The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (21 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

No he is the guy who though the Euro was a good thing, then didn't - reliable guy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...economist-who-once-backed-currency-union.html

You've quoted the Telegraph quoting the mail who were quoting his speech at the LSE and cherry picked. If you look at the whole speech you will find he was saying the Euro should be dismantled if the EU weren't prepared to undertake the reforms required to boost investor confidence in it as a currency.

He also later gave a caveat to that saying that for some European counties reverting to their own currency would be a disaster as it would be immediately worthless.

 

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[skybluetony176]

LOL - the gift truly keeps giving. Tony, if you had to find someone to support you in an argument on Child Welfare you'd bring up the McCanns - it's hilarious

You really are the biggest idiot I have ever had the misfortune to come across. What a ridiculous thing to say. The worrying thing is that you truly believe that was an intelligent reply.

I correct you on what someone has said and you come out with the ridiculous because you know that my correction of your post is correct so you attack me personally with ridiculous assumptions on what I might say about a completely different subject that's so far removed from what we're actually discussing it's laughable.

You're an idiot. You're obviously taking advice from the cast of TOWIE now.

 

[Grendel]

You really are the biggest idiot I have ever had the misfortune to come across. What a ridiculous thing to say. The worrying thing is that you truly believe that was an intelligent reply.

I correct you on what someone has said and you come out with the ridiculous because you know that my correction of your post is correct so you attack me personally with ridiculous assumptions on what I might say about a completely different subject that's so far removed from what we're actually discussing it's laughable.

You're an idiot. You're obviously taking advice from the cast of TOWIE now.

Tony - you put an economist forward to support your case who changed his mind totally on the Euro did you not? So no doubt he will change his stance on this subject in two years.

The funny thing is that you blather on about the stupid and the uneducated - you call me, Moff and Mr Trench retards and yet I suspect you haven't had a university education and are exactly the type that Schmee etc. would abuse if you voted the other way.

I have had a university education as have the 5 colleagues in my department. 4 of us voted leave Tony and not one of us cares less about the NHS or immigration. You once voted UKIP and claimed it was not a racist institution.

You are a fool Tony and do in fairness present an argument as to why referendums are dangerous as they give a clueless parasite like you an opportunity to have a say.

 

[Astute]

I can't believe some of the shite I have just read.

If you didn't vote for those that lied or twisted the truth you didn't vote. The remain side also did character assassination as the truth on staying wasn't good.

There was good about staying and good about getting out. There was bad about staying in and getting out. And those so called economists and experts were wrong about the Euro and the banking crisis.

I was one of the minority that didn't vote for those that lied to us. I went to the pub about 10am instead, and got home just after 3am as the results were coming in. I went to bed and saw the result a few hours later when I got up to get the kids ready for school.

It will be interesting to see who sorts it all out with Germany. Will it be those that fronted the leave lot or whoever is the new PM......or Boris for both?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Hilary Benn sacked as shadow foreign secretary. Got to admit, after the debacle with him over Syria, seemed to have such a different political view than his Dad.

 

[martcov]

UK population 65.1m
Registered voters 46.5m
Turnout 33.5m
Leave 17.4m

So that's 26.7% of the UK population voting leave

Bonus stat for you. Who our next Prime Minister is will be voted on by 0.2% of the population. The winner only needs to get votes from 0.12% of the population.

It's democracy, get over it...

 

[Grendel]

It's democracy, get over it...

Well it is - why isn't it? As it didn't go your way?

 

[martcov]

I can't believe some of the shite I have just read.

If you didn't vote for those that lied or twisted the truth you didn't vote. The remain side also did character assassination as the truth on staying wasn't good.

There was good about staying and good about getting out. There was bad about staying in and getting out. And those so called economists and experts were wrong about the Euro and the banking crisis.

I was one of the minority that didn't vote for those that lied to us. I went to the pub about 10am instead, and got home just after 3am as the results were coming in. I went to bed and saw the result a few hours later when I got up to get the kids ready for school.

