Break even (16 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Should we be one of the few football clubs in the league who break even, If it means we are a mid table division three side.....

please discuss

 

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[Nick]

Like the last time you said the same thing about us being break even?

What do you want to be discussed?

If we are self sufficient then we are where we are, it's shit but it's how it is

 

[italiahorse]

Should we be one of the few football clubs in the league who break even, If it means we are a mid table division three side.....

please discuss

Sisu need to review what they want in view that fans are slowly leaving.
Fans aspirations are to get out this league but Sisu clearly don't have the same aspirations.
Admittedly Sisu would need to put in money to get us out of this division but surely last year a punt would be have reaped rewards after Mowbray put us top just before Xmas ?

 

[dongonzalos]

Like the last time you said the same thing about us being break even?

What do you want to be discussed?

If we are self sufficient then we are where we are, it's shit but it's how it is

thats a statement of where we are.
Not a opinion of whether you think it is where we should be or not.
I posted where we are at the beginning. I am asking for opinions, not wood splints


Discuss.....

 

[Nick]

thats a statement of where we are.
Not a opinion of whether you think it is where we should be or not.
I posted where we are at the beginning. I am asking for opinions, not wood splints


Discuss.....

What point are you trying to get at?

 

[dongonzalos]

What point are you trying to get at?

Your opinion on whether we should run at break even or not.

Think my op was quite clear to be fair

 

[Nick]

Your opinion on whether we should run at break even or not.

Think my op was quite clear to be fair

Nope, as like all of the other random threads you start it's clearly to get at something.

Like most, id love a billionaire saudi to gift us millions, but they aren't.

Do you want the club to spend money it doesn't have and get more debt to sisu?

 

[skybluetony176]

If people are happy with us operating at breakeven they shouldn't be overly disappointed if we're not romping away in the league. Breakeven is great but it makes it difficult to build a promotion chasing team without time to build one. Some of those who jump on anyone who mention investment in the team also seem to be the ones who don't want to give the time to the manager to build something on a tight budget.

 

[dongonzalos]

Nope, as like all of the other random threads you start it's clearly to get at something.

Like most, id love a billionaire saudi to gift us millions, but they aren't.

Do you want the club to spend money it doesn't have and get more debt to sisu?

Question answered with a question
So nick do you think we should be one of the few clubs in the league to be run at break even, if that means we stay as a mid table divisions three side?

(Hopefully you will answer at some point)

By the way I hope for a billionaire as well

 

[dongonzalos]

If people are happy with us operating at breakeven they shouldn't be overly disappointed if we're not romping away in the league. Breakeven is great but it makes it difficult to build a promotion chasing team without time to build one. Some of those who jump on anyone who mention investment in the team also seem to be the ones who don't want to give the time to the manager to build something on a tight budget.

Tony thankyou for an answer. As oppose to attacking me for having the cheek to start a thread!!

Heaven forbid

 

[Nick]

Question answered with a question
So nick do you think we should be one of the few clubs in the league to be run at break even, if that means we stay as a mid tabke divisions three side?

(Hopefully you will answer at some point)

By the way I hope for a billionaire as well

Break even would be better than spending money the club doesn't have. It means we don't owe more to sisu and it makes us more desirable than a club leaking lots.

The same as I've said in other threads about it.

Still trying to figure out what you are trying to get at....

 

[dongonzalos]

I would like SISU as owners to speculate.
Not crazy money but I would like the to trust TM.
I would have like them to fund raise this summer, whilst we have TM and give him a top two budget.
A budget that doesn't fall in the debts of the club and is paid off on promotion.
(My opinion)
I don't like sitting mid table in division three forever

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Any business should always look to profit or at least break even . The one thing you dont do is piss your customers off ! If Sisu had nt pissed everybody off , the gates , merchandise would be so much higher , better budget , no need to chuck money at it , They have no money to invest because there is nothing to invest in now . But yes without a wealthy backer , we have no choice but to live within our means .

 

[stupot07]

The whole point of FFP in leagues one and two is to encourage teams to spend within their means and not amass debt. The rules are still reletively new and it will take time but I would bet that in 5-10 years time the majority if league one and two will be break even or close to break even.

Given we have pretty much been in admin position twice - once prevented by the sale to sisu and then again under Sisu, you'd think our fans would be more cautious about wanting to throw money away. This is why fan ownership will never work at this club.

Yes, we should aspire to be selft sufficient, it puts us on the best financial footing and will make us a more attractive proposition for any prospective buyer. Our fan base and revenues should be large enough to build and plenty of teams have finished in the top 6 with lower budgets than ours. It doesn't have to mean midtable, and you can build a decent squad.


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[dongonzalos]

Any business should always look to profit or at least break even . The one thing you dont do is piss your customers off ! If Sisu had nt pissed everybody off , the gates , merchandise would be so much higher , better budget , no need to chuck money at it , They have no money to invest because there is nothing to invest in now . But yes without a wealthy backer , we have no choice but to live within our means .

