The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (23 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The bit that starts at 22 seconds is from the Cameron Farage debate I think. Where Cameron explained to Ferage that Norway still makes contributions to the EU etc. and I swear there was a moment of realisation for Ferage as he didn’t seem to understand what he’d been saying all these years while Cameron was explaining that we’d be half in half out. It was after that debate Ferage started changing his tune and upping the rhetoric.

 

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[Astute]

The bit that starts at 22 seconds is from the Cameron Farage debate I think. Where Cameron explained to Ferage that Norway still makes contributions to the EU etc. and I swear there was a moment of realisation for Ferage as he didn’t seem to understand what he’d been saying all these years while Cameron was explaining that we’d be half in half out. It was after that debate Ferage started changing his tune and upping the rhetoric.

So who here likes either Cameron or Farage?

Yes free trade isn't free when the EU is involved.

 

[skybluetony176]

The UK is already adapted to this. So what is the problem if talks end up going this way?

Nothing wrong with ending up with membership of the EEA like Norway. Personally I’d prefer it to being in the EU but that isn’t what brexit negotiaters are proposing or apparently what people voted for. Norway doesn’t have full control of it’s border with the EU, Norway can’t refuse EU economic migrants, Norway contributes to the EU budget but takes no funding back out, etc etc. They’re half in half out which neither leave or remain voted for as it wasn’t an option. Although Ferage had changed his tune by the time of the campaign, Gove always sold out as out to be fair to him but Boris was still selling the Norway model in his newspaper column the Monday after the brexit referendum when it was known that we’d voted leave, at which point Gove turned on Boris and announced his intention to run in the leadership campaign.

 

[Grendel]

Nothing wrong with ending up with membership of the EEA like Norway. Personally I’d prefer it to being in the EU but that isn’t what brexit negotiaters are proposing or apparently what people voted for. Norway doesn’t have full control of it’s border with the EU, Norway can’t refuse EU economic migrants, Norway contributes to the EU budget but takes no funding back out, etc etc. They’re half in half out which neither leave or remain voted for as it wasn’t an option. Although Ferage had changed his tune by the time of the campaign, Gove always sold out as out to be fair to him but Boris was still selling the Norway model in his newspaper column the Monday after the brexit referendum when it was known that we’d voted leave, at which point Gove turned on Boris and announced his intention to run in the leadership campaign.

Hi tony - can you please tell me what's the trade balance between the two compared to the uk and the Eu - is it the same? Do as many European jobs depend on Norway as the uk for eu producers? If not and one uk condition was an ease of access border in a cross border state would you concede that point if it means your members can continue a profitable free trade arrangement with such an important purchaser of your goods?

 

[skybluetony176]

Hi tony - can you please tell me what's the trade balance between the two compared to the uk and the Eu - is it the same? Do as many European jobs depend on Norway as the uk for eu producers? If not and one uk condition was an ease of access border in a cross border state would you concede that point if it means your members can continue a profitable free trade arrangement with such an important purchaser of your goods?

Then we wouldn’t have an arrangement like Norway and you’ve just wasted pages arguing that we could. You’re actually describing something more akin to EFTA membership with exclusions on certain trades such as farming if we’re going to accept USA beef and poultry. That on it’s own from an Irish border point of view would make it pointless as farming is one of the biggest if not biggest cross border trades. So that means we’re now hamstrung in negotiations with the USA as US meat products are now of the table.

Norway and Switzerland have free trade with conditions.

 

[Sick Boy]

The bit that starts at 22 seconds is from the Cameron Farage debate I think. Where Cameron explained to Ferage that Norway still makes contributions to the EU etc. and I swear there was a moment of realisation for Ferage as he didn’t seem to understand what he’d been saying all these years while Cameron was explaining that we’d be half in half out. It was after that debate Ferage started changing his tune and upping the rhetoric.