It will be interesting to see who sorts it all out with Germany. Will it be those that fronted the leave lot or whoever is the new PM......or Boris for both?

I run the British Stand on a major event in Germany. My staff have been pestered all day and have overheard negative comments about Britain. People are saying we won't buy anything here, you are no longer in the EU. "Es ist zum Kotzen!" - "it makes me sick" - that was a comment. This started as a sop to Cameron's backbenchers so and ended up as a major change for Britain and Europe. Yes, the EU has many faults. There is a massive gravy train for eurocrats. 2000 earn more than Merkel and have extra privileges. Britain was a country that should be leading the fight for a better EU, not one running away. Cameron was the wrong person to tell the EU what to do. Germany is not the EU, but it will lead. The tenor is "you want to leave? Right let's do it. We want article 50 enacted on Tuesday and a quick negotiation to avoid uncertainty. I think we've made a big mistake. Some say it is a victory for democracy, but democracy only works when people are informed. If you vote to put 350m in the NHS and stop immigration, and then it turns out you actually voted to jettison the country into the unknown... Then that is not really democracy because your vote was based on bullshit from certain media groups and politicians and your vote was effectively manipulated for their purposes. People have been conned by unscrupulous politicians and a press Mogul. Have fun.

 

[martcov]

Well it is - why isn't it? As it didn't go your way?

It went my way in Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and with the youth of England. Pity the older generation mugged us. The newspapers and the lies from leave cost the UK a lot.

 

[Philosoraptor]

A little photo I took a while back...

This generation of Labour councillors would rather sell cluster munitions to fund pensions.

It's everything what's wrong with Labour at the moment.

 

[dutchman]

I run the British Stand on a major event in Germany. My staff have been pestered all day and have overheard negative comments about Britain. People are saying we won't buy anything here, you are no longer in the EU. "Es ist zum Kotzen!" - "it makes me sick" - that was a comment.

Britain buys twice as many goods from Germany as Germany buys from Britain so anytime they want to start a trade boycott...

 

[dutchman]

It went my way in Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and with the youth of England. Pity the older generation mugged us. The newspapers and the lies from leave cost the UK a lot.

Maybe the "older generation" weren't as easily brainwashed by the overwhelmingly pro-EU media?

Maybe they have memories of life before the EU when things in Britain were a lot better for a lot of people?

 

[CCFC Germany]

Britain buys twice as many goods from Germany as Germany buys from Britain so anytime they want to start a trade boycott...

None of both countries could afford a trade boycott.
I do think, that will never happen.
Britain will surely lose all its special deals, though...
Paying lesse and receving more than most countries in the EU...
Plus I do hope, you find some Britons soon, that really want to become plumbers, scafolders etc if some of you guys want to get rid of those Polish workers so badly.

 

[clint van damme]

None of both countries could afford a trade boycott.
I do think, that will never happen.
Britain will surely lose all its special deals, though...
Paying lesse and receving more than most countries in the EU...
Plus I do hope, you find some Britons soon, that really want to become plumbers, scafolders etc if some of you guys want to get rid of those Polish workers so badly.

it's OK mate, we're recalling 1.2 million satsuma skinned octogenarians from the Costa to replace them.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

it's OK mate, we're recalling 1.2 million satsuma skinned octogenarians from the Costa to replace them.

Once they stop getting all their free medical care in Spain they will head back to start using the nhs more.

 

[kdrinkell]

This is worth a watch

 

[Astute]

None of both countries could afford a trade boycott.
I do think, that will never happen.
Britain will surely lose all its special deals, though...
Paying lesse and receving more than most countries in the EU...
Plus I do hope, you find some Britons soon, that really want to become plumbers, scafolders etc if some of you guys want to get rid of those Polish workers so badly.

Didn't you mean paying in a lot more than we got back? And most countries get a lot more than they put in.

Who said that we wanted rid of anyone? You may have got that from the small amount of racists that we have. Just like all countries have. Just like Germany has. But we are a small island. Our roads are getting gridlocked. We don't have the infrastructure.

