The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (238 Viewers)

[Macca]

I tell you one thing, for all the hype about the rise of the right, its the rhetoric coming from middle class lefties that has been most suprising and worrying. Some of my acquaintances have really shown their true colours in defeat with some incredible comments

 

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[Astute]

No it doesn't make any difference in voting/ veto rights.

I said that you said you would now vote leave if there was a rerun. I only quote what you said. Read your own comments before you insult me.

I have never insulted you - your comments are ill informed and race based. I am saying nothing more. Read what you said.

What has race to do with a president or - in the case of the U.K. - a prime minister? Would you accept being ruled - in the country you are so proud of - by an Afro Caribean? You mentioned race in EU terms - not me.

That is the problem with this vote - emotion, race, ill informed...

And more comple bollocks. Most people on here know that my eldest daughter is half Asian. Now you accuse me of being a racist just because I want us ruled by ourselves and not as it would most probably be by someone from Germany if everyone got a single vote.

And yes I have said I would most probably make sure I vote leave if there was another referendum. It is people like yourself and others that have made me feel like this. The people of the UK voted. They voted out. I am all for democracy.

 

[Grendel]

I want us to be part of an European Union. If the figurehead is British, Greek or Estonian - it doesn't matter. It is not a question of race, but ability.

The only British figurehead Europe would consider is the ghastly Blair and that really says it all

 

[martcov]

The only British figurehead Europe would consider is the ghastly Blair and that really says it all

I don't think they would and I agree that Blair is ghastly.

 

[Astute]

I want us to be part of an European Union. If the figurehead is British, Greek or Estonian - it doesn't matter. It is not a question of race, but ability.

Bollocks. You have called me ill informed and my thoughts are race based. And if it is based on ability then we have the ability to do well out of the EU.

I am British. I don't want to be ruled by someone in Europe that we don't want to be ruled by. End of.

 

[martcov]

And more comple bollocks. Most people on here know that my eldest daughter is half Asian. Now you accuse me of being a racist just because I want us ruled by ourselves and not as it would most probably be by someone from Germany if everyone got a single vote.

And yes I have said I would most probably make sure I vote leave if there was another referendum. It is people like yourself and others that have made me feel like this. The people of the UK voted. They voted out. I am all for democracy.

Read your posts. You are frightened of Germans running the EU and ruling you. They are not running the EU and are not - as fa as I know - interested in ruling you. If you are not racist, why are you against a person of another race being a figurehead for Europe? If Europe ( 500m people from 28 countries ) have elected him, why won't you accept him if he ( or she ) turns out to be German?

You contradict yourself.

 

[martcov]

Bollocks. You have called me ill informed and my thoughts are race based. And if it is based on ability then we have the ability to do well out of the EU.

I am British. I don't want to be ruled by someone in Europe that we don't want to be ruled by. End of.

That you don't want to be ruled by. Being "British" is not a logical reason for not being in the EU. That is race based.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

And more comple bollocks. Most people on here know that my eldest daughter is half Asian. Now you accuse me of being a racist just because I want us ruled by ourselves and not as it would most probably be by someone from Germany if everyone got a single vote.

And yes I have said I would most probably make sure I vote leave if there was another referendum. It is people like yourself and others that have made me feel like this. The people of the UK voted. They voted out. I am all for democracy.

martcov's arguments are largely incoherent and read as though they've been constructed by a 12 year old.

I have previously observed that he will often resort to a default position of labelling people as racists.

 

[Astute]

Read your posts. You are frightened of Germans running the EU and ruling you. They are not running the EU and are not - as fa as I know - interested in ruling you. If you are not racist, why are you against a person of another race being a figurehead for Europe? If Europe ( 500m people from 28 countries ) have elected him, why won't you accept him if he ( or she ) turns out to be German?

You contradict yourself.

I am not frightened. We are British. We should run our own countries. We shouldn't be run by people that don't have our best interests at heart.

 

[martcov]

martcov's arguments are largely incoherent and read as though they've been constructed by a 12 year old.

I have previously observed that he will often resort to a default position of labelling people as racists.