It's shocking, isn't it? The Brexiteers assumed they'd be able to make individual deals with countries as they were going into negotiations. There is a genuine lack of awareness of how the EU works and assumptions made as shown on this thread

 

[Grendel]

It's shocking, isn't it? The Brexiteers assumed they'd be able to make individual deals with countries as they were going into negotiations. There is a genuine lack of awareness of how the EU works and assumptions made as shown on this thread

Can you give examples of assumptions and when you mean "how the Eu works" I've always assumed in its members interests.

Still great to see you and a ukip voter showing mutual understanding and respect.

 

[Astute]

Nothing wrong with ending up with membership of the EEA like Norway. Personally I’d prefer it to being in the EU but that isn’t what brexit negotiaters are proposing or apparently what people voted for. Norway doesn’t have full control of it’s border with the EU, Norway can’t refuse EU economic migrants, Norway contributes to the EU budget but takes no funding back out, etc etc. They’re half in half out which neither leave or remain voted for as it wasn’t an option. Although Ferage had changed his tune by the time of the campaign, Gove always sold out as out to be fair to him but Boris was still selling the Norway model in his newspaper column the Monday after the brexit referendum when it was known that we’d voted leave, at which point Gove turned on Boris and announced his intention to run in the leadership campaign.

Forget about Gove, Boris or Farage.

Money talks. Not people not involved in the talks. Large and small companies and countries depend on their trade with us.

Post-Brexit U.K. Car Sales Slump Seen Risking 18,000 German Jobs

 

[Sick Boy]

Can you give examples of assumptions and when you mean "how the Eu works" I've always assumed in its members interests.

Still great to see you and a ukip voter showing mutual understanding and respect.

I'd take a look at your own recent posts for that.

The new 'Minister for Brexit' doesn't understand how EU trade deals actually work



Then you try and claim that the UK lot are far superiors to those leading the EU side.

 

[Grendel]

I'd take a look at your own recent posts for that.

The new 'Minister for Brexit' doesn't understand how EU trade deals actually work



Then you try and claim that the UK lot are far superiors to those leading the EU side.

The mouthpiece for the dribbling europhiles - the laughable named independent - wow I'm sold

 

[Sick Boy]

The mouthpiece for the dribbling europhiles - the laughable named independent - wow I'm sold

LOL just ignore the actual quote by Davis. It must be all of that froth getting in the way of your swivelling eyes.

The Tweet is from his own account by the way, not the Independent. Sadly the Express probably wouldn't print it, so you must have missed it.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can you give examples of assumptions and when you mean "how the Eu works" I've always assumed in its members interests.

Still great to see you and a ukip voter showing mutual understanding and respect.

It's funny that you actually have a lot more in common with the average UKIP voter. Your 70s style quips would probably go down well with them as well as Nige.

 

[skybluetony176]

Forget about Gove, Boris or Farage.

Money talks. Not people not involved in the talks. Large and small companies and countries depend on their trade with us.

Post-Brexit U.K. Car Sales Slump Seen Risking 18,000 German Jobs

They don’t depend solely on us but it could and probably will hurt them. I’m not and never have denied that. You keep arguing a point I haven’t argued. My point is and repeatedly has been that it will hurt us more.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's shocking, isn't it? The Brexiteers assumed they'd be able to make individual deals with countries as they were going into negotiations. There is a genuine lack of awareness of how the EU works and assumptions made as shown on this thread

It is. Very shocking in some cases.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'd take a look at your own recent posts for that.

The new 'Minister for Brexit' doesn't understand how EU trade deals actually work



Then you try and claim that the UK lot are far superiors to those leading the EU side.

And this is the guy leading the negotiations. The Diane Abbott of the Conservative party.

 

[Grendel]

It's funny that you actually have a lot more in common with the average UKIP voter. Your 70s style quips would probably go down well with them as well as Nige.

Well I don't - however I have genuinely worked closely with 3 Italian men at work. I got on well with them but I can tell you the attitude they had to women would have made uk 70's man look like a guardian reader. One just casually said to me "women are tits and Pussy" in the office we worked in. One other made him look liberal.

