Jon Sharp - BPA (23 Viewers)

[Grendel]

There you go trying to change history again.

Those that took over from Richardson were left with a 60m debt. HR had been sold. The money was gone. Yet you defend Richardson.

You say that it was the rent that caused us the trouble. The wage bill was over 10m. Yet you say that it was OK.

Yes the rent was too high. But it was only a small percentage of the outgoings. Outgoings caused by Richardson.

There you go trying to change history again.

Those that took over from Richardson were left with a 60m debt. HR had been sold. The money was gone. Yet you defend Richardson.

You say that it was the rent that caused us the trouble. The wage bill was over 10m. Yet you say that it was OK.

Yes the rent was too high. But it was only a small percentage of the outgoings. Outgoings caused by Richardson.

You can't even get the basics of an argument right. Why even bother?

 

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[Astute]

You can't even get the basics of an argument right. Why even bother?

Argument?

We are all trying to have a debate. You are trying to cause an argument with your half truths and insults.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You can't even get the basics of an argument right. Why even bother?

Errmmm You still haven't answered Tonys' question yet!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Personally I think there is a much bigger overlap than you think and therefore we cannot be classed as a one club city anymore.

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What would you class Wigan as, or Leeds United, or Bradford, or Hull, or Worcester city, or Blackpool.... Do you want me to go on?

 

[stupot07]

What would you class Wigan as, or Leeds United, or Bradford, or Hull, or Worcester city, or Blackpool.... Do you want me to go on?

2 club cities...must lol at Worcester.

I'd also add that unlike rugby Union thr rugby league season only overlaps a month or so at each end of the season.



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[Grendel]

Argument?

We are all trying to have a debate. You are trying to cause an argument with your half truths and insults.

Insults? I present a reasoned argument - the nuances of which are lost on you and you go off on some ramble about high wages and Bryan Richardson.

You even fail to understand the context of the word argument.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

2 club cities...must lol at Worcester



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Why laugh at Worcester?... They f**ked us over good and proper didn't they? and they've got a top Rugby side too.... Must Lol at you!

 

[Grendel]

Errmmm You still haven't answered Tonys' question yet!

No we weren't given the half share for free as we were still constructed by a veto from the council and a board of directors at acl who were charging the club £1.3 million rent.

Also the club did invest funds in the project.

I could give you my nice shiny discovery sport for free and then charge you £40,000 for the locking wheel nut.

Tony would shriek "the car was free" - it wasn't was it?

 

[chiefdave]

So we weren't handed a 50% share of the stadium management company then?

Originally the club was supposed to get 50% of the freehold however CCC went back on that and instead the club got 50% of ACL but ACL had to pay £21m to CCC for the lease and CCFC had to pay £1.2m a year in rent.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

No we weren't given the half share for free as we were still constructed by a veto from the council and a board of directors at acl who were charging the club £1.3 million rent.

Also the club did invest funds in the project.

I could give you my nice shiny discovery sport for free and then charge you £40,000 for the locking wheel nut.

Tony would shriek "the car was free" - it wasn't was it?

How much money Coventry City put into building the £116million Ricoh Arena
Former chairman claims club only stumped up £2million - and that was a donation from directors

You were saying?

 

[stupot07]

Why laugh at Worcester?... They f**ked us over good and proper didn't they? and they've got a top Rugby side too.... Must Lol at you!

Worcester are a semi pro club who pulled in c500 attendance at their last match and are probably limited by the fact they have a PL rugby team pulling in 12k fans.

Yes, they did us good and proper, but hardly a comparison between us and wasps.

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[skybluetony176]

No we weren't given the half share for free as we were still constructed by a veto from the council and a board of directors at acl who were charging the club £1.3 million rent.

Also the club did invest funds in the project.

I could give you my nice shiny discovery sport for free and then charge you £40,000 for the locking wheel nut.

Tony would shriek "the car was free" - it wasn't was it?

So we wasn't given a half share of ACL for free? That's a fact is it? Did we have anybody sitting on the board of ACL? Could we have not gone for a sliding scale rental deal or was one never on offer? If ACL was in profit would we have taken any of the profit?

I would actually shriek "thanks for the car, you can keep your locking wheel nut, I'll buy a set of 4 of eBay for £39 instead"

 

[skybluetony176]

Originally the club was supposed to get 50% of the freehold however CCC went back on that and instead the club got 50% of ACL but ACL had to pay £21m to CCC for the lease and CCFC had to pay £1.2m a year in rent.

So Grendull is wrong then?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Worcester are a semi pro club who pulled in c500 attendance at their last match and are probably limited by the fact they have a PL rugby team pulling in 12k fans.

Yes, they did us good and proper, but hardly a comparison between us and wasps.

