The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (238 Viewers)

[Astute]

Www.express.co.uk/news/politics/677905/EU-president-tusk-juncker-shulz-pay-perks-pensions-revealed-unelected

Not bad for those not even elected for their jobs. Yet some just want to stick up for the 'jobs for the boys'

 

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[chiefdave]

So how many years of training just to give it all up to become an MP?

Started his internship in 1975 and qualified as a surgeon in 1979 so 4 years. Then practiced until 1993 (18 years).

He didn't give it all up to become an MP. He became an MP in 1992 after being Supreme Deputy of Lithuania for 2 years, while still working. He wrote the Lithuanian constitution, again while still working.

When the law changed in 1993 forbidding MPs to have non-parliamentary employment was the point at which he 'gave it all up'

 

[Astute]

Read Chief Dave's Post. He had to give it up. Read the CV and when you have done that tell me again that he never had a job. You have gone mad trying to support this disaster. Even if he gave his job up he still had a Job. Farage's own company is in voluntary insolvency. I wish he would give up his job at the parliament. He is a hypocrite.

Yes I can read. Like I said he gave it up to be an MP. Look at my last post and work out why he did

 

[Astute]

When the law changed in 1993 forbidding MPs to have non-parliamentary employment was the point at which he 'gave it all up'

So he gave it up to be an MP.

 

[chiefdave]

Yes I can read. Like I said he gave it up to be an MP. Look at my last post and work out why he did

He was a Lithuanian MP when he left. Their salary is around £20K a year.

 

[chiefdave]

So he gave it up to be an MP.

Not really. He was doing both jobs until a change in the law required that to end.

This was your original post. The implication is clear.

Surgeon for 6 years. Gave it up 1993? So he took longer in training than in the job.

The reality is he trained for 4 years and practiced for 18 only leaving the profession when he couldn't maintain both roles due to a change in the law. Given the salary of a Lithuanian MP I suspect in leaving the medical profession he gave up the bigger salary.

 

[Kingokings204]

Farage was in the Conservative party until 1992 around the time the Maastricht treaty was signed.
He is posh and is your archetypal Tory, just too Euro sceptic to fit into the Tory party as it stands. Don't kid yourself that he's one of you. He is a former investment banker.
I voted leave like you but not because of Farage. (PS, in political posts, the acronym 'NF' is generally meant for a party slightly to the right of UKIP).

Sorry couldn't be arsed to keep typing his full name lol

You're quite right he was in the Tory party and I certainly don't think he is one of me. I didn't vote because of farage also but I did agree with some of his points all the same. Especially about trade.

However one small point as you and tony have repeated it. He wasn't a banker but a commodity trader so he probably hates the banks like the rest of us. Although his son his a banker (no pun) I believe.

 

[martcov]

So he gave it up to be an MP.

Did he have a job to give up or not?

 

[Kingokings204]

Unelected Juncker, 61, 2 years so far in position. £245,629 pay. Plus residential allowance £36,844. Plus monthly expense allowance £1,135. Plus pension for life at 65 of £52,500. So 7 years gets him a pension that the vast majority can only dream of.

And he is not alone. The other unelected are on similar

I think that's what they call the gravy train. Tells you everything you need to know about the EU. Wasn't that van Rompuy guy on the same and retired to half a million just like that. Makes you sick.

 

[Kingokings204]

Well according to Astute that is as Farage said ' never had a proper Job in his Life'. Kingofkings is convinced that Farage is honest and standing up to the establishment. Farage knows full well people will post his speech without the facts. Spin at it's best. Kok even believes it was Farage's referendum and that Johnson is honest.

Never said such words and neither has astute. You're just putting words in our mouths. I said farage is the only one who seems to stand up to the establishment and Boris is very much liked because he at least makes the odd mistake and admits is making him very likable.

For the record I don't trust any of them but i prefer some to others like everyone and everyone will have their own personal favourites.

Look I know you are bitter about the result that leave won. But if we actually all come together things will work and be better than before. If we keep name calling and being bitter then more fool you.

 

[martcov]

Www.express.co.uk/news/politics/677905/EU-president-tusk-juncker-shulz-pay-perks-pensions-revealed-unelected

Not bad for those not even elected for their jobs. Yet some just want to stick up for the 'jobs for the boys'

Who appointed Mrs May? Did the electorate have any choice in the case of the new PM? Who appointed the Queen? Who appointed the members of the House of Lords? The UK is one state formed by 3 countries and 1 province with open borders, a single currency and free movement of people governed ultimately by an unelected head of state and an upper chamber of non-elected peers and bishops. In comparison, the EU is more democrartic, but you don't like the EU. You are sticking up for our unelected elite. A part of our establishment prefers not to have to answer to the EU establishment - whether or not that is better for the rest of the population remains to be seen.

