In comparison you are probably right on that. Both Trump and Hillary were fact checked. Trump won massively on lying.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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In comparison you are probably right on that. Both Trump and Hillary were fact checked. Trump won massively on lying.
Yes, I just checked Kurz‘ and FPÕ programmes. Kurz was quite good actually. Conservative, but not right wing. Tax cuts, benefit caps, no social benefits until resident for 5 years - just maximum of 560,00 € pro Monat for migrants. No anti EU stance, but wants a strengthening of EU exterior border. FPÕ more to the right anti immigrant, more racial based policy. I didn’t find any demand for a leave referendum .... but ... they want more direct democracy which would mean more referenda in general and perhaps later about the EU. Both want tax reductions.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Are you being serious? The clintons have been associated with sleaze, financial irregularities and scandal for decades. Everyone acknowledges they could have put a tin of beans as a candidate to beat trump and the only hope he had was against the wretched and reviled Clinton.
Man you really are the gift that keeps giving.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Of course Martcov of course - nothing to do EU - we believe you.
Read the manifestos. Or a summary of what they stand for. I think you would believe them more than me. The problems with borders here are with the land borders of the EU and the lack of control of them. There are many more issues than the EU, it is only the British public that is so fanatical one way or another about the EU. Kurz programm includes better quality education including hiring teachers with migrant backgrounds, making sure migrant kids speak German before they start school, ensuring people reach a certain standard of education before they leave school. Reducing taxes on working people, chasing tax evaders, putting the total cost of employment on wage slips so the workers know what they really cost their firm, raising pensions, capping benefits per household and capping state borrowing. The EU is nowhere on that list. The extreme right FPÖ is more of a threat as they want direct democracy as a normal way of ruling the country. Referendums being great news for populists and extremists.
Well no. She was actually winning until Comey reopened the email investigation. And then closed it again shortly afterwards....
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yeah making good deals for his country instead of the bad deals they have signed in the past. Making sure cheap labour and business doesn't go to china and the Far East looking after American jobs.
What a dick!
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
So she would of won but thanks to an email investigation she lost. All that simple I guess.
As Grendel correctly says any other dem candidate including a tin of baked beans would of beat trump. She needs to blame anyone but herself as it's too embarrassing for her else. Outright denial.
He is certainly a dick. One reason is because both he and his daughter outsource to non American producers including Chinese. We’ll see what happens when what you claim actually happens, if ever. At that time you can expect some push back from China.
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She is to blame, but there is the Comey thing and the massive fake news attacks in swing states on Facebook and google which we now know were paid for from Russian accounts. We also know that the Trump campaign was better at using social media than the democrats. You are obviously pleased that a deranged liar and narcissistic idiot won and is screwing more than just the US up. Have fun.
Actually she was winning in the polls until then.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Really?
Remain had a 10 point lead in the polls the day before brexit happened. What changed their minds I wonder?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
You really had a bad year in 2016 didn't you.
I am pleased trump won over Hilary yes as I despise her like many Americans do actually. He won because of her. If she had stepped aside and let another candidate run the dems would of won but aparently trump is the narcissist. Trump whilst being an idiot at least believes in what I believe in politically such as the nation state and tax reform and American run down job outsourced towns to get back up and running again! Actually almost a year in he is doing better than most people thought and that will destroy people like you but he is getting through a lot of what he promised (not everything)
Look he is an idiot and a narcissist and even a liar on some things but which politician doesn't lie? They all do. You have only got to look at the survey done on the rating figures on the NFL since trumps intervention a few weeks ago to see actually he is proving quite the influence. Wont please sponsors and NFL owners one bit.
Astute
Well-Known Member
They were both unpopular. And Trump won the unpopular vote.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Come on Mart.
The Tories are struggling at times. They got into bed with the DUP as they were a few seats short of the majority. Now they are going against the Tories at times.
Merkel needed 4 other parties to join her. Will all 4 always agree?
The Austrians will have 2 parties. Both are anti immigration. Europe is moving to the right.
Austria turns sharply to the right in an election shaped entirely by immigration
Astute
Well-Known Member
Lies and fears?
Both sides campaigned on lies and fears. When you finally admit this point we can move on. Yes the 350m a week on the bus was really 'only' 175m a week. On the other side you had mass unemployment and house price crash if we voted leave. We now have record employment and house prices still going up.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Trump said he would build a wall to keep the Mexicans out.
Can we all see a similar thing spreading around the globe?
All the big countries in the EU are moving towards the right. Some of the smaller ones also are. The others have their residents moving to these countries.
It is becoming a problem. Look at Italy. They have the same problem. France said they would help. But the far right came second. Would they have come first if they would have helped as promised?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Germany's Social Democrats beat Merkel's conservatives in state vote
Even the parties that Merkel wants to join her say it will be difficult.