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Every f**king time you try to twist things in your favour... I played Semi-Pro and we gave Tranmere a hiding. Worcester spanked our arses, being Semi-Pro has f**k all to do with it. If you're good enough...You're good enough.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

So we wasn't given a half share of ACL for free? That's a fact is it? Did we have anybody sitting on the board of ACL? Could we have not gone for a sliding scale rental deal or was one never on offer? If ACL was in profit would we have taken any of the profit?

I would actually shriek "thanks for the car, you can keep your locking wheel nut, I'll buy a set of 4 of eBay for £39 instead"

Lmfao, great reply hahaha.

 

[stupot07]

Every f**king time you try to twist things in your favour... I played Semi-Pro and we gave Tranmere a hiding. Worcester spanked our arses, being Semi-Pro has f**k all to do with it. If you're good enough...You're good enough.

What's that got to do with the size of a club and attendances and more importantly competition for paying customers.

I'm not twisting anything. I made thr point about us no longer being a one club city, you came back with Worcester amongst others.

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[oldskyblue58]

all this is easily solved by revealing the detailed outline plans and how it works. Political embargos seem to be an excuse. Show the plans (not a rehash of Brentford's stadium like CCFC did before) explain the vision, back it up and put pressure on others for a change, carry the fans with you not line them up against

 

[skybluetony176]

all this is easily solved by revealing the detailed outline plans and how it works. Political embargos seem to be an excuse. Show the plans (not a rehash of Brentford's stadium like CCFC did before) explain the vision, back it up and put pressure on others for a change, carry the fans with you not line them up against

Exactly. As I keep saying to Nick. You can't call peoples bluff on a LR article and some casual remarks by TF to the SCG. Show us a vision to believe in. Maybe we can get behind it then and start calling some bluffs.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What's that got to do with the size of a club and attendances and more importantly competition for paying customers.

I'm not twisting anything. I made thr point about us no longer being a one club city, you came back with Worcester amongst others.

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We have always been a two club City.... You tend to forget CRFC!. Who once were a top flight Rugby team.

 

[Grendel]

So Grendull is wrong then?

No Tony I wasn't. I repeat the arrangement of acl was always tying the club up to pay the outstanding loan. You can try and spin whatever you want but the whole purpose of the club was to pay the mortgage.

The comparison was with Swansea. The council absorbed all the costs so there was nothing to pay just equity and value in the company.

Our council and especially acl had very different motives. They never valued the club and saw it as a hinderence to their development plans. I've heard a original senior member say that directly.

Keep spinning away though Tony of it makes you happy,

 

[Frankley]

It took nearly 5 years to reinstate nob! In which time the difference between 36k and approx17-18k were lost

It was significantly less than 5 years wasn't it.

Oh... and I suppose your 'informed theory' accounts for the nationwide decline in football audiences during the same time period.

You are a proper dickhead!

 

[Woz01]

If Wasps coming here means to some that we are not a one club City then we never have been. A variety

We have always been a two club City.... You tend to forget CRFC!. Who once were a top flight Rugby team.

Coventry Bees up to the early 80s attracted crowds of 20,000 at times too. If people are using Wasps or other sports to say we are no longer a one club City then we never have been a one club City.

 

[skybluetony176]

No Tony I wasn't. I repeat the arrangement of acl was always tying the club up to pay the outstanding loan. You can try and spin whatever you want but the whole purpose of the club was to pay the mortgage.

The comparison was with Swansea. The council absorbed all the costs so there was nothing to pay just equity and value in the company.

Our council and especially acl had very different motives. They never valued the club and saw it as a hinderence to their development plans. I've heard a original senior member say that directly.

Keep spinning away though Tony of it makes you happy,

Simple question. Were CCFC given a 50% share in ACL? Yes or No.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Simple question. Were CCFC given a 50% share in ACL? Yes or No.

No, it wasn't a gift Tony. It was a JOINT VENTURE between the club and the council. It wasn't that the council set ACL up and thought "We'll give half to CCFC".

As has been pointed out, it wasn't as if the council gave ACL free reign to do as it pleased. ACL had to pay £21m for a 50 year lease.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

It was significantly less than 5 years wasn't it.

Oh... and I suppose your 'informed theory' accounts for the nationwide decline in football audiences during the same time period.

You are a proper dickhead!

Here you are thick c**t...



In 1981, the controversial decision was taken to convert Highfield Road into England’s first all-seater stadium and 8,000 extra seats were installed at a cost £400,000 reducing the capacity, at a stroke, from 36,500 to 20,600.

This unanimously unpopular decision was intended, amongst other things, to deter hooliganism but instead it alienated the home fans and, with every game all-ticket, it became harder for fans to attend. Attendances dropped as performances on the pitch deteriorated and the failed experiment accelerated Jimmy Hill’s resignation as chairman. The seats were ripped out of the Kop in 1985 and the end partially rebuilt to allow a better view and an increased capacity

Read more at http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...ty-jim-brown-2432398.aspx#jW0jzS8Y20bq8ExM.99
:finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::finger::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar::cigar:

 

[chiefdave]

Political embargos seem to be an excuse.

