The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (128 Viewers)

[Astute]

Yes, but did it change the power/ control? No. Either way would stay approximately the same. So, I don't agree that 'we' have our country back. One part of the elite has triumphed over the other. Just look at the characters involved. I was never really into national referenda and am now convinced that referenda, in questions such as this, a simple yes no resulting in a 17 to 16 majority and not all 4 UK countries voting the same way, are not the way to go. 52% have ignored the rights of 48% - and it would have been the same the other way round. In a parliament you can make compromises or you could maybe go back to negotiations again and again... Now we have gone a 100% in one direction - if anyone dares to pull the trigger ( the biggest mouths have legged it ).

You want our countries to become part of a federal EU. That is the way that the EU is going. Voting leave was the start of getting control back.

You say one side of the elite won over the other. Would you like to explain? The vast majority of them wanted to remain.

 

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[Ashdown]

You want our countries to become part of a federal EU. That is the way that the EU is going. Voting leave was the start of getting control back.

You say one side of the elite won over the other. Would you like to explain? The vast majority of them wanted to remain.

If Remain had have won he would have been saying 'All is fair in love and war ' ! I'm not bothered who leads us out as long as someone does !

 

[Kingokings204]

If Remain had have won he would have been saying 'All is fair in love and war ' ! I'm not bothered who leads us out as long as someone does !

Whilst being in Germany and obviously people have been fooled and leave voters are voting for the wrong people. And the break up of the U.K. With no evidence what so ever.

Scotland want a second refendum for Independence but they want to stay part of a European Union. It's beggars belief

 

[Astute]

Scotland want a second refendum for Independence but they want to stay part of a European Union. It's beggars belief

Scotland is run by someone who wants independence from England. But the people of Scotland know that they can't afford to go it alone. That was the main reason most voted to remain. So if she managed to get another referendum on leaving the UK and then got the leave vote it would be down to the EU to pay the difference. Otherwise the Scottish would be voting for big cuts.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Scotland won't leave the UK. they can't afford to. It won't belong before the SNP is on the wain there when people realise that they can never really be independent from us and the SNP can't deliver.

 

[Kingokings204]

Scotland is run by someone who wants independence from England. But the people of Scotland know that they can't afford to go it alone. That was the main reason most voted to remain. So if she managed to get another referendum on leaving the UK and then got the leave vote it would be down to the EU to pay the difference. Otherwise the Scottish would be voting for big cuts.

I know if they did have a referendum remain would win bigger than 2 years ago.

It just makes me laugh and as someone said people are starting to see through it now. That vile woman keeps spouting her mouth but that's all it is. She knows full well Scotland can't go it alone so she declares a second refendum for Independce and then wants to join another Union. I find it bizarre but some posters on here tell us Scotland voting to leave the U.K. Will happen now as we left the eu it's nonsense they are just tying to fit their argument and badly.

It would hold more water if they wanted genueine Independce but as it is it's just saying a load of nonsense from sturgeon with no evidence at all.

If they did vote btw 2 years ago for Independce then they would be in trouble by now. People knew this and voted to stay. I await the "they didn't know what they voted for" and the "well the no side told massive lies" sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

 

[dutchman]

It won't belong before the SNP is on the wain there when people realise that they can never really be independent from us and the SNP can't deliver.

It's on the wain already. The SNP has already lost it's overall majority while the Tories are enjoying a resurgence under a new leader north of the border.

 

[Astute]

Scotland won't leave the UK. they can't afford to. It won't belong before the SNP is on the wain there when people realise that they can never really be independent from us and the SNP can't deliver.

There are no guarantees which way any vote would go. The younger voters only look at the short term and what affects they have on themselves. They won't be looking 10 years or more into the future. They won't be thinking about the children they haven't yet had. They most probably don't know where the money comes from that finances their country. And will all those that voted to stay last time be bothered to vote again?

 

[Astute]

It just makes me laugh and as someone said people are starting to see through it now. That vile woman keeps spouting her mouth but that's all it is. She knows full well Scotland can't go it alone so she declares a second refendum for Independce and then wants to join another Union. I find it bizarre but some posters on here tell us Scotland voting to leave the U.K. Will happen now as we left the eu it's nonsense they are just tying to fit their argument and badly.

It would hold more water if they wanted genueine Independce but as it is it's just saying a load of nonsense from sturgeon with no evidence at all.

