Brussels (9 Viewers)

[Samo]

See, wasn't that difficult was it. I wasn't after a bite, You've actually given a clear well thought out reply there. And for the most part agree with you. I didn't want us to go into Iraq, probably neither did those who are currently being scraped off the walls of Brussels airport check in area, so this whole we reap what we sow stuff I'm not having.

Neither did I, but I did vote for Blair, there is a collective responsibility. But when I say 'we' am really referring to the Western world.

 

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[Philosoraptor]

Just going to drop this here. The problem with fundamentalist/extremist faith is not just worldwide but in this country as well.

[video=youtube;2gqhlRdOxJg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gqhlRdOxJg[/video]

 

[Samo]

Just going to drop this here. The problem with fundamentalist/extremist faith is not just worldwide but in this country as well.

[video=youtube;2gqhlRdOxJg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gqhlRdOxJg[/video]

To be fair though, they are not blowing the shite of us and are not likely to.

 

[Samo]

The threat we face is from the lowlife scumbag losers who live amongst us. And thanks to Merkels’ mad open door policy and senseless Schengen Agreement, there are more than ever amongst us.

And we’re way too soft on them. Take the example of Salah Abdeslam, Europe’s most wanted man in connection with the Paris massacres, finally arrested 10 days ago and who has chosen to exercise his right to silence. WTF? Right to Silence? He should be tortured until he tells everything he knows. Bollox to his rights.

Same with the known ‘Hate Preachers’ and activists in the UK. They’re known to the authorities. We all know they want to do us harm. Arrest them. Lock them up, remove the threat. Bollox to their rights.

You know I was just thinking... what this debate really needs now is an utter fuckwit who believes people should be tortured and has no respect for anyone's rights. (except his own I'm sure)

 

[Otis]

The threat we face is from the lowlife scumbag losers who live amongst us. And thanks to Merkels’ mad open door policy and senseless Schengen Agreement, there are more than ever amongst us.

And we’re way too soft on them. Take the example of Salah Abdeslam, Europe’s most wanted man in connection with the Paris massacres, finally arrested 10 days ago and who has chosen to exercise his right to silence. WTF? Right to Silence? He should be tortured until he tells everything he knows. Bollox to his rights.

Same with the known ‘Hate Preachers’ and activists in the UK. They’re known to the authorities. We all know they want to do us harm. Arrest them. Lock them up, remove the threat. Bollox to their rights.

And if they prove to be innocent?

 

[Sick Boy]

You know I was just thinking... what this debate really needs now is an utter fuckwit who believes people should be tortured and has no respect for anyone's rights. (except his own I'm sure)

Haha exactly and he just shows himself to more like the extremists.

 

[Sick Boy]

The threat we face is from the lowlife scumbag losers who live amongst us. And thanks to Merkels’ mad open door policy and senseless Schengen Agreement, there are more than ever amongst us.

And we’re way too soft on them. Take the example of Salah Abdeslam, Europe’s most wanted man in connection with the Paris massacres, finally arrested 10 days ago and who has chosen to exercise his right to silence. WTF? Right to Silence? He should be tortured until he tells everything he knows. Bollox to his rights.

Same with the known ‘Hate Preachers’ and activists in the UK. They’re known to the authorities. We all know they want to do us harm. Arrest them. Lock them up, remove the threat. Bollox to their rights.

Can't we do the same to you? You obviously don't believe in modern western valyes and are clearly a danger.

 

[Macca]

Ok this is for once by and large a decent debate so let me put this into the mix.
1/ Brussels type attack "don't put all muslims in the same basket". I agree normal muslims should not come to harm as a result of this.
2/ Idiot western leaders bomb middle east. Normal westerners kind of have to suffer death and being maimed because of a collective responsibility.

Doesn't seem to stack up.
Were any of the poor fuckers decapitated on video asked their views on western foreign policy?

