Butts Park Arena is new home (28 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

Yep, wasps aren't going to say no, they have £2m pa interest to payout, as well as funding a rugby team.


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Have we not got £2M a year interest to pay out and nothing to show for it ?

 

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[chiefdave]

Have we not got £2M a year interest to pay out and nothing to show for it ?

No we haven't got £2m a year interest to pay out.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

It's not being paid out. You have been told this. OSB has explained. Leave the scaremongering to the CET.

 

[stupot07]

Have we not got £2M a year interest to pay out and nothing to show for it ?

Nope. And I'm not sure what that has to do with whether wasps will or won't let have another rental deal in 2 years time.


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[Nick]

Have we not got £2M a year interest to pay out and nothing to show for it ?

Facts again...

Maybe people are so angry because they are so misinformed, reminds me of that psb group who would keep going on about things that didn't happen to get people angry.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

One would of thought that the only way forward was to be in consultation with any council that own the land that may be available, which ever that may be. Trying to get 20k in to a city centre stadium on a Saturday afternoon will not work full stop and will probably not be allowed any way. Sisu have burnt their bridges with our council but their may be others out their that would entertain them with land that buts up to the city boundaries some where? Sisu has a legal right to have their day in court, the club will be saddled with the costs not them but if they win and get damages it may be the out they are looking for. I just hope that they can agree a long term deal with the wasps with some kind of buy in, the club needs stability off the pitch now TM has restored it on the playing side. No more talking of stadiums and he said she said with false promises and quango type committee's, conduct your business in quiet and tell people what they need to know when they need to know it. PUSB

 

[Moff]

I'm trying.
I just wish people would not let Sisu off the hook with this nonsense.
All this is a deflection from getting some facts on our future.

I'm not knocking your passion here. We all want what is best for our club, primarily SISU gone and having our own ground.

I just felt that we appear to be going round in circles on this thread, and regardless of what we do or say, our owners wont keep us in the loop. All we can do is support our team, and those that do have been first class this season.

 

[Kneeza]

If you go there and have a look at the existing stand, basic though it is it appears to hold about 5,000. There's room on the opposite side to expand, so building a 20,000 seat stadium there is technically quite feasible I would have thought. I'm not advocating it, just saying it looks possible.

It holds approx 3000, and quite a few of those are designated as 'dugouts'.
The West Stand (if ever built) has the potential for around 5000 seats as it would be able to build deeper than the existing East Stand (almost to the park, but leaving an access track between the building and the existing perimeter fence).
The railway end is constrained in area but was originally mooted to be a site for a multi-storey car park with some viewing attached to it.
The Butts Road end could potentially house a large seated stand if the multi-storey was built to compensate for the loss of car parking.
All in, it still ain't going to be big enough for football, but could be considerably larger (capacity-wise) for rugby as there is no requirement to confine spectators to seating/fenced areas etc.

It ain't gonna happen.

(edited for splegging errrror).

 

[wingy]

One would of thought that the only way forward was to be in consultation with any council that own the land that may be available, which ever that may be. Trying to get 20k in to a city centre stadium on a Saturday afternoon will not work full stop and will probably not be allowed any way. Sisu have burnt their bridges with our council but their may be others out their that would entertain them with land that buts up to the city boundaries some where? Sisu has a legal right to have their day in court, the club will be saddled with the costs not them but if they win and get damages it may be the out they are looking for. I just hope that they can agree a long term deal with the wasps with some kind of buy in, the club needs stability off the pitch now TM has restored it on the playing side. No more talking of stadiums and he said she said with false promises and quango type committee's, conduct your business in quiet and tell people what they need to know when they need to know it. PUSB

Yes we're benefitting from the lighter touch re communication and in Fishers case zero,long may that last.
Unfortunately we know there are going to be times that prompt hackles to rise such as Council Ethics Committee /JR,spuriously timed Stadium announcements and denials. Comfort ourselves that one day it will be over.
We are on a smashing ride at the moment and I would advise to let all this Negative shit wash over our collective heads, none of us will have any real bearing on any of the likely outcomes.