Really, when have I ever called you a racist?

 

[Astute]

That you don't want to be ruled by. Being "British" is not a logical reason for not being in the EU. That is race based.

You are the one who is ill informed. Being British and wanting to be run by other British people and not by someone from the EU is what the vast majority would want.

 

[Astute]

Really, when have I ever called you a racist?

I suppose you have never insinuated that I am racist now

 

[martcov]

I am not frightened. We are British. We should run our own countries. We shouldn't be run by people that don't have our best interests at heart.

By that you mean the countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland I assume? Fair enough, but Scotland and Northern Ireland want to remain in the EU. Are you for allowing them a referendum? What makes you think that a coherent Europe doesn't have our interests at heart? Together we are stronger and there is less chance of European wars. That is in our interests.

 

[martcov]

I suppose you have never insinuated that I am racist now

Actually that is the first time I have ever mentioned that. Until your recent comments I thought you were on the same wavelength as me on other subjects. I am surprised and disappointed.

 

[armybike]

If you are not racist, why are you against a person of another race being a figurehead for Europe?

From what race do you think a potential figurehead of Europe could be?

 

[martcov]

I tell you one thing, for all the hype about the rise of the right, its the rhetoric coming from middle class lefties that has been most suprising and worrying. Some of my acquaintances have really shown their true colours in defeat with some incredible comments

Defeat? The game is not over. A 52% vote is hardly a conclusive majority. Farage said beforehand, that if it were so close, he would campaign for a rerun.

 

[Astute]

By that you mean the countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland I assume? Fair enough, but Scotland and Northern Ireland want to remain in the EU. Are you for allowing them a referendum? What makes you think that a coherent Europe doesn't have our interests at heart? Together we are stronger and there is less chance of European wars. That is in our interests.

I wasn't against the Scottish referendum. They voted stay.

So will Europe go to war if we leave? Sounds like you was listening to the remain lot from where you live in Germany.

 

[Astute]

From what race do you think a potential figurehead of Europe could be?

Does it matter? I wouldn't want it whatever colour or nationality.

 

[martcov]

From what race do you think a potential figurehead of Europe could be?

No idea.

 

[Grendel]

Read your posts. You are frightened of Germans running the EU and ruling you. They are not running the EU and are not - as fa as I know - interested in ruling you. If you are not racist, why are you against a person of another race being a figurehead for Europe? If Europe ( 500m people from 28 countries ) have elected him, why won't you accept him if he ( or she ) turns out to be German?

You contradict yourself.

The uk are hugely disengaged with this process. Turn out at the euro elections are incredibly low.

Be honest, there is no way the uk would ever agree political union at all. It's a grotesque system and you know as well as I do a leader will not be from a minor country.

UK has always been outside the process. Outside the eurozone and never would embrace federal rule.

If i am honest the only thing that would concern me is any suggestion eu migrants currently living here should have any change to their status. I think the migration into uk has been mainly positive and many fulfil roles in the public and service sectors that the indigenous population will not. I do not see their position threatened and not should they.

My perspective is ideological - astutes comment regarding being ruled by Britain is not racist it is a belief that citizens in a country should make it's own laws and elect it's own government. This is a rejection of federal rule and is precisely why I want out

 

[armybike]

No idea.

My question is based on you raising it as a racist point.

What race are those in power in Europe, who could potentially fulfil this role if it were to be implemented?

 

[martcov]

I wasn't against the Scottish referendum. They voted stay.

So will Europe go to war if we leave? Sounds like you was listening to the remain lot from where you live in Germany.

The Scots voted remain at the latest referendum - stay in Europe - by a higher majority than in the UK referendum. So you are presumably in favour of a Scots remain in Europe ( as a democrat )?

The idea of of "Europe" was born in the ruins of WWII. Who knows what the future will bring, but the past wasn't exactly good for Europe.

 

[martcov]

The uk are hugely disengaged with this process. Turn out at the euro elections are incredibly low.

Be honest, there is no way the uk would ever agree political union at all. It's a grotesque system and you know as well as I do a leader will not be from a minor country.