 

[martcov]

I think that's what they call the gravy train. Tells you everything you need to know about the EU. Wasn't that van Rompuy guy on the same and retired to half a million just like that. Makes you sick.

Ask Farage he knows how best to ride the gravy train. It is bad, but it is only one aspect of the EU.

 

[Kingokings204]

Ask Farage he knows how best to ride the gravy train. It is bad, but it is only one aspect of the EU.

It's all a gravy train. All politicians are on it in the eu. Farage not different. I wouldn't give it up either would you? We agree on something at least Martcov.

 

[chiefdave]

I think that's what they call the gravy train.

Personally I'd like to see wages slashed in politics. Start with our own MPs.

Make it so they all receive the average UK wage or something similar. I'd also stop all this second home rubbish. Would be much cheaper in the long run to build accommodation for MPs. Give them the basics they need, you could even have services they need for work, such as secretaries, on site. Could put office space in as well and help with the overcrowding issue in parliament.

Would also ban secondary incomes and place restrictions on what positions can be taken after leaving parliament, or put a high tax rate on them. Stop MPs acting in, for example, the banks interest and then getting a nice well paying position when they leave parliament.

 

[martcov]

Never said such words and neither has astute. You're just putting words in our mouths. I said farage is the only one who seems to stand up to the establishment and Boris is very much liked because he at least makes the odd mistake and admits is making him very likable.

For the record I don't trust any of them but i prefer some to others like everyone and everyone will have their own personal favourites.

Look I know you are bitter about the result that leave won. But if we actually all come together things will work and be better than before. If we keep name calling and being bitter then more fool you.

Astute is saying that Farage is right and quotes the CV of a Lithuanian MEP as 'proof'.

Farage is standing up for Farage and is part of the banking and public school elite.

Boris is a clown and people like a clown. But, he is dishonest and doesn't always admit his mistakes - that is why the Times sacked him.

I am bitter that my countrymen believed these demagogues and I think we will be worse off not having a future say in matters of the EU. Time will tell, but we can already see the bullshit from the likes of Johnson and Farage.

The campaign to keep as much of the benefits of EU membership must continue and if possible allow a future return if the attitude of the voters changes e.g. if the negotiations go pear shape.

 

[martcov]

It's all a gravy train. All politicians are on it in the eu. Farage not different. I wouldn't give it up either would you? We agree on something at least Martcov.

Yes we do ( not every politcian is just there for the gravy train - not even Farage ). But I wouldn't make a big show of saying I want my life back, whilst at the same time milking the gravy train in a worse way ( hardly ever attending ) than the people I am criticising.

 

[martcov]

Personally I'd like to see wages slashed in politics. Start with our own MPs.

Make it so they all receive the average UK wage or something similar. I'd also stop all this second home rubbish. Would be much cheaper in the long run to build accommodation for MPs. Give them the basics they need, you could even have services they need for work, such as secretaries, on site. Could put office space in as well and help with the overcrowding issue in parliament.

Would also ban secondary incomes and place restrictions on what positions can be taken after leaving parliament, or put a high tax rate on them. Stop MPs acting in, for example, the banks interest and then getting a nice well paying position when they leave parliament.

The Germans are linked to the pay of high court judges - but who pays the judges? The average income would be fairer. If the country was doing well they would benefit, if not, they would know how we feel.

 

[chiefdave]

The average income would be fairer. If the country was doing well they would benefit, if not, they would know how we feel.

Exactly. I suspect you'd also see an end to career politicians who do very little but pocket a huge amount of cash. How many MPs these days aren't even from the area they represent.

 

[Astute]

Astute is saying that Farage is right and quotes the CV of a Lithuanian MEP as 'proof'.

Farage is standing up for Farage and is part of the banking and public school elite.

Boris is a clown and people like a clown. But, he is dishonest and doesn't always admit his mistakes - that is why the Times sacked him.

I am bitter that my countrymen believed these demagogues and I think we will be worse off not having a future say in matters of the EU. Time will tell, but we can already see the bullshit from the likes of Johnson and Farage.

The campaign to keep as much of the benefits of EU membership must continue and if possible allow a future return if the attitude of the voters changes e.g. if the negotiations go pear shape.

So you continue to agree with us about Farage and Boris but make out that we say differently. OK.

If you are going to keep having a go why don't you say anything about what Juncker has done or said. You will have read the link I posted about their pay. And it also says some of the things he has done including racist comments. But strangely enough you have not mentioned anything about him. Why is that?

 

[Astute]

Who appointed Mrs May? Did the electorate have any choice in the case of the new PM? Who appointed the Queen? Who appointed the members of the House of Lords? The UK is one state formed by 3 countries and 1 province with open borders, a single currency and free movement of people governed ultimately by an unelected head of state and an upper chamber of non-elected peers and bishops. In comparison, the EU is more democrartic, but you don't like the EU. You are sticking up for our unelected elite. A part of our establishment prefers not to have to answer to the EU establishment - whether or not that is better for the rest of the population remains to be seen.