I struggle to see any rationale here, and refer to earlier comments, they hate us because we are not them, end of story

 

[lifeskyblue]

Stop interfering in the Middle East.

Even for humanitarian reasons? To prevent minorities being attacked? I think more care could / should be shown but 'interfering' is a loaded word. Some interference may be seen as positive.
This is far more complex than any simple solution. We have people who now live in Britain, Europe and the USA from the Middle East. They may demand interference to support their family, their country and their religion.

 

[Samo]

Ok this is for once by and large a decent debate so let me put this into the mix.
1/ Brussels type attack "don't put all muslims in the same basket". I agree normal muslims should not come to harm as a result of this.
2/ Idiot western leaders bomb middle east. Normal westerners kind of have to suffer death and being maimed because of a collective responsibility.

Doesn't seem to stack up.
Were any of the poor fuckers decapitated on video asked their views on western foreign policy?

I struggle to see any rationale here, and refer to earlier comments, they hate us because we are not them, end of story

But it never has stacked up, the world is not a fair place. Unfortunately those making poor decisions are rarely those paying the price.

 

[Samo]

Oh dear, what an utterly moronic response but then you do have form.

You accuse me of having ‘No respect for anyone’s rights’. Where did I say that? Do grow up please.

I have absolute respect for everyones’ rights but none for those such as Salah Abdeslam who are known to be responsible for the murder of 130 innocents in Paris. He has no rights as far as I’m concerned.

You clearly disagree and I can only deduce that you think it’s acceptable for him to choose to remain silent.

That’s precisely the soft liberalist standpoint that gives scumbags such as Abdeslam, his mates and many others such as the Lee Rigby killers, the environment they need to maim and kill.

Get tough on them. Lock ‘em up.

Have a great evening.

 

[Samo]

Oh dear, what an utterly moronic response but then you do have form.

You accuse me of having ‘No respect for anyone’s rights’. Where did I say that? Do grow up please.

I have absolute respect for everyones’ rights but none for those such as Salah Abdeslam who are known to be responsible for the murder of 130 innocents in Paris. He has no rights as far as I’m concerned.

You clearly disagree and I can only deduce that you think it’s acceptable for him to choose to remain silent.

That’s precisely the soft liberalist standpoint that gives scumbags such as Abdeslam, his mates and many others such as the Lee Rigby killers, the environment they need to maim and kill.

Get tough on them. Lock ‘em up.

Have a great evening.

You can't pick and choose who has rights you plum! :facepalm:

 

[M&B Stand]

Neither did I, but I did vote for Blair, there is a collective responsibility. But when I say 'we' am really referring to the Western world.

A lot of us voted for Blair and thought it was a good idea at the time mate. We shouldn't feel any guilt about subsequent world events. Blame the cunts who did it. Ultimate responsibility lies with them.

 

[Otis]

Yep! Guilty as charged, I voted Blair too.

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Samo]

A lot of us voted for Blair and thought it was a good idea at the time mate. We shouldn't feel any guilt about subsequent world events. Blame the cunts who did it. Ultimate responsibility lies with them.

A simplistic view in my opinion. However, I'm not saying we should feel guilty, after all, we could not have foreseen that. We cannot escape the fact though, that we took part in a system which elected a western leader who then took actions that have contributed to today's state of affairs.

 

[Macca]

Is it though, its the same as the valid point of not blaming your average muslim for the actions of extremists or blaming evey Irishman for a minority of gun toting paramilitary groups. If anyone I know is ever killed in a Brussels type attack I sure as hell won't be blaming myself for voting labour once

 

[Samo]

Is it though, its the same as the valid point of not blaming your average muslim for the actions of extremists or blaming evey Irishman for a minority of gun toting paramilitary groups. If anyone I know is ever killed in a Brussels type attack I sure as hell won't be blaming myself for voting labour once

Good for you, nor will I, it was somebody else's vote that counted, not mine.
It does highlight though, the importance of voting and being politically aware enough to realize that our collective votes could have a dramatic effect on world affairs. (A little reminder for our American cousins)

 

[M&B Stand]

A simplistic view in my opinion.However, I'm not saying we should feel guilty, after all, we could not have foreseen that. We cannot escape the fact though, that we took part in a system which elected a western leader who then took actions that have contributed to today's state of affairs.