 

[Otis]

It holds approx 3000, and quite a few of those are designated as 'dugouts'.
The West Stand (if ever built) has the potential for around 5000 seats as it would be able to build deeper than the existing East Stand (almost to the park, but leaving an access track between the building and the existing perimeter fence).
The railway end is constrained in area but was originally mooted to be a site for a multi-storey car park with some viewing attached to it.
The Butts Road end could potentially house a large seated stand if the multi-storey was built to compensate for the loss of car parking.
All in, it still ain't going to be big enough for football, but could be considerably larger (capacity-wise) for rugby as there is no requirement to confine spectators to seating/fenced areas etc.

It ain't gonna happen.

(edited for splegging errrror).

Totally agree. As has been said before, at a push it could maybe expand to 12,000 seater, maybe 15,000 tops, but that's it.

If you look at the stand currently in place there is absolutely no room whatsoever to expand that. It can't go any deeper as there is literally no room behind it.

People talk or rotating the pitch, but even with that, with all the constraints you will never get a large enough stadium to incorporate the City.

Just not feasible at all. Unless of course we are thinking in terms of our future being that of going down to League Two or the Conference.

 

[italiahorse]

No we haven't got £2m a year interest to pay out.

It's not being paid out. You have been told this. OSB has explained. Leave the scaremongering to the CET.

Nope. And I'm not sure what that has to do with whether wasps will or won't let have another rental deal in 2 years time.


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Facts again...

Maybe people are so angry because they are so misinformed, reminds me of that psb group who would keep going on about things that didn't happen to get people angry.

Although it's not being paid out, surely it's just adding to the debt and at one point they will expect it.
Could also stop someone buying us from Sisu as debt is an indication of the business.
I admit that I may be skeptical but I'm unsure how this affects our future.

 

[Nick]

Although it's not being paid out, surely it's just adding to the debt and at one point they will expect it.
Could also stop someone buying us from Sisu as debt is an indication of the business.
I admit that I may be skeptical but I'm unsure how this affects our future.

So it isn't being paid out then is it?

I am no expert but wouldn't one of the "benefits" of them doing that is to stop any sort of takeover attempts?

 

[italiahorse]

So it isn't being paid out then is it?

I am no expert but wouldn't one of the "benefits" of them doing that is to stop any sort of takeover attempts?

Surely at some point it will be ?

 

[Nick]

Surely at some point it will be ?

Will it?

So it has gone from £2m being paid out every year to "maybe one day"?

 

[dongonzalos]

Actions do indeed speak louder than words but they guy has only been here a few weeks so I think he deserves a bit of time to stand or fall on his own actions.

I get what you say about handovers etc but if I was in Anderson's situation I'm not sure I'd stake my reputation on anything Fisher has come up with - if he's actually come up with anything.

Everything he says makes sense to me but of course he has to follow through with these comments. We've been asking for a long time to someone to look at all options and that's what he's saying he will do. I'm not going to slaughter the guy before he's had a chance.



We have another 2 years at the Ricoh. That's more than enough time for him to come up with a plan. If the plan is to stay then we will either sign a long term deal or sign a short deal while the longer term arrangements to stay are sorted.

If the plan is to leave then a shorter term contract to stay at the Ricoh will have to be agreed. The ball then is really in Wasps court, will they agree to a shorter term deal or will they kick us out.

Dave he is saying we shouldn't sign a two deal it is too short it is nothing. We need a long term deal whether it is the Ricoh or new stadium.
Then he goes and signs the two year deal.
If it is a new stadium the way we have gone so far it would be at least 5 years. Plus where are the answers the the other questions.
If it is to be a long term deal at the Ricoh then get it signed up.
He has done exactky what he said we shouldn't do.
It works both ways we are giving Wasos two years come up with a different solution to us.
We played this game before believing no one else would want the Ricoh = hello Wasps.
Without the explanations of how we can actually find this stadium and why after three years we have just a picture. I think Wasps probably have worked out a new stadium isn't happening.
So at some point they will work out a viable option to not having CCFC there.
Then they will probably say 10 year deal or go.
Wish we woul just get on with negotiating the 10 year deal now and stop wasting everybody's time with new stadiums talk.