Good luck.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well I don't - however I have genuinely worked closely with 3 Italian men at work. I got on well with them but I can tell you the attitude they had to women would have made uk 70's man look like a guardian reader. One just casually said to me "women are tits and Pussy" in the office we worked in. One other made him look liberal.

Good luck.

I thought anecdotal evidence didn’t count? Besides I’ve met men with that sort of attitude all over the world. Sexism isn’t a cultural issue it’s an arsehole issue and arseholes are everywhere.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well I don't - however I have genuinely worked closely with 3 Italian men at work. I got on well with them but I can tell you the attitude they had to women would have made uk 70's man look like a guardian reader. One just casually said to me "women are tits and Pussy" in the office we worked in. One other made him look liberal.

Good luck.

I'm not surprised you get on well with them. There are plenty of men in the UK with similar attitudes too. You should try to stop judging a whole nation on a couple of people.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not surprised you get on well with them. There are plenty of men in the UK with similar attitudes too. You should try to stop judging a whole nation on a couple of people.

I have met many southern Mediterranean men through work and in general they are far more disrespectful to women then men from the uk. I've seen plenty of racism from the uk but sexism and misogyny is far more rife in the Med - you know it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I have met many southern Mediterranean men through work and in general they are far more disrespectful to women then men from the uk. I've seen plenty of racism from the uk but sexism and misogyny is far more rife in the Med - you know it.

It is pretty rife in northern Europe and the UK as well, particularly amongst the younger generations, unfortunately. It was pretty bad 15 years ago when I was a teenager but from what I hear from the younger lot at work girls get touched up and harassed on a regular basis when they are out.
It's very sad it is going backwards.

 

[Astute]

A bad deal will be far far worse for the UK than the EU. This could smash the UK while barely scratching EU. Joe average in the EU street probably won’t even notice the difference, whereas the UK will feel it at every level of society.

Then you say

They don’t depend solely on us but it could and probably will hurt them. I’m not and never have denied that. You keep arguing a point I haven’t argued. My point is and repeatedly has been that it will hurt us more.

Are you sure?

 

[martcov]

Don't we have 28....soon to be 27 countries that have to agree on any change?

How do we get any regulations and bureaucratic rules if no one agrees anything?

 

[skybluetony176]

Then you say

Are you sure?

Am I sure of what? Germany exports more to the US and France and we’re about to be demoted by China to forth of the biggest importers of German goods. We’re not all of a sudden going to stop importing from Germany because of brexit whatever deal that’s on. So yes leaving the EU will hurt them, again that’s not something I’ve ever tried to argue, but it will inevitably hurt us more. Germany on its own is a bigger economy than ours, it’s a bigger exporter than us on the world stage so Germany on its own is better placed to absorb the negatives of brexit than we are as its only really going to effect something like 7% of it’s exports market. It’s also part of a group that are going to share that burden.

We on the other hand are going it alone. We have no one to share the burden with and almost 50% of UKs goods and services go to the EU.

 

[Astute]

How do we get any regulations and bureaucratic rules if no one agrees anything?

Don't you see a problem with it?

To you there isn't an EU rule that is wrong. So we have food products we don't want or can stop. But it is OK because it is caused by bureaucracy.

 

[Astute]

Am I sure of what? Germany exports more to the US and France and we’re about to be demoted by China to forth of the biggest importers of German goods. We’re not all of a sudden going to stop importing from Germany because of brexit whatever deal that’s on. So yes leaving the EU will hurt them, again that’s not something I’ve ever tried to argue, but it will inevitably hurt us more. Germany on its own is a bigger economy than ours, it’s a bigger exporter than us on the world stage so Germany on its own is better placed to absorb the negatives of brexit than we are as its only really going to effect something like 7% of it’s exports market. It’s also part of a group that are going to share that burden.