As I said earlier I didn't vote. You said about the bullshit from the leave side.The remain side were at least as bad. And each time they were caught out they reduced the debate to personal attacks.

It was your EU buddies in Germany that cost the remain side a lot of votes. Part of Cameron's lies were about him getting a better deal once we had voted to remain. But they said that we already had the best deal on the table.

And I am now supposed to believe that the younger voters were right and the older more experienced voters were wrong. The younger voters moan like fuck about housing being unaffordable. This is caused by a housing shortage. Now they moan like fuck that their elders wanted the borders closed to over 500m people unless they have the trades we need. Londoners wanted the same. But what about the thousands of families already there that live in sheds or worse?

The younger voters have listened to the economists. The same ones that were totally wrong about the Euro and the banking crisis.

The Euro still isn't going to work. You need to be able to set the value of your own currency to your own needs. And I can see the start of another banking crisis. We as a country are more in debt than the last time. This is why interest rates have been kept to near zero for so many years. But if you listen to the economists everything is OK. We have millions of people just one step away from disaster. But at least this time the economists can blame it on leaving the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

Maybe the "older generation" weren't as easily brainwashed by the overwhelmingly pro-EU media?

Maybe they have memories of life before the EU when things in Britain were a lot better for a lot of people?

No but they were easily brainwashed by xenophobes. Unless you're telling me that they voted understanding that the claims from the leave campaign regarding funding for the NHS and stopping EU migrants were bullshit when they and many many others cast there votes.

Nearly everybody I know who voted out voted on immigration first and NHS funding second. I tried explaining to them that it was BS but they dismissed it as scaremongering. Now the leave camp are confirming themselves that it was BS by backtracking left, right and centre.

 

[skybluetony176]

And here's the confirmation why numbers of EU migrants won't drop just because we're leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745

And I quote "The EEA comprises the 28 members of the EU, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. EEA rules allow those non-EU countries to be part of the EU's single market, as long as they allow full freedom of movement of people."

This is why Boris, Ferage, Gove and the rest of them didn't want to commit numbers as part of their referendum campaign. Because there will be no change. The EU aren't going to change the rules because they'll have to change it for Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. That's constitutional change within the EU which means the European Parliament will have to vote on it and anyone who thinks that they will vote for this change is deluded and the truth is that we need to stay in the common market to protect 1000's of jobs in the UK's financial market as well as protecting trade with the EU to protect thousands of other jobs.

People really should understand what they've voted for.

 

[martcov]

Maybe the "older generation" weren't as easily brainwashed by the overwhelmingly pro-EU media?

Maybe they have memories of life before the EU when things in Britain were a lot better for a lot of people?

Were things a lot better? I remember run down factories, more discrimination, pound being devalued, pollution, less foreign travel, lower life expectancy, less higher education less employment Protection and so on. Some things are better because of the EU, others not, but to claim life was better then and that it is worse now because of the EU is not true in many respects. There are more migrants, partly ( large part ) due to the EU, but wealthy non EU countries also attract migrants and we had Commonwealth migrants before the EU. Older people may have selective memories. My father was in bomber command and he maybe sees things more nationalistic than I do - e.g. he said he would accept the Euro if it was called a pound when that was being discussed.

 

[skybluetony176]

Were things a lot better? I remember run down factories, more discrimination, pound being devalued, pollution, less foreign travel, lower life expectancy, less higher education less employment Protection and so on. Some things are better because of the EU, others not, but to claim life was better then and that it is worse now because of the EU is not true in many respects. There are more migrants, partly ( large part ) due to the EU, but wealthy non EU countries also attract migrants and we had Commonwealth migrants before the EU. Older people may have selective memories. My father was in bomber command and he maybe sees things more nationalistic than I do - e.g. he said he would accept the Euro if it was called a pound when that was being discussed.

I remember the three day working week, the power cuts, the bins not being empty. When I was six years of age I can remember telling my teacher that my dad was unemployed. Turned out that the reason he was always at home was a combination of the three day working week and regular strike action.