May part of an unelected government? Yes. But we will have the chance to vote her out. The Queen now makes the rules and laws does she? You have been in Germany too long to remember the truth.

Now let's get back to Juncker and similar. They were never voted in. And we can never vote them out. Juncker behaves badly. But they either can't or won't do anything about it. Yet you try and say that we are as bad as them.

And you can't blame The Mail for this as the link wasn't for the Mail.

So how does Juncker get away with things like he does? It is an absolute joke.

 

[martcov]

So you continue to agree with us about Farage and Boris but make out that we say differently. OK.

If you are going to keep having a go why don't you say anything about what Juncker has done or said. You will have read the link I posted about their pay. And it also says some of the things he has done including racist comments. But strangely enough you have not mentioned anything about him. Why is that?

I don't like Juncker and I have mentioned the accusations of heavy drinking, e.g. Cognac for breakfast, before on this thread. We were, however, talking about Farage and Johnson because KoK has said that both are honest. You were saying that you don't want open borders, unelected politicians, a single currency - I was just pointing out that, in the case of the UK, you already have all these, but take them for granted.

 

[Astute]

Www.express.co.uk/news/politics/677905/EU-president-tusk-juncker-shulz-pay-perks-pensions-revealed-unelected

Just in case you forgot what it said about Juncker and the others.

 

[martcov]

May part of an unelected government? Yes. But we will have the chance to vote her out. The Queen now makes the rules and laws does she? You have been in Germany too long to remember the truth.

Now let's get back to Juncker and similar. They were never voted in. And we can never vote them out. Juncker behaves badly. But they either can't or won't do anything about it. Yet you try and say that we are as bad as them.

And you can't blame The Mail for this as the link wasn't for the Mail.

So how does Juncker get away with things like he does? It is an absolute joke.

Tusk does not make the rules as President either. Juncker was appointed by elected representatives and will - shortly - be removed by them. I agree the commission should be more democratic and transparent - so do a lot of European polititians. Whether the link comes from the Mail or the Express is immaterial. The question is whether we would be better off in or out of the EU? We also have political scandals e.g. over expenses, but we are still a parliamentary democracy and have to take care of these problems by introducing more accountabilty, which we are doing. So the EU must do the same - no disagreement there.

 

[Astute]

I don't like Juncker and I have mentioned the accusations of heavy drinking, e.g. Cognac for breakfast, before on this thread. We were, however, talking about Farage and Johnson because KoK has said that both are honest. You were saying that you don't want open borders, unelected politicians, a single currency - I was just pointing out that, in the case of the UK, you already have all these, but take them for granted.

How many times have you said about Juncker making racist comments?

You were going on about Farage and Boris because you haven't stopped going on about them since the vote didn't go the way you wanted.

I said I didn't want open borders because you can't stop the wrong people coming in. You can't do police checks. And we have had yet another atrocity in France. Open borders are not good.

Unelected as in people who never need voting in or to stay in.

Single currency like the failing Euro. Where countries have no control. Nobody in their right mind would want it.

 

[Astute]

Tusk does not make the rules as President either. Juncker was appointed by elected representatives and will - shortly - be removed by them. I agree the commission should be more democratic and transparent - so do a lot of European polititians. Whether the link comes from the Mail or the Express is immaterial. The question is whether we would be better off in or out of the EU? We also have political scandals e.g. over expenses, but we are still a parliamentary democracy and have to take care of these problems by introducing more accountabilty, which we are doing. So the EU must do the same - no disagreement there.

You can't get rid of Juncker. If you could he would already be gone. But he is in for the 5 year term. And not only does he get a lot of money for it he gets a pension of over 50k a year for 5 years in the job.

Yes we will be better off out of the EU.

 

[Kingokings204]

I don't like Juncker and I have mentioned the accusations of heavy drinking, e.g. Cognac for breakfast, before on this thread. We were, however, talking about Farage and Johnson because KoK has said that both are honest. You were saying that you don't want open borders, unelected politicians, a single currency - I was just pointing out that, in the case of the UK, you already have all these, but take them for granted.

We do have open borders and no checks. Look at that Latvian bloke who murdered Alice gross and this week we learn he murdered his wife in Latvia and was still allowed here and he did the same to another girl. Government with blood on their hands if you ask me. We all want immigration but it has to be controlled if it isn't you get murders and crime up from immigration. The jails are full up of Romanian gangs and Islamist terror cells. It's well known now.

