Astute
Well-Known Member
They are useless at running things and are having massive budget cuts.
Butts Park Arena is new home (16 Viewers)
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They are useless at running things and are having massive budget cuts.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Is this unencumbered line banded about different to saying the club must own 100% of the freehold?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But again we don't know what happened prior to us going to Northampton. This is where the PR war comes in.
Think about what Fisher has said since he first got here about ACL. Turns out, despite most of us (myself included) ripping the piss out of him, he was right. What if he went into talks in the same manner and said to CCC I know ACL is struggling, I know they are over reliant on CCFC and we want a price that reflects that and got a response that ACL was doing fantastically and didn't need CCFC.
As much as you can say SISU didn't negotiate, how much were the council will to give?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You are told it is worth £5.5 million
You want to pay £2million.
You withhold rent in order to make it worth 2 million.
From what we are hearing now even if it was actually worth a figure in the middle. It's seems to me it was worth paying 4-5 million for it.
You take the action SISU did obe of three things happen
1) your plan works you save 3 million.
2) the seller feels aggrieved and will not sell to you under any circumstances
3) someone else does a deal.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing unless SISU win the JR and win at least 20-30 million in compensation I think the wrong strategy was chosen.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Someone put a link on that thread to an old thread. Take a look. That is unless it was two threads at the same time. You was defending SISU against people that you now say are defending them. And I found it very funny to say the least
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Unencumbered means having the freehold with all the current tenants out.
IIRC Sisu said it would be for the council to compensate.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
what was he right about exactly? or was all about a perception process with certain goals in mind?
He said ACL was worthless I believe - turns out it wasn't, even SISU were prepared to offer £2m then two years later 2.8m for 50% seems it was going up in value
what else ?
He said ACL was worthless I believe - turns out it wasn't, even SISU were prepared to offer £2m then two years later 2.8m for 50% seems it was going up in value
what else ?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Seriously?? Have you got the link by any chance? I can see why you would find it funny!!!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Equally, you are told it is worth £10 million. You want to pay £5 million.
You withhold rent in order to make it worth £5 million.
Council sells to someone else for £2m.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Fabricated nonsense.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Thanks Italia I just remember Joy saying 100% freehold as she cannot work with the council in anyway or form. Hence why the 125 year or 250 year lease doesn't make sense to me. With that in place she still has the Council involved be it a minor role.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
He said the rent was too high and ACL were over-reliant on CCFC. He also said the bank were getting twitchy about the loan.
Is anyone going to argue that the rent wasn't too high?
There's a strong case ACL were over-reliant on CCFC hence the changes when they were no longer getting our rent they apparently didn't need.
If the bank weren't getting twitchy about the loan why the need for a bail out from CCC?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
You mean people like the hotel operators and the beer suppliers? :thinking about:
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree that's what happened. I think Wasps benefited from the hostile negotiation approach. I think the decision to take that action resulted in a combination of options 2-3. I think if the clock got wound back SISU would probably now pay 7-8 million for all of ACL and it would still be better than the current situation.
That is unless they are really confident about getting compensation.
That is unless they are really confident about getting compensation.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I ignore any PR games and look at what has happened and why. SISU wanted CCC to wipe out the loan and take the stadium over. They were like some on here that 'knew' that nobody else would be interested in a football stadium in Coventry. And they 'knew' for sure when they saw the backlash from us and the lack of support when they took us to Northampton.
They didn't try to negotiate properly so never found out. Wasps negotiated and found out.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The council have stated on record they would never sell to them and not consider any offers from them.
Nice try though.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Before SISU's negotiation tactics? Or as a result off?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You saw the thread. Go back to it again. Took me long enough to get to the end of this one. On my phone and supposed to be getting ready for work
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Again no evidence they needed to negotiated and were not actually approached by the council while the club were still at the Ricoh.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You really don't understand the basics, do you?
CCC weren't owed any money originally. ACL owed the money to Yorkshire Bank.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Think everyone knew the rent was too high. Wouldn't dispute that it was. Hardly a vindication of TF though
The bank was getting twitchy and yet sent a letter saying they were not willing to discount a settlement figure to 12m because they felt there was a viable business there in view of the restructuring being done.