I also remember watching the nine o'clock news in the 80's and there being a section every night where they compared the strength of the pound to the dollar and the one thing that I remember from it was that the pound was always down. Funnily enough the news has had that for decades because of our economic outlook has improved so much. They also used to do a running total of job's created against jobs lost (every Friday night IIRC) this has also disappeared from the news. Wouldn't be surprised if they make a comeback.

 

[Grendel]

I remember the three day working week, the power cuts, the bins not being empty. When I was six years of age I can remember telling my teacher that my dad was unemployed. Turned out that the reason he was always at home was a combination of the three day working week and regular strike action.

We were in the EU then Tony

 

[skybluetony176]

We were in the EU then Tony

Well done. We were also in the EU during the longest period of growth this country has ever experienced. What's your point again?

 

[Grendel]

Well done. We were also in the EU during the longest period of growth this country has ever experienced. What's your point again?

Clearly that our economy is dependant on the EU but by other market forces.

 

[Astute]

No but they were easily brainwashed by xenophobes. Unless you're telling me that they voted understanding that the claims from the leave campaign regarding funding for the NHS and stopping EU migrants were bullshit when they and many many others cast there votes.

Nearly everybody I know who voted out voted on immigration first and NHS funding second. I tried explaining to them that it was BS but they dismissed it as scaremongering. Now the leave camp are confirming themselves that it was BS by backtracking left, right and centre.

So you constantly go on about the lies from the leave side but refuse to acknowledge anything about remain. You constantly go on about what could be bad about leaving but nothing bad about staying. You call people uneducated because they have different views to you.

You should have campaigned for the remain side. You would have blended in very well with them. They also had no chance of brainwashing those of us that are educated and have a mind of our own.

If you want to point out someone who you say knows what is best for in or out try and find one that was right about the Euro and banking crisis.

 

[lewys33]

I know it can be easy to get drawn in by grendel's fishing rod but it is also quite easy to take a step back, have a little giggle to yourself, even shake your head and carry on with your day.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know it can be easy to get drawn in by grendel's fishing rod but it is also quite easy to take a step back, have a little giggle to yourself, even shake your head and carry on with your day.

It's not a rod, it's a bloody great whaling harpoon!

 

[skybluetony176]

Clearly that our economy is dependant on the EU but by other market forces.

Sorry. I thought that you were pointing out that since we joined the EU our economics, living standards and lifestyles have improved. Slowly to begin with but snowballed to give our country the longest periods of sustainable growth in it's history. That is what's happened since joining the EU isn't it?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I run the British Stand on a major event in Germany. My staff have been pestered all day and have overheard negative comments about Britain. People are saying we won't buy anything here, you are no longer in the EU. "Es ist zum Kotzen!" - "it makes me sick" - that was a comment. This started as a sop to Cameron's backbenchers so and ended up as a major change for Britain and Europe. Yes, the EU has many faults. There is a massive gravy train for eurocrats. 2000 earn more than Merkel and have extra privileges. Britain was a country that should be leading the fight for a better EU, not one running away. Cameron was the wrong person to tell the EU what to do. Germany is not the EU, but it will lead. The tenor is "you want to leave? Right let's do it. We want article 50 enacted on Tuesday and a quick negotiation to avoid uncertainty. I think we've made a big mistake. Some say it is a victory for democracy, but democracy only works when people are informed. If you vote to put 350m in the NHS and stop immigration, and then it turns out you actually voted to jettison the country into the unknown... Then that is not really democracy because your vote was based on bullshit from certain media groups and politicians and your vote was effectively manipulated for their purposes. People have been conned by unscrupulous politicians and a press Mogul. Have fun.

<<My staff have been pestered all day and have overheard negative comments about Britain. People are saying we won't buy anything here, you are no longer in the EU. "Es ist zum Kotzen!" - "it makes me sick" - that was a comment.>>

Oh please, grow up. You expect anyone to believe that invented nonsense? It's all in your imagination. Dream up another one.

