The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (191 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Well I would say that I am not gloating about the UK being in danger of splitting up. I am, however, gloating at the leavers waking up with a hangover and realising they have been conned. Farage is 70's National Front style and has achieved more than either the NF of Nick Griffin could ever have dreamed of. He won't have much say in the negotiations though. Who is in charge of that and what is the plan?
The EU won't crumble, but it will reform. Refugees, Migrants and benefit tourism are likely to be high on the adgenda. Actually, GB has done the EU a favour in that sense, things may now improve.
I am not whinging or knocking Britain, but I think the Referendum was not necessary and the end result was a stupid decision which the UK will regret.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Interesting piece on the BBC's website regarding article 50
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36634702/article-50-the-simplest-explanation-youll-find
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36634702/article-50-the-simplest-explanation-youll-find
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
This is clearer... Newsbeat FFS!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-leave-article-50-lisbon-treaty-a7100436.html
Your middle paragraph there ???? Why wasn't all those discussions offered to the UK before the vote !? Pathetic just like that pile of crap you just wrote ! We were persecuted from within the EU and we will be persecuted from outside now ! The difference is before it cost us £8 billion a year for the privilege !
The worst thing possibly to come out of this whole shebang from last nights commons discussions were comments by Ken Clarke who suggested Parliament does not follow the mandate from the 'plebiscites'..................now surely that sounds danger warnings to anyone who believes in democracy, on both sides of the EU argument ??
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Net 10 billion actually.
The eu is done for. it was done for before but now the UK have got out just in time. Already it's more intergration and more of the same. They will never learn.
It's a sinking ship and sadly there are not enough lifeboats.
A plebiscite is the mandate and not a slight at those voting.
However, Cameron dismissed the suggestion it shouldn't be implemented......however, he's not the one who will actually be responsible for doing so.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I did read the independent article too but I thought I best dumb it down for here
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The Germans have a white paper about benefits tourism - in Germany. Frau Nahles said Cameron was only interested in "sweeping his own front door" and not the rest of the EU. The Germans want to share the burden of the refugee crisis and want a unified stance. They are already making it harder to claim refugee status. Britain should be working with Germany, not legging it. Britain is not the only country wanting to sort this out and should be EU president in the second half of 2017. A real chance to do something, but by then we will have no say and probably won't get the presidency now anyway. We will still be paying in though.
Which month will we start paying the legendary 350 m into the NHS? When will our migrant NHS workers be getting their well deserved payrises from this money?
I have never been persecuted by the EU ( cannot same the same about the German taxman - but that is not just me ). What form does the persecution take? Racist insults or attacks? Oops, silly me, that is more like the actions of some extreme "leavers".
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Watching the footage of Cameron and Farage today I think we can be certain the notion of an easy ride or the rest of the EU not wanting to make an example of us is out the window.
Most interesting was the response to the SNP MEP who spoke. He got a rapturous reception when he asked the EU to stand by a Scotland that had not voted to leave. I'm certain if they have another independence referendum, which seems inevitable, they will be having it on the basis of being able to remain in Europe.
Most interesting was the response to the SNP MEP who spoke. He got a rapturous reception when he asked the EU to stand by a Scotland that had not voted to leave. I'm certain if they have another independence referendum, which seems inevitable, they will be having it on the basis of being able to remain in Europe.
As Sturgeon said, pre Brexit UK ( which they voted for in their referendum ) does not exist any more. Scotland have every right to ask for a referendum.
Juncker and Merkel have said they are not messing around. If you want to leave the family, don't expect any favours.
The letter ( recently publicised ) in respect of Farage's appointment as a prefect at Dulwich school predicted his behaviour spot on. Pity the warnings were not heeded then.
We could have and should have done a lot in the EU to get reforms through, but we didn't because we always had these Tory backbenchers in the background and the gutter press. Who will the crap press bash instead of Brussels? Corbyn? But he won't be around much longer. No problem - anyone that is not right wing will do.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Scotland won't leave the UK in my opinion. EU clearly isn't interested not to mention the euro will destroy Scotland. Sorry the case isn't there.dont get me wrong I'm all up for a Scottish referendum. I'm a bit cheesed off they had one 2 years ago I may add though.
I saw the speech. The applause was fine but only the same as farage got from the EFDD. It's both sides of the argument passionately believing in their case.
As for a good deal. We will get a great deal. They can't not. We are their biggest exporter in the world and need any more explaining? dont see why they wouldn't give us a great deal. They could not yes and put 10% on everything but why?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Agree with the referendum bit. If they want to leave then fine. Their choice.
Secondly Well of course juncker and Merkel said that. What they going to do come out and roll over. No chance. The sounds actually sound better to me. "Why be nasty" from Merkel. I repeat we are their biggest exporter in the world and that's that. Stick 20% tariffs on their own goods and then we buy other countries cars let's say and many many jobs will be lost. Don't think so
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Let me just add my opinion in general. This is it now. The EU is gone. It's finished. Brexit is the beginning of the end. The game is over. One size doesn't fit all and it will now unravel. It simply doesn't work.