To be fair they have done well to drag the bluff out with only producing a picture so far!! ( just my opinion of course)

Really am disappointed in our local media not getting to the bottom of this.

 

[chiefdave]

Dave he is saying we shouldn't sign a two deal it is too short it is nothing. We need a long term deal whether it is the Ricoh or new stadium.
Then he goes and signs the two year deal.

Doesn't read like that to me at all. Reads to me as he is looking at all available options to come up with the best plan. Clearly that's not going to be done in 5 minutes so while he is doing that they have activated the 2 year extension on the current Ricoh deal. Doesn't mean he's a fan of short term deals or that he thinks we should sign up 2 years at a time forever.

Personally I suspect Fisher had done bugger all and it was all a bluff. Now they really do have to do something and have got this chap in to look over all the options.

 

[stupot07]

Dave he is saying we shouldn't sign a two deal it is too short it is nothing. We need a long term deal whether it is the Ricoh or new stadium.
Then he goes and signs the two year deal.
If it is a new stadium the way we have gone so far it would be at least 5 years. Plus where are the answers the the other questions.
If it is to be a long term deal at the Ricoh then get it signed up.
He has done exactky what he said we shouldn't do.
It works both ways we are giving Wasos two years come up with a different solution to us.
We played this game before believing no one else would want the Ricoh = hello Wasps.
Without the explanations of how we can actually find this stadium and why after three years we have just a picture. I think Wasps probably have worked out a new stadium isn't happening.
So at some point they will work out a viable option to not having CCFC there.
Then they will probably say 10 year deal or go.
Wish we woul just get on with negotiating the 10 year deal now and stop wasting everybody's time with new stadiums talk.

To be fair they have done well to drag the bluff out with only producing a picture so far!! ( just my opinion of course)

Really am disappointed in our local media not getting to the bottom of this.

The 2 year deal was already negotiated and in place just needing to be signed. This buys Anderson more time to weigh up the options and make an informed choice on our future, and get the JR out of the way.

We will never get as good a deal when we finally negotiate a longer stay, wasps will want more rent and probably more access to revenues that the current deal that the previous owners of ACL agreed.

He never said he wouldn't do a short term deal, he said it wasn't ideal moving forward.


This makes perfect sense.

Yes it gives time wasps to find an alternative to us. What are the options for them?
- Another football club? Very unlikely even on a temporary deal.
- another rugby club? Wasps won't want that as they will be in direct competitions or fans
- Rugby League? Can't see it myself, it's a northern game who has a loyal fan base. Also their season goes from Apr to October so wouldn't particular stop us from play there
- a PL U21's? They play week days usually in the day time so no competition.
- hockey? Played on AstroTurf these days
- American football? nope.


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[shmmeee]

Will it?

So it has gone from £2m being paid out every year to "maybe one day"?

To be fair to Italia, if my wife runs up the credit card, I'm not paying it out but sure as hell counts towards my debt.

 

[Nick]

To be fair to Italia, if my wife runs up the credit card, I'm not paying it out but sure as hell counts towards my debt.

But then you wouldn't keep saying that you are paying x out every month that you weren't. Plus the debt isn't to yourself

 

[shmmeee]

The 2 year deal was already negotiated and in place just needing to be signed. This buys Anderson more time to weigh up the options and make an informed choice on our future, and get the JR out of the way.

We will never get as good a deal when we finally negotiate a longer stay, wasps will want more rent and probably more access to revenues that the current deal that the previous owners of ACL agreed.

He never said he wouldn't do a short term deal, he said it wasn't ideal moving forward.