Thanks for your opinion on the question asked Bruce.
As oppose to just slagging off the question.
( ie the whole point of a forum ask questions)

So your opinion is the owners have no money to gamble with.

 

[Nick]

Thanks for your opinion on the question asked Bruce.
As oppose to just slagging off the question.
( ie the whole point of a forum ask questions)

So your opinion is the owners have no money to gamble with.

Who is slagging off the question? You are doing a bob latchford now.

 

[dongonzalos]

The whole point of FFP in leagues one and two is to encourage teams to spend within their means and not amass debt. The rules are still reletively new and it will take time but I would bet that in 5-10 years time the majority if league one and two will be break even or close to break even.

Given we have pretty much been in admin position twice - once prevented by the sale to sisu and then again under Sisu, you'd think our fans would be more cautious about wanting to throw money away. This is why fan ownership will never work at this club.

Yes, we should aspire to be selft sufficient, it puts us on the best financial footing and will make us a more attractive proposition for any prospective buyer. Our fan base and revenues should be large enough to build and plenty of teams have finished in the top 6 with lower budgets than ours. It doesn't have to mean midtable, and you can build a decent squad.


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Well thought out answer
I appreciate we have our differences but can't fault you on this one Stu.
Do you think SISU should invest themselves and not load the debt onto the club's books?
Please don't talk about the the FFP rules as there are ways around them

 

[dongonzalos]

Who is slagging off the question? You are doing a bob latchford now.

Nope, you are just not answering the question as others are finding it very easy to do.
Take a step back
Have a breath and debate the question as oppose to always looking for the agenda
( well sorry always looking if it's one agenda, I should point out, you are a bit slow on both agendas, nothing personal btw just the obvious)

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Thanks for your opinion on the question asked Bruce.
As oppose to just slagging off the question.
( ie the whole point of a forum ask questions)

So your opinion is the owners have no money to gamble with.

They obviously dont want to invest , hence the poor position we are in , Financial fair play is based on income , the infrastructure, can have as much money chucked at it as you like , no sight of any bricks or mortar . Nobody knows for sure what Sisu s "GAME" is , But at the minute, we are stuck solid living off gate receipts and transfers , We are just treading water . All we can do is break even .

 

[Nick]

Nope, you are just not answering the question as others are finding it very easy to do.
Take a step back
Have a breath and debate the question as oppose to always looking for the agenda
( well sorry always looking if it's one agenda, I should point out, you are a bit slow on both agendas, nothing personal btw just the obvious)

Yeah you ignored the one I made....

I think it's just trying to whip up "sisu should give the club money and not expect it back" which won't happen.

How would the fans be running it now? If anything it's better to run it like that, as it makes it easier for other people to come in and build on.

Again, while id love a gift of loads of money to the club without wanting it back, how realistic is that? You say pay it back on promotion, what then pays for the championship squad after we pay all the money back?

 

[dongonzalos]

Yeah you ignored the one I made....

I think it's just trying to whip up "sisu should give the club money and not expect it back" which won't happen.

How would the fans be running it now?

Sorry have I ignored your answer?
Thought you just asked a question?

If you don't mind posting it again, apologies for missing it.

Should we be one of the few clubs running at break even. If it means we are stuck at mid table in division 3?

 

[stupot07]

Well thought out answer
I appreciate we have our differences but can fault you on this one Stu.
Do you think SISU should invest themselves and not load the debt onto the club's books?
Please don't talk about the the FFP rules as there are ways around them

Regardless of whethere there are ways around FFP they are important to acknowledge, as I do believe that it will encourage clubs not to overspend and owners will start to think twice about putting money into clubs knowing that they won't get it back and it won't even feature on their balance sheet as an IOU.

My personal opinion is that clubs should spend withing their means, the only winners of owners constantly throwing money at their clubs and making millions of pounds worth if losses is the players and agents.

I would rather not be reliant on sisu funding us, regardless of whether it is equity or a loan, so no I would rather we build something Swansea style whilst being frugal and spending sensibly.

It matters not what we think, its not sisus own personal money anyway so they won't gifting great chunks to the club anyway. Mowbrays budget is more than adequate for the league, he needs to prove he is a good manager.

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[dongonzalos]

They obviously dont want to invest , hence the poor position we are in , Financial fair play is based on income , the infrastructure, can have as much money chucked at it as you like , no sight of any bricks or mortar . Nobody knows for sure what Sisu s "GAME" is , But at the minute, we are stuck solid living off gate receipts and transfers , We are just treading water . All we can do is break even .

I think it's quite obvious from other clubs if you want to by pass FFP you can.
I take it you don't think this would be wise move for our owners to do.
Ad on you don't think they would recoup more than they gamble if they gambled?