Many countries now want their refendum and it's only going to get worse and not better. Britain has just been the first to leave but I'm certain it won't be the last. It's over.
I just hope we can start again and all be friends and create a "block" keep it smaller and keep democracy and national Sovereignty. I want Europe just not an unelected Europe politicians and a massive Gravy train.
Many countries now want their refendum and it's only going to get worse and not better. Britain has just been the first to leave but I'm certain it won't be the last. It's over.
I just hope we can start again and all be friends and create a "block" keep it smaller and keep democracy and national Sovereignty. I want Europe just not an unelected Europe politicians and a massive Gravy train.
It would only be finished if Germany said so. Maybe difficult if France went on wobble - but Germany would pull them in somehow. Which countries want a referendum? Which ones have announced it? All will be watching what we do.. The negotiating, the plan, the historic chance... In reality though, we have no Plan, no one political party with a programme, no leader ( at least the Scots have one ) and our Union will probably break up. Cannot see anyone copying that.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Putin must be enjoying what is going on and he has the power to speed up any potential break up.
I think that as well. He hates the EU sanctions. Maybe he will do a deal with us? Great... Not
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Isn't there calls (not as strong as there was here but they're growing) for exit referendums in Denmark, Holland, Italy and indeed France? The Danes especially I believe.
How many have announced a referendum? None. It is wait and see. If we are the example there won't be many more.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
He is the kind of chap who could help fund other referendums and it could be a cold winter in Europe if he decides to stop sending the gas etc.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fair enough but I don't agree. I don't see how or why the union would break up? They had a refendum and sure give them another one but what if the EU doesn't want them? What if Scotland didn't want to break up from the UK in a refendum like last time? Sorry I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying I don't see it. The eu and uk are different referendums. Different questions.
Well you say until Germany says so well there is a lot of support already in Germany of the break up. Remember they foot the biggest bill and how long does that become tolerable? Even more so now uk has left who massively helped them out. As Putin said about brexit no one wants to keep funding poorer countries. It becomes in the end intolerable.
I'm also thinking more about the euro and shengen the two hallmarks of the EU whilst both very good and noble ideas they don't work. The euro has been a disaster throughout as one currency just doesn't fit all. It can't do.
As for calls in other countries, Denmark want out by a majority. Greece unsurprisingly want gone by 71% in the latest polls. Biggest in the eu.
Sorry to say it but the eu is done for. Even if we remained another country would of gone. It doesn't work. It's gotten too big and too powerful via unelected politicians. It become unsustainable.
I sincerely hope we can one day all come back together perhaps smaller and more specific and we are all in or all out. Let's trade, free travel and be good neighbors but no shared currencies or borders.
One final point that really bugs me. If the eu was so great and we are so fucked then why did we vote leave? Why do other some other countries want a refendum? A client of mine told me we voted leave because the electorate up north especially are stupid. I said to him that's not fair and actually look at why people voted leave instead of saying they are stupid and this might fair you better.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Putin was more of a statesman than barrack Obama tbf. Not once did Putin tell us what to do. Obama just threatened us from Downing Street. That's a sad but true story
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes tony because it doesn't work. Denmark as you say in particular because they don't have the euro and aren't in shengen just like Britain. They will be next IMO.
I know you supported remain and i know leave have faults but this isn't just a Britain thing. It's been coming for years now all over the continent. I like the eu idea it's just gotten too big and too powerful and in the end something gives. If not Britain it would of been someone else.
It's dead now.
Social media... If anyone critises Russia here on German social media, you will get instant pro Russian replies. He is pissed off with the EU. Turkey has now apologised to Putin and wants to be friends - the EU as 28 countries is stronger and has extended the sanctions. He must be loving this.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Are you seriously saying Farage and Smith got the same response? Think you need to watch it again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36648664
Sorry. Won't happen, they are too linked to Germany economically. I live 50 miles from the border - we need each other.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
We haven't left yet! We haven't even invoked article 50. Our current Prime Minister has no intention of doing so and even Johnson seems to be cooling on the idea saying the referendum result was far from decisive.
I wouldn't bet against article 50 never being invoked by this government.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
well kind of. tbf the eurosceptics are heavily outnumbered in that parliament if that's what you can call it. Be a bit like saying the away side in a football match didn't cheer as loud because they only had 2k fans there compared to 30k home fans.
Look I get the remain side I see it also. They don't want Britain to leave the EU. Why would they? We are their biggest contributor and their biggest export zone in the world. I get it.
Obama has threatend us...? Please explain ( genuine question ).
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fine but why the massive calls for a refendum then in Denmark?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Back of the queue or was it line? When it comes to a trade deal with America. He has already back tracked on that now.
Did you not see that? (Genuine question also)
Won't happen. Full stop.
No, but it doesn't surprise me.