This makes perfect sense.

Yes it gives time wasps to find an alternative to us. What are the options for them?
- Another football club? Very unlikely even on a temporary deal.
- another rugby club? Wasps won't want that as they will be in direct competitions or fans
- Rugby League? Can't see it myself, it's a northern game who has a loyal fan base. Also their season goes from Apr to October so wouldn't particular stop us from play there
- a PL U21's? They play week days usually in the day time so no competition.
- hockey? Played on AstroTurf these days
- American football? nope.


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Trying for am unloaded question here, may fail miserably.

Are you seriously happy to hang the future of our club on what a third party may or may not do?

The obsession with Wasps on here and this morbid desire for them to fail so those who backed Sisus plans can feel vindicated is kinda sad and more to the point not a realistic way to run a business.

We can't go around like some bitter ex. We chose to give up the Ricoh, we chose not to buy it, we chose a two year deal. It's all on us. If we did all this before finding out if we had any other options again it's on us.

 

[shmmeee]

But then you wouldn't keep saying that you are paying x out every month that you weren't. Plus the debt isn't to yourself

I might, if I was Otis and just really wanted to paint my wife as a monster

 

[Nick]

Are you seriously happy to hang the future of our club on what a third party may or may not do?

I think we have been relying on third parties for years

 

[chiefdave]

Are you seriously happy to hang the future of our club on what a third party may or may not do?

I want someone to look at all possible options and tell us the best way forward. If that chosen way forward restricts us to a certain level I want to know that as well.

This new chap has said he's going to look at everything before making long term commitments. I'm happy with that. He seems to know his stuff and I struggle to imagine he's come here to be a SISU fall guy. Of course if, as his time here continues, it turns out nothing is happening and we're getting meaningless statement after meaningless statement then I will no longer be happy with his actions but I'm not going to write him off so soon after he's arrived.

 

[stupot07]

Trying for am unloaded question here, may fail miserably.

Are you seriously happy to hang the future of our club on what a third party may or may not do?

.

Haven't we been relying on what a third party does or doesn't do for years?

Like Dave I want someone who had a bit of nous to look properly at all options, including where that leaves us. Then tell us what those options are, what the limitations of those options, the benefits and the costs.

The obsession with Wasps on here and this morbid desire for them to fail so those who backed Sisus plans can feel vindicated is kinda sad

And I think you're being unkind here. I think the majority of Ccfc fans would like wasps to fail if it meant we could get the Ricoh (whoever our owners are).

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[skybluetony176]

I want someone to look at all possible options and tell us the best way forward. If that chosen way forward restricts us to a certain level I want to know that as well.

This new chap has said he's going to look at everything before making long term commitments. I'm happy with that. He seems to know his stuff and I struggle to imagine he's come here to be a SISU fall guy. Of course if, as his time here continues, it turns out nothing is happening and we're getting meaningless statement after meaningless statement then I will no longer be happy with his actions but I'm not going to write him off so soon after he's arrived.

Wasn't that already done when it was decided we are building our new staium 3 years ago?

From what the new chap has said it sounds as though that wasn't done 3 years ago and it's something that is only now starting to happen since his arrival.

It just isn't good enough. I'm not blaming the new chap for that but the blame for that can only fall at SISU's feet.

 

[italiahorse]

Will it?

So it has gone from £2m being paid out every year to "maybe one day"?

I'm asking the question but you seem very protective of Sisu.
Does it accrue up and then get paid ? Was an accrued amount of £2.6M not paid out of SBSL in 2014 accounts?
You don't seem bothered that it's putting debt into the club at a rate of 10% plus.

 

[italiahorse]

I think the majority of Ccfc fans would like wasps to fail if it meant we could get the Ricoh (whoever our owners are)

The problem is that I'm unsure whether Sisu would take it with the loan so would that mean a battle with CCC starts again to stress ACL out of business.

If we had some clear direction from the club that we were building a new stadium would fans still want Wasps and the Ricoh to fail ?.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What loan?