I'm a simplistic kinda fella, you can't be expected to know that from an anonymous football Internet forum. I'm more Karl Pilkington than Karl Marx.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Missing the overall point a little but absolutely agree we should actively take part in our local and national politics for the common good.

I don't feel guilty for voting for Blair I was extremely pissed off he ignored a massive protest and still went ahead with the gulf war killing many civilians and leaving. Vacuum in Iraq.

Someone once said if we are not part of the solution we are part of the problem. So with that in mind what can we do?

 

[Samo]

I'm a simplistic kinda fella, you can't be expected to know that from an anonymous football Internet forum. I'm more Karl Pilkington than Karl Marx.

I'm closer to Marx ideologically but Pilkington IQ wise.

 

[Samo]

Missing the overall point a little but absolutely agree we should actively take part in our local and national politics for the common good.

I don't feel guilty for voting for Blair I was extremely pissed off he ignored a massive protest and still went ahead with the gulf war killing many civilians and leaving. Vacuum in Iraq.

Someone once said if we are not part of the solution we are part of the problem. So with that in mind what can we do?

Vote with a good heart and good conscience for those we believe will not lead us to destruction and encourage others to do the same.

 

[Macca]

Good for you, nor will I, it was somebody else's vote that counted, not mine.
It does highlight though, the importance of voting and being politically aware enough to realize that our collective votes could have a dramatic effect on world affairs. (A little reminder for our American cousins)

I doubt any of the serious parties would have done much different though.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ok this is for once by and large a decent debate so let me put this into the mix.
1/ Brussels type attack "don't put all muslims in the same basket". I agree normal muslims should not come to harm as a result of this.
2/ Idiot western leaders bomb middle east. Normal westerners kind of have to suffer death and being maimed because of a collective responsibility.

Doesn't seem to stack up.
Were any of the poor fuckers decapitated on video asked their views on western foreign policy?

I struggle to see any rationale here, and refer to earlier comments, they hate us because we are not them, end of story

I can completely understand why some of them detest the hypocrisy of the west. If my family had been murdered by bombs dropped by countries from thousands of miles away, I imagine i'd be pretty pissed off and wouldn't be difficult to radicalise.

 

[Sick Boy]

Even for humanitarian reasons? To prevent minorities being attacked? I think more care could / should be shown but 'interfering' is a loaded word. Some interference may be seen as positive.
This is far more complex than any simple solution. We have people who now live in Britain, Europe and the USA from the Middle East. They may demand interference to support their family, their country and their religion.

Apologies, all for humanitarian efforts and those who go over there and not given nearly enough coverage or recognition for the bravery.

 

[Samo]

I doubt any of the serious parties would have done much different though.

You are almost certainly right and if we don't fancy the responsibility of what they might do in our name, should we vote at all?
In the absence of a party with any real chance of power that would not have gone down that route, what are we ordinary folk to do?

 

[Grendel]

Ok this is for once by and large a decent debate so let me put this into the mix.
1/ Brussels type attack "don't put all muslims in the same basket". I agree normal muslims should not come to harm as a result of this.
2/ Idiot western leaders bomb middle east. Normal westerners kind of have to suffer death and being maimed because of a collective responsibility.

Doesn't seem to stack up.
Were any of the poor fuckers decapitated on video asked their views on western foreign policy?

I struggle to see any rationale here, and refer to earlier comments, they hate us because we are not them, end of story

Of course the original infringement into this area was from the Soviet Union who received no consequences and reprisals at all.

Nothing I'm sure to do with the fact they they have not dabbled with a multi cultural society.