Yes they were over reliant on CCFC and yet still kept going when CCFC moved to Sixfields. Trouble is in doing that it attracted others. Yes cash flow was tight but they survived 2.5 years after CCFC stopped paying the contractual rent
It was all about creating a public perception to apply pressure to sell up cheaply to the apparently only game in town............ except it wasn't the only one
They wanted the Ricoh without ACL that's what they meant by unencumbered and that applied to freehold or leasehold. They didn't need ACL because they were bringing in AIG ...... so they were not going to pay for ACL if at all possible and if they did it would be an absolute minimum. Trouble with that was because of all the interlinking contracts they also knew CCC/AEHC couldn't do that it would have cost a fortune to unravel ACL and neither CCC or AEHC wanted administration and the losses that would bring. All part of applying pressure which would have worked had there been no other option
Nothing wrong with their tactics I don't see any laws broken ....... all is fair in love and war as they say....... but only one company went in to administration and two companies were liquidated ..... both controlled by TF & SISU. They tried to talk the value of ACL down after applying financial pressure. Their plan for their investors almost worked but in the end failed badly
I think people forget where this started, who started it, how the legal process was used and the actual events not personalities. March 2012 is a very interesting time in the process
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Er...yes!
Even PWKH apparently stated in a private Higgs memo that the rent was "always unaffordable".
Even PWKH apparently stated in a private Higgs memo that the rent was "always unaffordable".
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Question – A resident asked if there were any proposals to dispose of the Ricoh arena,or if not, any plans for a station near the arena to improve connections with the citycentre.
Answer - Councillor Mutton said there was definitely no intention of disposing of theRicoh arena which was very much an asset for the people of Coventry and currentlygenerating profits that were reducing the level of its mortgage. It is clear that thefootball club will not return to the Ricoh arena unless the ground and surrounding land issold, so attention was now turning to how more use could be made of the arena as aconference venue. There had been a record number of events including conferencesand exhibitions held at the arena this year.
Consideration was being given to how developing the land around the Ricoh arena withhotel accommodation might increase the opportunities for larger conferences.Councillor Mutton outlined the current position regarding a railway station at the Ricoharena and explained that permissions and funding were in place but Network Rail’srequirements for a loop line (allowing trains to terminate and for slow moving trains tobe moved into a siding so faster trains could pass) had slowed the pace of progress. Itwas hoped that a station would be up and running in 2016. Land surrounding the arenawas “brownfield” and development would be targeted for job creation rather thanhousing.
Answer - Councillor Mutton said there was definitely no intention of disposing of theRicoh arena which was very much an asset for the people of Coventry and currentlygenerating profits that were reducing the level of its mortgage. It is clear that thefootball club will not return to the Ricoh arena unless the ground and surrounding land issold, so attention was now turning to how more use could be made of the arena as aconference venue. There had been a record number of events including conferencesand exhibitions held at the arena this year.
Consideration was being given to how developing the land around the Ricoh arena withhotel accommodation might increase the opportunities for larger conferences.Councillor Mutton outlined the current position regarding a railway station at the Ricoharena and explained that permissions and funding were in place but Network Rail’srequirements for a loop line (allowing trains to terminate and for slow moving trains tobe moved into a siding so faster trains could pass) had slowed the pace of progress. Itwas hoped that a station would be up and running in 2016. Land surrounding the arenawas “brownfield” and development would be targeted for job creation rather thanhousing.
Sounds great. How are we doing?
Astute
Well-Known Member
And why was that?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
SISU tried underhand tactics on something that didn't belong to them. They took the piss out of everyone including us. So CCC took on the debt.
Not saying it was the right decision to make. But people you disagree with are not as thick as you hoped them to be.
Origianally they were in cahoots and wanted to knock the YB together. At that stage it must have been possible to work something out should the YB not play ball. If you are coniving together, then you have some sort of trust relationship. When the YB didn't fall for it, then they seem to have fallen out and both sides tried to pull a fast one on each other. The council had the ultimate power as they held the freehold - and still do.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Jesus Nicks earnt a few bob from this
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Came out in the JR and referenced here ...
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/what-now-know-ricoh-arena-6950053
Extract ...
Coventry City bosses say they will never return to the Ricoh Arena on a rent-only basis and want the unencumbered freehold of the Ricoh Arena. That appears to mean ownership of the Ricoh Arena without ACL operating the venue.
The council has made it clear the unencumbered freehold of the stadium - which it owns - is not for sale.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I thought they said they would consider any 'reasonable' offer for ACL and that the freehold was not for sale.
But based on your evidence I could be wrong.
Oh hold on ......... I'm right.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Must be a lie made up by the CT to sell papers
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Confirmed by Joy at the Village hotel if I recall
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