     
  8. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    A very historic day, regardless of the outcome of "Brexit" and your stance on the vote.

    There's no reason why this can't be a modern revolution, and propel Britain into a great economic giant as we have done so many times before.

    Time will tell, but in 50+ years time, this is actually a key moment in history!
     
  9. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. This could be a really global Britain. The EU is failing, it doesn't work. Many around Europe are celebrating we have left namely Denmark who are more eurosceptic than Britain. Can you imagine a free trade deal with America and importing their fantastic cars to this country or free trade with Australia for their fantastic wine. It's endless. They want to do business with us. This is why we will get a free trade deal with EU. They have to give us one else their biggest export market in the world goes shopping elsewhere costing bmw workers thousands of jobs and Mercedes and Citroen etc. We can go and make a free trade deal with America after we leave. We can't do it currently.

    The EU is a protectionist customs union which might have been great 40 years ago but now frankly in a global world it simply doesn't work.
     
  10. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it's an exciting time for new economic growth around the world.

    To be honest, minus Germany, most of the EU IMO (Spain, Greece etc) rely on tourism. i.e us "pastey English going there and spending money on sun, booze and fags"

    I really do believe the EU needs us, more than we need them, IMO of course.
     
  11. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Odd definition of soared. 52% voted leave but the poll you've linked to now shows 44% responding as 'I support Britain leaving the EU".
     
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  12. olderskyblue

    olderskyblue Well-Known Member

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    Well, as always, it depends which way you read it.

    It says 21% do not support Britain leaving the EU. If you just use those figures, it seems support has soared....

    Is it those good old "active" and "passive" coming into play ;)
     
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  13. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    While I voted, Britain needs to move towards being a net exporter, not just being able to import more cheap stuff. Move away from credit into added value.
     
  14. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    If I was losing my rights to live and work in any EU country, I'd be fuming. Can't be bothered with the same arguments so will leave it there and look forward to revisiting in a few years. ;)
     
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  15. Terry Gibson's perm

    Terry Gibson's perm Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends where you are starting from if you are in one of these downtrodden countries then maybe but if you are in an elite country why worry too much;).
     
  16. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    What I find ironic is the argument I could have bought into (allowing state aid, adding import tariffs to protect home industry) is one that wasn't made during the campaign.

    It won't be a policy enacted, either.
     
  17. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    If you have something to offer, you'll always be let in to any country. Skilled people and doctors/nurses etc will be allowed to come here. People looking for hand outs, without putting into the system, won't be. Hopefully anyway.
     
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  18. Earlsdon_Skyblue1

    Earlsdon_Skyblue1 Well-Known Member

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    Someone just posted this article on Facebook, saying it was the best written one on Brexit. I couldn't disagree more.

    Subscribe to read
    Google

    What are your opinions on it?


    *Note, wouldn't let me post the link, but it is the 'brexiteers must lose' one.
     
  19. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, that like all of the doom-laden articles, they seem to be written on the absolute assumption that:

    1. Britain won't trade with the EU anymore
    2. There will be significant tariffs on trade with the EU in any case

    That said, some of the points he's made are true. I'm a leave voter but it definitely isn't leave at all costs, we need a strong relationship with the other EU states. There will be give and take but I see it as neither the end of the world or the beginning of a new dawn.
     
  20. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our T&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights.
    Subscribe to read

    On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe.

    It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary.

    Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential. Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality.

    This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints. Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent.

    The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation. The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right.

    Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British? Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it. But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached.

    This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side. Related article What is the great repeal bill and how will it work? Process by which the UK leaves the EU will have huge consequences for business Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large. If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them. This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one.

    The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future. Article 50: defusing the Brexit time bomb Play video Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one. I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves. martin.wolf@ft.com
     
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  21. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    You better hope that the current trend of EU nurses and midwives reverses then ;) That is unless you are happy with those to come in from elsewhere with lesser qualifications.

    Personally, I can't wait to get out and live in the EUSSR....I will post some pictures up showing the horrors for you all too. ;)

    Not sure what handouts has to do with the EU migrants, but oh well.

    I also see that it looks like the predictions of the EU bending over as the British enjoy French cheese and Italian wine have been proven to be utter bollocks.
     
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  22. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    This nonsense is predicated on the assumption that negotiations will fail miserably, we'll see. I'm much more optimistic.
    The person who failed miserably is Cameron, his pre referendum deal was useless so Brexit happened.
     
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  23. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Why should the British have got even more special treatment? I don't think negotiations will break down any more but i think there will be a few in for a rude awakening.
     
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  24. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    No, but there are many people that come to the UK, work hard, are good at what they do and contribute to society and the economy. A Polish nurse who looked after me when I had an operation was very good, as was the Spanish and Caribbean night nurses.

    This is not exclusive to "EU migrants". I hope that those able to work, British or Foreign, will be told to work, rather than just take the JSA etc. I've been working since I was 15, excluding paper rounds at 12/13 etc, and don't see any reason why able bodied people are allowed to live on the doll as a career (through choice).
     
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  25. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree and I'm sure most people wherever they are from will agree. Just to point out that I fully supported my partner when we first came back to Italy and she was unable to work due to her English not being a C1 level...she was B2. Without freedom of movement I doubt she would have helped 100s of women deliver babies as we wouldn't have been able to live in the UK in a post Brexit society.
     
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  26. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Cameron went all in, with a pair of Deuces. Just shows how arrogant he was.
     
  27. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    I do hate this divide.
     
  28. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    It isn't going to get any better any time soon...that is the worst part of this whole thing for me.

    Apologies, I edited my post.
     
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  29. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, this confused me, why wouldn't her English be good enough in Italy? :S
     
  30. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    No, I mean the "You voted leave, you must be a fascist", "You voted remain, you must be more intelligent/superior".

    I like to stay as central as I can personally. Practical, realistic and able to take on new information, not just read the black and white.
     
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  31. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant England.
     
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  32. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Did she take further qualifications to get the the required standard or...?
     
  33. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Yes she took an exam while over here to reach the required level. There has been such a shortage that since then that she has worked with people who were even worse than when she first came here and even those not even registered with the NMC....there is already a huge shortage of midwives and a lot of her colleagues from the EU are also looking to leave. The worst part is that the majority of those coming from the EU have done the equivalent of a masters degree and are more qualified than those trained here.
     
  34. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about British expats in Spain for example, when they buy/build their dream home, then it gets demolished to make way for Spanish citizens?

    This is to SickBoy and Martcov, but anyone feel free to answer :)
     
  35. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I've heard about houses being demolished due to roads being built but not for Spanish people to have homes? Do you have a link?

    Why is it EU migrants and British expats, BTW.
     
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