Are house prices still going up in London? Is the rate of increase ( if there is one ) the same as before Brexit? Are Syrian refugees flooding over the land borders as in Farage‘s nazi border? There is also a difference between making predictions that haven’t happened yet, largely because we are still in the EU and world growth is far better than expected, and downright lying on buses, or posting pictures of an event at the border to give the impression that people are coming to Britain who never came in massive numbers and were not aiming for Britain anyway.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
On the last night she was 6 points ahead and had an 84% chance of winning.
Seriously do some research.
The SPD is now worse off in Lower Saxony than before - although they increased their vote against the trend. The election was called because they lost their overall majority by a defection of a green to the CDU. At the latest count they are now two votes off an overall majority if they stick to red green. They will offering talks to the greens and the CDU. AfD did Merkel a favour by keeping the ex communists under the 5% hurdle.
As regards the federal government. The Jamaica coalition is very difficult because of the differences between the FDP and the greens. The CSU is already on board. It is counted as the sister party of CDU and it would be a sensation if they split from CDU. CDU do not Stand against the CSU which is only in Bavaria.
Coalitions in Germany are generally stable and work to an agreed coalition contract. So, if a contract is signed they will probably stick to it. There will have to be give and take from all sides. The Jamaica coalition is working in Schleswig-Holstein state parliament where I live. It is not impossible, but difficult. The coalition difficulties are not because of pro or anti EU or pro or anti refugees. Both Greens and FDP are pro EU and refugees, although there are some differences in handling the current problems.
Yes, but how come if a can of beans could have beaten Trump? It obviously wasn’t true as she had good support despite the insults and the lies until the very end, and despite Comey although that what was turned the tide.
We can see a similar thing spreading throughout the globe, which will end in tears if not stopped. It is also important to see that not everyone is going for right wing populism. We got wealthier and prevented wars by working together globally. To turn the clock back to solve perceived problems will recreate old ones and not build a better world. Populists tend to lie more than other politicians and fight amongst themselves. Either you accept their flawed personalities and the potential harm caused by appealing to people’s worst nature and primitive instincts, or you don’t. I don‘t.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The mistake Clinton made was not lowering herself to his standards (which wouldn’t have been a big step) and played him at his own game. Every time he said that he was going to investigate her emails when he got in and send her to jail she should have retorted with and when I get in I’ll be investigating your tax affairs and send you to jail. She made the mistake of fighting her campaign with politics and not factless smear. She obviously credited Americans with more intelligence than they collectively have.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Predictions that haven't happened yet?
If we voted leave the unemployment rate was going to shoot up. What happened was the employment rate went up to record levels. House prices were going to crash. They went up. So London prices have now slowed down. They are not crashing. There is over demand. But affordability and higher tax has had a hand in slowing it down in London. But how about the rest of the UK? They have shot up where I live.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Populists lie more than politicians? Bet it was a politician that told you that.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Shall we stick to the dodgy horsemeat pies then? You are so poor are building a case you use irrelevant matters to cloud the issue.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Self reliant.
He is not doing well. He is the least popular president- ever. The job figures just fell for the first time in many years ( tbf the hurricanes had an effect ). He claims that rise in the stock market wipes out the increase of debt under Obama. Which it obviously doesn’t. Has nothing to do with it and if Trump gets his wall, his billionaire tax relief, a huge increase in military spending, a massive increase in atom weapons, a trade war with China, México and Canada and skilled immigration falls, then the debt will spiral. I assume that you also support his anti gay, pro religion ( two religions against all others ) , calling black athletes sons of bitches, discriminating against serving members of the armed forces because of sexual preference, calling Caribbean countries lazy because they can’t cope with the biggest disaster in their history, calling people‘s leaders names over Twitter and so on and so on. What has he got through that he promised - not counting deals that he has broken, regulations that he has scrapped - but was has he done in a constructive way?
No, fact checkers and historical evidence.
Yes, but not anti EU and not impossible and not a victory for the extreme right who got half what they got in the election.
The Dax is breaking all records, the Dow Jones is breaking all records, unemployment in Germany and the US is at record low levels, house prices In Germany are rising especially in Frankfurt and Berlin, and the Eurozone is climbing out of recession. That UK hasn’t yet crashed is not surprising in these circumstances. The question is, when will the bubble burst?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
He had a good chat with the president of the US Virgin Islands though so not all bad!
California is on fire, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are decimated and Trumps spent 5 of the last 9 days playing golf.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I have never said that the majority are anti EU. You keep making that up.
Show me where I said impossible. I said difficult. So did you.
Do you actually think that I want the racist vote to get bigger? You need to go and take your head for a shake.