UK has always been outside the process. Outside the eurozone and never would embrace federal rule.

If i am honest the only thing that would concern me is any suggestion eu migrants currently living here should have any change to their status. I think the migration into uk has been mainly positive and many fulfil roles in the public and service sectors that the indigenous population will not. I do not see their position threatened and not should they.

My perspective is ideological - astutes comment regarding being ruled by Britain is not racist it is a belief that citizens in a country should make it's own laws and elect it's own government. This is a rejection of federal rule and is precisely why I want out

I understand your point of view, but Astute has problems with Germany and Germans being involved. He has never mentioned Estonians or Spanish.

 

[martcov]

My question is based on you raising it as a racist point.

What race are those in power in Europe, who could potentially fulfil this role if it were to be implemented?

It is a future concept, so I have no idea. Astute assumes that it will be a German if there is an election. Juncker is the most powerful man at the moment and he is from Luxembourg. The population of Luxembourg is comparable to Coventry.

 

[martcov]

You are the one who is ill informed. Being British and wanting to be run by other British people and not by someone from the EU is what the vast majority would want.

The vast majority either didn't vote or voted for Europe.

 

[armybike]

It is a future concept, so I have no idea. Astute assumes that it will be a German if there is an election. Juncker is the most powerful man at the moment and he is from Luxembourg. The population of Luxembourg is comparable to Coventry.

So what race are the leaders/representatives of Germany/Luxembourg?

 

[Astute]

The Scots voted remain at the latest referendum - stay in Europe - by a higher majority than in the UK referendum. So you are presumably in favour of a Scots remain in Europe ( as a democrat )?

The idea of of "Europe" was born in the ruins of WWII. Who knows what the future will bring, but the past wasn't exactly good for Europe.

So you say that the vote was very close for the UK to leave then say that the Scottish vote was much bigger to leave. That means that the English vote to leave was bigger than the UK total, yet you think we should stay in the EU.

I believe in people having a say. If the Scottish vote to stay in the EU I would like them to see if it is possible.

 

[Astute]

The vast majority either didn't vote or voted for Europe.

And even more either didn't vote or voted to leave the EU. Well over a million more.

 

[Astute]

I understand your point of view, but Astute has problems with Germany and Germans being involved. He has never mentioned Estonians or Spanish.

Your points are getting stupid.

I am British. I don't want to be ruled by any country but our own. Why shouldn't I want someone who wants what is best for us?

 

[martcov]

So what race are the leaders/representatives of Germany/Luxembourg?[/QUO

As to the race thing, slagging Poles or Germans is racism. Yes they are the same colour as us ( in general ), but that does not stop slagging Germans being racist. Are you trying to go down the ethnic road? There are Turks in the German parliament who could theoretically rule Germany. The ex-leader of the FDP was Vietnamese. The joint head of the Greens is Turkish and could get an important position in the next government. I have no idea about Luxembourg.

 

[martcov]

And even more either didn't vote or voted to leave the EU. Well over a million more.

Your points are getting stupid.

I am British. I don't want to be ruled by any country but our own. Why shouldn't I want someone who wants what is best for us?

No country is interested in ruling Britain. You don't get it.

 

[martcov]

And even more either didn't vote or voted to leave the EU. Well over a million more.

A million is not a vast majority.

 

[armybike]

As to the race thing, slagging Poles or Germans is racism. Yes they are the same colour as us ( in general ), but that does not stop slagging Germans being racist.

It's not racism, xenophobic maybe, but definitely not racist.

 

[Grendel]

A million is not a vast majority.

If it was in favour of Remain I am not sure you would say that

 

[martcov]

So you say that the vote was very close for the UK to leave then say that the Scottish vote was much bigger to leave. That means that the English vote to leave was bigger than the UK total, yet you think we should stay in the EU.

I believe in people having a say. If the Scottish vote to stay in the EU I would like them to see if it is possible.

Basically it is England, not Britain and only a section of England that wants to leave. Fine - but London is the bread winner and they want to stay. The game is by no means over.