Let me tell you, I live part of the year in Portugal. Despite being nett beneficiaries, the Portuguese people despise the EU. They long to be able to leave and regain control of their country.

I export my products all across Europe including France, Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden. I spend time in all those countries and hear first hand the resentment of the EU.

The economies of Greece, Italy and Spain have been wrecked as a consequence of EU membership. There is mass unemployment, mass immigration and deep resentment.

If you believe different, I suggest you stop listening to politicians and the EU elite and try to understand how the people feel

That's why I posted on here early last week that I was sure the UK would vote Leave. It shouldn't have been a shock.


<<We want article 50 enacted on Tuesday and a quick negotiation to avoid uncertainty.>>

Wrong again. They want article 50 invoked to bully and scare other countries from following the UK's lead.

No chance.

History will show that the brave people of the UK stood up against the arrogant unelected elite and once again demonstrated to the world that freedom is in the hands of the people.

Be in no doubt, the nations of Europe will follow.

The EU is finished.

It's called democracy.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You expect anyone to believe that invented nonsense?

Well there's recent form for people believing invented nonsense...

 

[skybluetony176]

So you constantly go on about the lies from the leave side but refuse to acknowledge anything about remain. You constantly go on about what could be bad about leaving but nothing bad about staying. You call people uneducated because they have different views to you.

You should have campaigned for the remain side. You would have blended in very well with them. They also had no chance of brainwashing those of us that are educated and have a mind of our own.

If you want to point out someone who you say knows what is best for in or out try and find one that was right about the Euro and banking crisis.

So what lies that the remain camp gave have been exposed since the vote? How many of these lies were the back bone of there campaign that convinced many thousands to vote remain? How many people from the remain camp are now publicly exposing these lies now that the votes are in the bag?

 

[Astute]

Well done. We were also in the EU during the longest period of growth this country has ever experienced. What's your point again?

You don't have a clue what you are going on about do you.

Would you like to explain why the lowest growth has been in the EU?

I will give you a clue. The more people you have the more growth you need just to stand still. Then you need growth just to keep up with inflation. That is why we have been in decline for years now if you compare living standards. But the uneducated just look at the headlines and think we are doing very well just because turnover is up. And I don't mean uneducated in a bad way like you do. I am an investor. So I have a clue on how things work. I am now all in on commodities that pay a decent dividend. Personally safer than gold.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

It went my way in Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and with the youth of England. Pity the older generation mugged us. The newspapers and the lies from leave cost the UK a lot.

Older generation looked at ity objectively and voted for what the thought best for the country. The youth generally voted for visa free travel and lower roaming charges on their phones.

 

[Astute]

So what lies that the remain camp gave have been exposed since the vote? How many of these lies were the back bone of there campaign that convinced many thousands to vote remain? How many people from the remain camp are now publicly exposing these lies now that the votes are in the bag?

Nearly every time they opened their mouths. And like I said each time they were caught out they went onto personal attacks.

And like I said earlier Cameron tried to make out that he had agreements to change things in our favour. But what he really had was an agreement to have talks about changing things. Then those running the EU stated we already had the best deal that they were going to offer.

We have the 5th biggest economy in the world. What makes you think that we need to be in the EU to survive? They need us much more than we need them.

Germany has the run of the EU. Others will make out that things will be bad if we do leave as we are not gone yet and they will try to scare us to stay. Just like the remain lot tried to scare us into a remain vote. But Germany will want a good trade deal with us as they would benefit more than we would from one.

 

[Otis]

Oh dear. A number of people now regretting how they voted.

Just been listening to 5 Live.

Nicky Campbell also asking people to phone in and describe in one word how they feel about the outcome. 'Gutted' 'Worried' 'Dejected' 'Disappointed' etc.

One woman said 'shattered' by the decision. Which way did you vote asks Nicky?

'I voted leave' says the woman. Lots of scoffs in the background. 'It was a protest vote, but I never thought they would win, so I am shattered and it has backfired on me. '

Apparently a lot of people have protest voted.