Luckily we did indeed keep the pound which has been our savior really. And I agree with your previous point that Greece and Spain did struggle before joining the euro but you seem to miss the point. They were buillied and forced into joining the euro zone when every economist going said good god don't join. You are not suited to it in any way. But the big banks and big politics namely Goldman Sachs forced them in and now it's worse than it ever was. So that's my point.

 

[tisza]

Personally I'd like to see wages slashed in politics. Start with our own MPs.

Make it so they all receive the average UK wage or something similar. I'd also stop all this second home rubbish. Would be much cheaper in the long run to build accommodation for MPs. Give them the basics they need, you could even have services they need for work, such as secretaries, on site. Could put office space in as well and help with the overcrowding issue in parliament.

Would also ban secondary incomes and place restrictions on what positions can be taken after leaving parliament, or put a high tax rate on them. Stop MPs acting in, for example, the banks interest and then getting a nice well paying position when they leave parliament.

always had a different opinion on the 1st part of this.
MPs wages should be high to hopefully attract brighter & more capable candidates.
Secondary housing - just build a dormitory near to Parliament!!
Staffing levels should be set depending on the job they are in and financed by central govt.
post-MP work should be regulated far more strictly.

 

[Astute]

If we gave them the average wage there would be people that have never worked on more money than them.

 

[martcov]

How many times have you said about Juncker making racist comments?

You were going on about Farage and Boris because you haven't stopped going on about them since the vote didn't go the way you wanted.

I said I didn't want open borders because you can't stop the wrong people coming in. You can't do police checks. And we have had yet another atrocity in France. Open borders are not good.

Unelected as in people who never need voting in or to stay in.

Single currency like the failing Euro. Where countries have no control. Nobody in their right mind would want it.

I don't like Juncker. Full stop. Farage and Boris promised a future in the sun.... They 'won' let's see where we go from here. They are responsible for many people voting leave by lying to them - that is why I am having a go at them. Juncker didn't help either by being as he is - but he didn't lead the leave campaign.

The atrocity in France was caused by a French Tunisian. There are loads of Arabs in the south of France ( I smacked one once as he was sitting in a police car once - not because of his race, but because he was a twat. I distracted the copper ( flic ) and smacked the guy - his mate had just smashed into my car with a stolen moped. The copper said "bien fait" ( well done ). But back to the point.... that is because of their colonial past - not the EU ( or Merkel ).

The French do not like the Arabs. It seems that is mutual.

The Euro is still there. Latvia joined recently and Estonia not so long ago, so although people moan about it, there is still demand to join the zone out there.

 

[Astute]

I don't like Juncker. Full stop.

I don't like Farage or Boris. Full stop.

Does this mean that I don't have to bring them up in anything and only mention them when pushed now?

 

[martcov]

I don't like Farage or Boris. Full stop.

Does this mean that I don't have to bring them up in anything and only mention them when pushed now?

I thought we were talking about Boris because he is in the news ( Army Bike posted on this thread ) and Farage because KoK was praising him.

Whatever Juncker may earn, say, or be, he wasn't what we were talking about.

 

[Astute]

I thought we were talking about Boris because he is in the news ( Army Bike posted on this thread ) and Farage because KoK was praising him.

Whatever Juncker may earn, say, or be, he wasn't what we were talking about.

Like I said we are always talking about Boris and Farage because you always bring them up. You then accuse me of saying things that I haven't.

You might not want to talk about Juncker. But many others do. Things would be much better in the EU without Juncker. He is a power crazed racist idiot. And he wants to keep a stranglehold on the EU for another 4 years. So he is going to give us a hard time for going against his wishes.

 

[martcov]

Like I said we are always talking about Boris and Farage because you always bring them up. You then accuse me of saying things that I haven't.

You might not want to talk about Juncker. But many others do. Things would be much better in the EU without Juncker. He is a power crazed racist idiot. And he wants to keep a stranglehold on the EU for another 4 years. So he is going to give us a hard time for going against his wishes.

I agree with you entirely about Juncker. I think he will be put under pressure to resign and the EU will introduce more democracy in future.

If you want to talk more about Juncker, please do. We seem to agree on that and I am not arguing against you.

 

[Captain Dart]

I agree with you entirely about Juncker. I think he will be put under pressure to resign and the EU will introduce more democracy in future.

If you want to talk more about Juncker, please do. We seem to agree on that and I am not arguing against you.

Only because of Brexit, that was my main motivation for voting leave.

 

[ccfc92]

Time will tell, but you could still end up with immigration and having to comply with EU regulations, but with no say in the matter. The deal has yet to be done.

There are years of bureaucratic negotiations to come.

Up until now nothing has happened to our trading conditions.

Why would we have to agree to EU regulations, if we are not in the EU?

I know that negotiations need to happen, but I can't see them being negative. It benefits us and the EU to work out a good deal.