We on the other hand are going it alone. We have no one to share the burden with and almost 50% of UKs goods and services go to the EU.

You have contradicted yourself. Nothing unusual there I suppose.

Be a man and admit it for once.

 

[skybluetony176]

You have contradicted yourself. Nothing unusual there I suppose.

Be a man and admit it for once.

Contradicted where? I’ve quoted figures that you can find on google in a couple of seconds. Not sure what you’re going on about there so I don’t have a clue what I’m supposed to man up and admit.

 

[Astute]

Contradicted where? I’ve quoted figures that you can find on google in a couple of seconds. Not sure what you’re going on about there so I don’t have a clue what I’m supposed to man up and admit.

Exactly. Showed you two posts from yesterday that you have done. No need to say what is in them as they are not much above this post.

But all you will try and do is wriggle out as usual.

That is the problem when getting a point across is more important than saying what you really think or know. You can't remember everything that you have said. Yet you seem desperate to catch me out. But you won't as I am being truthful with my thoughts.

Someone else made a mistake yesterday. He admitted it. That was the end of it. But you?

 

[Astute]

And just in case you need a clue. This is what you said.


Joe average in the EU street probably won’t even notice the difference

They don’t depend solely on us but it could and probably will hurt them. I’m not and never have denied that.

 

[Sick Boy]

And just in case you need a clue. This is what you said.


Joe average in the EU street probably won’t even notice the difference

They don’t depend solely on us but it could and probably will hurt them. I’m not and never have denied that.

For someone who claim to be neutral in all this, why is it that you only seem to pick up on things by remain voters and ignore the hypocrisy and double standards of some of the leave voters?

My guess is that you are a eurosceptic based on your previous posts on this thread and bias. I suppose claiming to be a neutral will allow you to jump onto either side once it becomes clearer how it will pan out.

 

[Astute]

For someone who claim to be neutral in all this, why is it that you only seem to pick up on things by remain voters and ignore the hypocrisy and double standards of some of the leave voters?

My guess is that you are a eurosceptic based on your previous posts on this thread and bias. I suppose claiming to be a neutral will allow you to jump onto either side once it becomes clearer how it will pan out.

Because there is a bunch of you twisting the truth and also trying to make out that guesses are a true fact. Then you give each other a pat on the back.

It is so obvious.

 

[Astute]

And strangely enough I have said that I see both good and bad with staying or leaving. I have pulled up leave voters at times and agreed many times with remainers.

How about when I say about the homeless? You tried to say that there wasn't many at first. Then when you found out that there is about 3.5m you said you would come back to it.

The only time you ever come back to itis to ask me how Brexit will solve it. Brexit won't solve it. But it will continue to get worse with open borders to the EU. Especially if and when more poor countries join like Juncker wants.

 

[Astute]

This might interest you SB :smuggrin:

Theresa May faces humiliation as DUP poised to side with Labour yet again

 

[Sick Boy]

Because there is a bunch of you twisting the truth and also trying to make out that guesses are a true fact. Then you give each other a pat on the back.

It is so obvious.

We are expressing our opinions, much the same way that those on the opposite side do as well. You clearly demonstrate that you are anything but neutral.

 

[Sick Boy]

And strangely enough I have said that I see both good and bad with staying or leaving. I have pulled up leave voters at times and agreed many times with remainers.

How about when I say about the homeless? You tried to say that there wasn't many at first. Then when you found out that there is about 3.5m you said you would come back to it.

The only time you ever come back to itis to ask me how Brexit will solve it. Brexit won't solve it. But it will continue to get worse with open borders to the EU. Especially if and when more poor countries join like Juncker wants.

Countries like Turkey?

I share your concern about the homeless in the UK but we are never going to agree on the EU issue.

 

[Sick Boy]

This might interest you SB :smuggrin:

Theresa May faces humiliation as DUP poised to side with Labour yet again

Looks like the squirming May will end up having to make u-turn #54,345.