 

[Nick]

I'm asking the question but you seem very protective of Sisu.
Does it accrue up and then get paid ? Was an accrued amount of £2.6M not paid out of SBSL in 2014 accounts?
You don't seem bothered that it's putting debt into the club at a rate of 10% plus.

Who is being protective? I am just not making shit up like you are.

You are making statements that they are paying it, surely you should know what is doing?

CCFC would either have to be making shed loads of money to pay it back, or if they did a takeover they would probably take a p for the £ deal wouldn't they?

 

[chiefdave]

Wasn't that already done when it was decided we are building our new staium 3 years ago?

From what the new chap has said it sounds as though that wasn't done 3 years ago and it's something that is only now starting to happen since his arrival.

I have no idea if it was done 3 years ago. If it was it certainly wasn't made known to us. Of course it should have been but in Anderson's positon would you trust anything Fisher had come up with that is potentially 3 years out of date? As Anderson said the situation now is different, the Ricoh has new owners and that has to be taken into account.

Would I like to see Fisher fired? Of course, I get the feeling he's being pushed aside anyway without an announcement being made. We don't hear from him now and he was shuffled sideways to sort concentrate on the new stadium which Anderson now seems to be doing.

 

[chiefdave]

Does it accrue up and then get paid ? Was an accrued amount of £2.6M not paid out of SBSL in 2014 accounts?
You don't seem bothered that it's putting debt into the club at a rate of 10% plus.

It accrue's until it gets paid or written off. In this instance written off, or a least negociated down, is the most likely. Basically the same as when SISU turned up. They didn't pay everything off, they made a p in the £ offer.

According to acounts, well OSB's post about the accounts, SISU have put in £28.6m. They started putting money in at some point in 2008 (£11.03m) and haven't put anything in since 2012. It wasn't until 2012 that they started charging interest. Would seem a safe assumption that this was the point at which Joy got directly involved and started trying to sort the mess out. All that has been paid out is £1.125m which seems to relate to Ranson leaving / sale of Prozone

ARVO have put in a furhter £13.3 and are charging interest, seemingly at over 10% which is of course high but then lending to CCFC would be high risk. Maybe the council could offer one of those low cost loans they offered ACL.

Where have you got that £2.6m was paid out in 2014? Are you looking at a transfer between group companies?

The problem is that I'm unsure whether Sisu would take it with the loan so would that mean a battle with CCC starts again to stress ACL out of business.

What loan? The loan to CCC has been repaid. If Wasps fail or just decide to leave it won't be down to the new leaseholders to pay the bonds.

 

[stupot07]

The problem is that I'm unsure whether Sisu would take it with the loan so would that mean a battle with CCC starts again to stress ACL out of business.

If we had some clear direction from the club that we were building a new stadium would fans still want Wasps and the Ricoh to fail ?.

Yes, I think they would. Not necessary the Ricoh but wasp they would IMO. They are direct competitors for leisure time money in the Coventry and are competing to snare the next generation of potential fans into rugby (wasps) not football (Ccfc).


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[chiefdave]

What are we calling 'fail'? My ideal scenario is Wasps bugger off back to London and we get the stadium at a reasonable cost (sure we can have lots of debate over what is reasonable).

If we have a new stadium I would still want the same as I don't think they should be here. I'm sure they have some decent fans back in London so I don't really have any desire for them to cease to exist, just go back to where they shoudl be.

 

[italiahorse]

What loan?

Doh . Yes of course.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I'm asking the question but you seem very protective of Sisu.
Does it accrue up and then get paid ? Was an accrued amount of £2.6M not paid out of SBSL in 2014 accounts?
You don't seem bothered that it's putting debt into the club at a rate of 10% plus.

I've said before, the numbers are irrelevant, the club is only worth what it is worth. There is only so much cake!

The only thing this accumulating debt is doing is transferring the proportion of ownership from SISU in favour of ARVO.