This is the part that makes me laugh. Being in the UK they have a big say on what goes on. They have a voice. If they leave the UK and stay in the EU they will become a small fish in a federal state without a voice. The odds are they would then become dependent on bailouts and then tied to the Euro.

 

[RegTheDonk]

I vote for Andrea leadsom. Fresh face. Brexit supporter.

Speaks very well. She has a real chance.

Don't know much about her, but I saw her being quizzed on her stance about gay marriage. Though I don't argee with what she said, its refreshing to hear a politico speaking her mind and standing by her beliefs, in not only this but the brexit stance, rather than sucking up to everyone just to swing a vote.

I know if they did have a referendum remain would win bigger than 2 years ago.

Don't we get a say in this? Can't we vote to kick them out of the Union? If this stopped the British love in over Andy F*kin Murray, I'd vote for their independence

 

[clint van damme]

who says Scotland can't afford to go it alone?

 

[Astute]

who says Scotland can't afford to go it alone?

They could in the good days of North Sea oil. Them days are gone. So tell us where their income will come from.

 

[clint van damme]

business for Scotland make a pretty good case for Scotland been able to be financially Independent. There are other economists who make the case that they can't.
I just wonder what makes the expert economists of this board so certain they can't.
As for oil, again, there are experts who say it's not going to run out any time soon and those who say it is.
One thing they do agree on is it is getting more expensive to extract.

 

[Astute]

business for Scotland make a pretty good case for Scotland been able to be financially Independent. There are other economists who make the case that they can't.
I just wonder what makes the expert economists of this board so certain they can't.
As for oil, again, there are experts who say it's not going to run out any time soon and those who say it is.
One thing they do agree on is it is getting more expensive to extract.

The higher cost of extraction and cheaper oil prices makes a massive difference. Those wanting independence from the UK have numbers to play with. But their outgoings would be massive.

The unemployment rate has gone up a lot in Scotland this year. And it is mainly to do with the north sea oil slump. As part of the UK they are safe. Leaving the UK would be very dangerous.

 

[martcov]

You want our countries to become part of a federal EU. That is the way that the EU is going. Voting leave was the start of getting control back.

You say one side of the elite won over the other. Would you like to explain? The vast majority of them wanted to remain.

You have just explained it -the elite were on both sides, as you say. If remain had won, the elite public school boys etc. would have won. The leave are from the same group- Public schoolboys etc. and they won. 'We' - the mugs - lost.

 

[martcov]

If Remain had have won he would have been saying 'All is fair in love and war ' ! I'm not bothered who leads us out as long as someone does !

If remain had won we would have had stability. We would not be entering a voluntary recession and we would not have hundreds of civil servants and lawyers having to entangle us from 40 years of integration. Cameron would be PM and Labour would not be imploding. Sturgeon would have nothing to say and Sinn Fein would grudgingly accept the Status quo. We could be plotting with Germany and the old East Bloc countries to reform the system. But, instead of that we gave the three- now doomed - tossers their moment in the sun. There would not have been the 'hangover' and there would be no back tracking from remain as the pound would not have collapsed and there would be no need to explain such things as the 350m.

 

[Astute]

You have just explained it -the elite were on both sides, as you say. If remain had won, the elite public school boys etc. would have won. The leave are from the same group- Public schoolboys etc. and they won. 'We' - the mugs - lost.

How many of the so called elite wanted out for the right reasons and not to further their political careers?

The so called public schoolboys are normally loaded. And the more money you have the more chance there is that you voted remain.

 

[Grendel]

If remain had won we would have had stability. We would not be entering a voluntary recession and we would not have hundreds of civil servants and lawyers having to entangle us from 40 years of integration. Cameron would be PM and Labour would not be imploding. Sturgeon would have nothing to say and Sinn Fein would grudgingly accept the Status quo. We could be plotting with Germany and the old East Bloc countries to reform the system. But, instead of that we gave the three- now doomed - tossers their moment in the sun. There would not have been the 'hangover' and there would be no back tracking from remain as the pound would not have collapsed and there would be no need to explain such things as the 350m.

eal

I'm sorry but you really need to get over here and stop believing Merkels version of Mein Kampf.

Stability in the Eurozone is a joke frankly. Take a trip to Athens and see what the eurozone defines as stability.

Cameron was only PM with a Conservative majority as he promised the referendum. Without that promise he would still be whoring himself to some other party to cling to power.