Our approach to terrorism in the past is an open invite to loony tunes who want to play with bombs. I'm sure Bin Laden thought his invite for tea and biscuits round number 10 was only just around the corner.

I do wonder how the likes of Adams and Mcguiness would have faired if Moscow and not Birmingham was their target. Not so well I would guess.

 

[Macca]

You are almost certainly right and if we don't fancy the responsibility of what they might do in our name, should we vote at all?
In the absence of a party with any real chance of power that would not have gone down that route, what are we ordinary folk to do?

Yes the problem is that as tempting as an alternative minority party may be you always have to question their ability to govern. Trouble is how will they ever get the ability without the experience

 

[Grendel]

It is also amusing that the liberals amongst us blame Blair for his intervention in Iraq but conveniently overlook the ritualistic slaughter of its inhabitants by a despotic and brutal regime. I assume they are comfortable that such regimes exist and thrive. Not very liberal really is it.

 

[Samo]

Of course the original infringement into this area was from the Soviet Union who received no consequences and reprisals at all.

Nothing I'm sure to do with the fact they they have not dabbled with a multi cultural society.

Our approach to terrorism in the past is an open invite to loony tunes who want to play with bombs. I'm sure Bin Laden thought his invite for tea and biscuits round number 10 was only just around the corner.

I do wonder how the likes of Adams and Mcguiness would have faired if Moscow and not Birmingham was their target. Not so well I would guess.

So what are you saying G? Our multiculturalism is to blame? We should be more like Russia? What?

 

[Samo]

It is also amusing that the liberals amongst us blame Blair for his intervention in Iraq but conveniently overlook the ritualistic slaughter of its inhabitants by a despotic and brutal regime. I assume they are comfortable that such regimes exist and thrive. Not very liberal really is it.

What a silly post. Of course nobody is comfortable that those regimes exist. The questions are of course; should it have been our job to sort it out? And was that the reason we were there at all?

 

[Macca]

I can completely understand why some of them detest the hypocrisy of the west. If my family had been murdered by bombs dropped by countries from thousands of miles away, I imagine i'd be pretty pissed off and wouldn't be difficult to radicalise.

This sounds like an eye for an eye though?

 

[Grendel]

So what are you saying G? Our multiculturalism is to blame? We should be more like Russia? What?

We have no multiculturalism - we have a number of cultures housed together and living with their own beliefs and desires.

The west has been too liberal and accepting. Consider the recent case of a father who wanted his child to attend a Christian church group but was banned by his Muslim mother from doing so. Not only would you not see that in an Islam country in reverse but not in our country either would you see it in reverse. Islamaphobia would be the charge from the ludricous liberal elite.

The liberals are a curious bunch as then seem to accept brutal evil dictatorships as long as they are not here.

The terrorists are anarchists it's not religiously motivated. Tolerance is a tool of appeasement they will laugh at.

We know that from the "peace process"

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No Grendel has a point a valid point. I think it's that Russia don't care too much for Geneva conventions and rightly we condemn them!

I think I'm a liberal and I'm happy for Blair to do all he can to protect vulnerable people around the world

His mistake in my eyes was seemingly not giving a flying tuck about the consequences of the action

What's the point in doing anything if you aren't sure that you'll make things better?

 

[Macca]

Multiculturalism is a dream, a noble dream but a dream nonetheless. One culture will always crave power over the others. It is usually the most unyielding and agressive one. For years it has been "western" culture and now the tide is turning. No amount of pavement chalking and human chains will change that no matter how well intended.

 

[Grendel]

What a silly post. Of course nobody is comfortable that those regimes exist. The questions are of course; should it have been our job to sort it out? And was that the reason we were there at all?

A silly point? Why? Are you saying there is no society you'd intervene in at all? So brutality and mass murder is fine so long as it's not on your doorstep? So when Poland went in 1939 you'd have shrugged your shoulders? As long as death camps weren't on our doorstep no problem?

I'm disappointed.