 

[Nick]

Sorry have I ignored your answer?
Thought you just asked a question?

If you don't mind posting it again, apologies for missing it.

Should we be one of the few clubs running at break even. If it means we are stuck at mid table in division 3?

I'm not sure you could make it any more loaded if you tried could you?

 

[Nick]

I think it's quite obvious from other clubs if you want to by pass FFP you can.
I take it you don't think this would be wise move for our owners to do.
Ad on you don't think they would recoup more than they gamble if they gambled?

How would they recoup it?

Edit: I thought you were replying to the same post, but it wasn't. Sorry

 

[dongonzalos]

Regardless of whethere there are ways around FFP they are important to acknowledge, as I do believe that it will encourage clubs not to overspend and owners will start to think twice about putting money into clubs knowing that they won't get it back and it won't even feature on their balance sheet as an IOU.

My personal opinion is that clubs should spend withing their means, the only winners of owners constantly throwing money at their clubs and making millions of pounds worth if losses is the players and agents.

I would rather not be reliant on sisu funding us, regardless of whether it is equity or a loan, so no I would rather we build something Swansea style whilst being frugal and spending sensibly.

It matters not what we think, its not sisus own personal money anyway so they won't gifting great chunks to the club anyway. Mowbrays budget is more than adequate for the league, he needs to prove he is a good manager.

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Yes SISU invest other people's money.
This is where we may differ slightly (I think)
Steve Waggot said our playing staff budget was between 8th to 6th.
That was prior to the miscalculation.
I assume you agree the increase in ticket prices had not off set that miscalculation?
So do you think TM should get us in the play offs even if the budget isn't in the top six.
If he doesn't do you think he is not a good manager?

 

[dongonzalos]

How would they recoup it?

Edit: I thought you were replying to the same post, but it wasn't. Sorry

So if our budget is not in the top six. I believe it was 8th-6th prior to the mis calculation (Steve Waggot)
We finished 4 points off the top six.

If SISU gamble and give TM a top 2 budget.
He managed to sign his first choice players in the summer.
He doesn't excel but achieves as expected top 2. Like he did last season.
You automatically get 5 million to money
Sponsorship and advertising income woukd increase
Crowds would increase.
You don't have to buy new players (if you have no ambition)
The money would potentially come back

 

[Nick]

Ok so we get the 5 million, we then have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

How would people feel about sisu paying themselves back while we have one of the lowest wage budgets in the division?

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm not sure you could make it any more loaded if you tried could you?

Question to question again, still no answer unfortunately.
What's your answer to the actual question, not your critique about the wording of it please?

 

[Grendel]

Sorry have I ignored your answer?
Thought you just asked a question?

If you don't mind posting it again, apologies for missing it.

Should we be one of the few clubs running at break even. If it means we are stuck at mid table in division 3?

We are not break even. We lose money every year. We are still losing money.

 

[Nick]

Question to question again, still no answer unfortunately.
What's your answer to the actual question, not your critique about the wording of it please?

Yes, I think we should live within our means rather than rack up more debt to sisu, and making us more attractive to other people. Also making it easier if worse came to worst and fans had to step in.

It quite clearly is a loaded question, let's not piss about.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ok so we get the 5 million, we then have one of the lowest turnovers in the championship.

How would people feel about sisu paying themselves back while we have one of the lowest wage budgets in the division?

You asked how they would recoup their money.
I told you how? People like me would want them to speculate again. The big question at that stage would be. Could they convince investors to invest for the big one.
(Not load the debt on the cub)
Speculate on a promotion push to the premier league)
However they wouldn't have to if, they didn't want to. Their investment would still be quids in off a promotion / relegation season from where we are now.

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes, I think we should live within our means rather than rack up more debt to sisu, and making us more attractive to other people. Also making it easier if worse came to worst and fans had to step in.

It quite clearly is a loaded question, let's not piss about.

Do you think SISU should try to raise investment not to be saddled on the club's books. However a gamble on promotion.

(Seperate question to the OP)

 

[Nick]

You asked how they would recoup their money.
I told you how? People like me would want them to speculate again. The big question at that stage would be. Could they convince investors to invest for the big one.
(Not load the debt on the cub)
Speculate on a promotion push to the premier league)
However they wouldn't have if they didn't want to. Their invest rut woukd still be quids in off a promotion / relegation season from where we are now.

So if they put say 2 or 3 million in they could just take it out on promotion to the championship?

If they aren't loading the debt, where is the money coming from and what happens if they do a forest and plough tens of millions in. Have they just pissed it up the wall?

The point you seem to be trying to get at is that somebody should be gifting the club money. It isn't going to happen is it?

 

[dongonzalos]

We are not break even. We lose money every year. We are still losing money.

Yes we do and as we continue to push towards break even, I believe we fall further down the pyramid?