Labour would not be imploding - LOL. where have you been? They have been imploding ever since Corbyn was elected. I am baffled by this statement actually

Sturgeon will always have plenty to say but hey she may want a referendum and you will oppose that and accuse her of Nazi style politics I assume. Also on this subject I really would like you to explain why they still say they want to retain the sterling. Why? I mean surely this is an opportunity to join the wonderful Euro - a true powerhouse on the currency markets

Ireland joining the Euro - good luck with that - bring it on

The pound has not collapsed and if it has you'd better tell Nicola - she still seems to want it - is she an idiot as well?

 

[martcov]

How many of the so called elite wanted out for the right reasons and not to further their political careers?

The so called public schoolboys are normally loaded. And the more money you have the more chance there is that you voted remain.

Impossible to know who voted for the right reasons.

I don't agree that the young people that voted remain have more money. Maybe the older ones, but I don't know.

 

[Astute]

If remain had won we would have had stability. We would not be entering a voluntary recession and we would not have hundreds of civil servants and lawyers having to entangle us from 40 years of integration. Cameron would be PM and Labour would not be imploding. Sturgeon would have nothing to say and Sinn Fein would grudgingly accept the Status quo. We could be plotting with Germany and the old East Bloc countries to reform the system. But, instead of that we gave the three- now doomed - tossers their moment in the sun. There would not have been the 'hangover' and there would be no back tracking from remain as the pound would not have collapsed and there would be no need to explain such things as the 350m.

Fuck me you are taking the piss with your lies now. If not you don't have a clue what is going on in the UK.

1, We are not in recession.

2, It is better for this institution that we have become a part of without voting for to become part of the past before we are fully ruled by a federal state of the EU that you say you want. Most other countries don't want it either but are now reliant on the bailouts that they get. Those people getting us worldwide trade deals that the EU wouldn't let us have are what is needed.

3, Is it a bad thing that Cameron is going?

4, Labour have been imploding for years. And the Tory supporters paid their money so they could vote for the next Labour leader. That is why they ended up with the total outsider who was the worse out of the lot of them.

5, So we should have voted remain to keep Sturgeon happy?

6, So you know that Ireland would have run perfectly if we would have voted remain?

7, The biggest bit wrong about your post. The EU made the statement that nothing was on the table and nothing would be on the table about changes. That was after Cameron tried to make out that it was. Juncker is aiming at a federal state, people like yourself want it and there isn't a lot that can stop it unless countries start leaving the EU or they manage to get rid of Juncker and replace him with someone who wants what is best for the majority.

8, The £ hasn't collapsed. We have the dip that was expected while we have uncertainty.

9, Why don't you concentrate about the lies from both sides instead of just the same one all the time. And from those that said they would put money into certain things when they would never be in a position to do so. Or do you think that Farage had a chance of making the decisions?

 

[clint van damme]

Fuck me you are taking the piss with your lies now. If not you don't have a clue what is going on in the UK.

1, We are not in recession.

2, It is better for this institution that we have become a part of without voting for to become part of the past before we are fully ruled by a federal state of the EU that you say you want. Most other countries don't want it either but are now reliant on the bailouts that they get. Those people getting us worldwide trade deals that the EU wouldn't let us have are what is needed.

3, Is it a bad thing that Cameron is going?

4, Labour have been imploding for years. And the Tory supporters paid their money so they could vote for the next Labour leader. That is why they ended up with the total outsider who was the worse out of the lot of them.

5, So we should have voted remain to keep Sturgeon happy?

6, So you know that Ireland would have run perfectly if we would have voted remain?

7, The biggest bit wrong about your post. The EU made the statement that nothing was on the table and nothing would be on the table about changes. That was after Cameron tried to make out that it was. Juncker is aiming at a federal state, people like yourself want it and there isn't a lot that can stop it unless countries start leaving the EU or they manage to get rid of Juncker and replace him with someone who wants what is best for the majority.

8, The £ hasn't collapsed. We have the dip that was expected while we have uncertainty.

9, Why don't you concentrate about the lies from both sides instead of just the same one all the time. And from those that said they would put money into certain things when they would never be in a position to do so. Or do you think that Farage had a chance of making the decisions?

you say Corbyn is the worst of the lot of them, yet as the Chilcott report this week proved, he was pretty much bang on the money about the Iraq war.

 

[Astute]

you say Corbyn is the worst of the lot of them, yet as the Chilcott report this week proved, he was pretty much bang on the money about the Iraq war.

And that made him the top labour candidate? You must be a Tory voter then. Hardly any labour MP's wanted him. He has no charisma at all. They need someone to pull them together and rebuild.

 

[Captain Dart]

you say Corbyn is the worst of the lot of them, yet as the Chilcott report this week proved, he was pretty much bang on the money about the Iraq war.

Having a strong moral compass isn't actually the most important quality in a party leader.

 

[clint van damme]

And that made him the top labour candidate? You must be a Tory voter then. Hardly any labour MP's wanted him. He has no charisma at all. They need someone to pull them together and rebuild.

The party members wanted him. Thats more important than what a load of tory lite blaitites want.
And saying having a strong moral compass isn't a good quality just shows what a mess we're in.

 

[Kingokings204]

you say Corbyn is the worst of the lot of them, yet as the Chilcott report this week proved, he was pretty much bang on the money about the Iraq war.

He was bang on but that doesn't make him a good leader. Or a good PM.

The fact is most people see corbyn as a lunatic and won't touch him with a barge pole. To prove this look how many have resigned and their latest election results. Labour as it stands are finished.

My tip would be for them to actually represent the working man from Sunderland and they might fair a lot better than jokers like corbyn and milliband. Even I might vote labour again if they actually represented a hard working man from Coventry like me not just pacifists who won't even shoot terrorists like corbyn.

 

[Monners]

What a mad thread! Anyway, looking forward to poor water quality! Oh, and more polluted air!

 

[Kingokings204]

What a mad thread! Anyway, looking forward to poor water quality! Oh, and more polluted air!

That isn't helping the madness

 

[martcov]

eal

I'm sorry but you really need to get over here and stop believing Merkels version of Mein Kampf.

Stability in the Eurozone is a joke frankly. Take a trip to Athens and see what the eurozone defines as stability.

Cameron was only PM with a Conservative majority as he promised the referendum. Without that promise he would still be whoring himself to some other party to cling to power.

Labour would not be imploding - LOL. where have you been? They have been imploding ever since Corbyn was elected. I am baffled by this statement actually

Sturgeon will always have plenty to say but hey she may want a referendum and you will oppose that and accuse her of Nazi style politics I assume. Also on this subject I really would like you to explain why they still say they want to retain the sterling. Why? I mean surely this is an opportunity to join the wonderful Euro - a true powerhouse on the currency markets

Ireland joining the Euro - good luck with that - bring it on

The pound has not collapsed and if it has you'd better tell Nicola - she still seems to want it - is she an idiot as well?

Merkel's statement 'wir schaffen es' doesn't fit in with the boring rant of 'Mein Kampf'. That was more about blaming others for the country's problems. I don't think that it's author would have helped a million refugees. He was a demagogue more for leaving international Organisations such as the 'League of Nations'. Sounds familiar.

How many countries in the Eurozone are at Greece' level? We are not even in the Eurozone.

Labour did not have the Resignations and vote before Brexit.

Having a referendum is not a Nazi policy ( the Swiss have them and are good at them ), but they can be easily manipulated by demagogues.

I think Scotland is in a dilemma. We have no right to bring them out of the EU, but they are not in the best bargaining position at the moment.

Ireland are in the Euro and the pound has collapsed. What are you on?

 

[Grendel]

Having a strong moral compass isn't actually the most important quality in a party leader.

Also somewhat ironic that Mr Corbyn and his henchman mr McDonnell tell the party to back the leader when Mr Corbyn has actually voted against his party over 500 times.

As for moral compass it seems to swing very deep to the South when Jewish rights are mentioned.

I'm sure he did say he objected to the war. I wouldn't expect anything else from a man who described Jewish murders as his friends. Would you?

 

[chiefdave]

Also somewhat ironic that Mr Corbyn and his henchman mr McDonnell tell the party to back the leader when Mr Corbyn has actually voted against his party over 500 times.

I think its somewhat difference. Corbyn has generally voted in line with his conscience and been happy to discuss his beliefs and reasoning with anyone. Even Rees-Mogg said he admired him for that.

This is a co-ordinated attempt to remove from power someone who has a clear mandate from the membership. You may not think he could win an election, they may not think he could win an election, that may very well be the case but surely a party has to be representative of its membership?

Those like Eagles and Johnson have been instructed by their CLP to back Corbyn and both have ignored those instructions.

Its dangerous territory to get into. Many people have already given up on politics as they feel they have no influence and no one to represent their views. If the overwhelming support of the Labour membership is ignored how can they be expected to retain members and voters?

 

[mrtrench]

Having a strong moral compass isn't actually the most important quality in a party leader.

You started it...

A strong moral compass? The man is a fuckwit. He supported the IRA. He supported terrorists in the Middle East and God knows where. He's anti-everything and like all extremists but hasn't got a positive word to say about anything. He understands nothing about economics - he supports the socialist experiment that's been tried over and over again through history and led the countries into isolation, poverty and hatred every single time. I support his right to say whatever he wants but God help the country if the hard Left ever got control over anything. It's one thing being an angry young man at 18, it's quite another at 60 or however old he is.

 

[Kingokings204]

You started it...

A strong moral compass? The man is a fuckwit. He supported the IRA. He supported terrorists in the Middle East and God knows where. He's anti-everything and like all extremists but hasn't got a positive word to say about anything. He understands nothing about economics - he supports the socialist experiment that's been tried over and over again through history and led the countries into isolation, poverty and hatred every single time. I support his right to say whatever he wants but God help the country if the hard Left ever got control over anything. It's one thing being an angry young man at 18, it's quite another at 60 or however old he is.

This is exactly why people are moving away from labour to ukip and green or whoever.

This man corbyn is a lunatic. He has gone on record saying don't shoot terrorists. He has befriended the IRA as Grendel said and he supports mass immigration big time. He is a liability and he is unelectable. This coup against him is for a reason. He is driving labour into the ground.

He is on the very hard left and that's just as bad a hard right for me. People don't vote for it in the main. Voting Corbyn in was worth every penny all those Tories and whoever signed up for membership.

Labour need a man I repeat who represents Mick from Sunderland or terry from grimsby. If they pick a posh boy like milliband or a lunatic like corbyn who wants to abolish the queen and monarchy then forget labour in every election.

 

[chiefdave]

I support his right to say whatever he wants

And isn't that the key point? I'm not a Labour supporter but if I was I'd be fuming over what was going on at the moment.

Corbyn got 60% of the vote when there was four candidates - the biggest win there has ever been.

Since then Labour party membership has surged to 500K, the highest it's ever been and more than the other main parties combined. 100K have joined since the leadership challenge.

Labour have won every by-election under Corbyn and increased their majority.

They've won London, Salford, Bristol and Liverpool mayoral elections.

He's regularly giving speeches in the street as when he turns up somewhere the venues aren't large enough to hold the people wanting to get in.

Love him or hate him the bloke has had an impact and I can't help thinking Labour would be better off trying to work out how to harness that impact than the civil war they are currently engaged in.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why do people keep insisting that the pound isn't collapsing when it clearly has and also hasn't shown any real signs of recovery.

Don't take my word for it. Follow this link and look for yourself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/default.stm

Click on any of the currencies from around the world and the graph is almost identical for the last month, it's not just against the US dollar. The only currency the pound can even be remotely claimed to be not collapsing to is Argentina's and personally I don't take that one currency against all the other's as a sign of the pound not collapsing. It's a myth that the pound hasn't collapsed and frankly you must have your head stuck up your arse if you can't see that. I've been keeping a close eye on currency for a couple of weeks now and today was one of the better days. Still not good though.

 

[mrtrench]

And isn't that the key point? I'm not a Labour supporter but if I was I'd be fuming over what was going on at the moment.

Corbyn got 60% of the vote when there was four candidates - the biggest win there has ever been.

Since then Labour party membership has surged to 500K, the highest it's ever been and more than the other main parties combined. 100K have joined since the leadership challenge.

Labour have won every by-election under Corbyn and increased their majority.

They've won London, Salford, Bristol and Liverpool mayoral elections.

He's regularly giving speeches in the street as when he turns up somewhere the venues aren't large enough to hold the people wanting to get in.

Love him or hate him the bloke has had an impact and I can't help thinking Labour would be better off trying to work out how to harness that impact than the civil war they are currently engaged in.

I think the nature of this kind of extremism is that he's already harnessed every single person who agrees with him - I've never met an unenthusiastic Militant; they are all now party members. Labour will always get a number of other votes from people who vote on brand but I cannot see them ever winning an election whilst the hard left have control. IMO this is what this civil war is about: the Labour brand. The moderate, sensible people want the brand so that they can take those 10% of the population that will vote Labour no matter what they say.