I buy it, to a certain extent, being an excuse when its just Fisher but why would Jon Sharp not say it was rubbish?
Why don't CCC come out and say we support it 100% and will do everything we can to help? Why don't the CT and SBT get right behind it as well. Said it before, call Fishers bluff. Or are they concerned that if they do someone other than SISU might be shown in a bad light?

 

[albatross]

They only had to raise cash to fund a ridiculous rental arrangement

Swansea council even covered a large proportion of match day costs including using tax payer money to install central heating.

Swansea council would have bent over backwards to support the club - not shaft them all ends up.

So we had to sell to pay a company we owned 50% of. No influence there then! .......and weren't you an advocate of purchasing 50% of the RICOH?

But I suppose the rental on top of all the money we had put in to build the place in the first instance.......

 

[chiefdave]

How much money Coventry City put into building the £116million Ricoh Arena

The amount put in by the club was netted off to the figure Higgs paid however Higgs didn't pay all in cash.
Money spent in some of the early stages, when Richardson was trying to get the project off the ground, never seemed to get counted. I guess an arbitrary day one was picked and costs incurred from there counted.
Richardson would argue that as the company he engaged to run the project took ownership of the land and he, at least according to him, arrange the deal with Tesco, then that money should also count from the clubs side but that's a highly arguable point.
At the end of the day the reality is CCFC, prior to the sale to Higgs, and CCC put in pretty similar amounts. Both ended up with 50% of ACL but one ended up with the freehold and the other paying £1.2m a year rent.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

The amount put in by the club was netted off to the figure Higgs paid however Higgs didn't pay all in cash.
Money spent in some of the early stages, when Richardson was trying to get the project off the ground, never seemed to get counted. I guess an arbitrary day one was picked and costs incurred from there counted.
Richardson would argue that as the company he engaged to run the project took ownership of the land and he, at least according to him, arrange the deal with Tesco, then that money should also count from the clubs side but that's a highly arguable point.
At the end of the day the reality is CCFC, prior to the sale to Higgs, and CCC put in pretty similar amounts. Both ended up with 50% of ACL but one ended up with the freehold and the other paying £1.2m a year rent.

You know what's coming don't you?......Link please

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

The amount put in by the club was netted off to the figure Higgs paid however Higgs didn't pay all in cash.
Money spent in some of the early stages, when Richardson was trying to get the project off the ground, never seemed to get counted. I guess an arbitrary day one was picked and costs incurred from there counted.
Richardson would argue that as the company he engaged to run the project took ownership of the land and he, at least according to him, arrange the deal with Tesco, then that money should also count from the clubs side but that's a highly arguable point.
At the end of the day the reality is CCFC, prior to the sale to Higgs, and CCC put in pretty similar amounts. Both ended up with 50% of ACL but one ended up with the freehold and the other paying £1.2m a year rent.

Here's my link.. Where's yours



http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/how-much-money-coventry-city-12014715

 

[chiefdave]

Here's my link.. Where's yours

Which bit? Most of it is in the clubs accounts or the SBT website.
The company Richardson engaged for the project purchased the land of British Gas, Richardson negotiated the deal with Tesco but the company sold the land to CCC, I think for £20m, and they flipped it to Tesco for £60m.
When ACL was incorporated a net spend of £4.8m on Arena 2000 by CCFC was classed as their investment into ACL.
If you go back through old CCFC accounts you will see a total net investment of £6,808,425 in Arena 2000.
That was sold to Higgs for £6.5m however it was split between writing off existing loans from Higgs to the club, paying back directors loans on condition they reinvested and new money. From memory the new money was around £2m.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Who gets the stadium naming rights the leaseholder - WASPS or the freeholder CCC.?.

Did the club previously get access to all car parking revenue

IMO CCC & possibly Higgs thought they could turn the Ricoh into something special and saw CCFC as an inconvenience but a regular cash cow to pay the bills. SISU proved them wrong regarding their dependency on CCFC by moving to Northampton but this ensured WASPS moved in.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Which bit? Most of it is in the clubs accounts or the SBT website.
The company Richardson engaged for the project purchased the land of British Gas, Richardson negotiated the deal with Tesco but the company sold the land to CCC, I think for £20m, and they flipped it to Tesco for £60m.
When ACL was incorporated a net spend of £4.8m on Arena 2000 by CCFC was classed as their investment into ACL.
If you go back through old CCFC accounts you will see a total net investment of £6,808,425 in Arena 2000.
That was sold to Higgs for £6.5m however it was split between writing off existing loans from Higgs to the club, paying back directors loans on condition they reinvested and new money. From memory the new money was around £2m.

I rest my case!

 

[duffer]

Could this be the modular answer for the new ground, easy to increase OR decrease capacity :meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad:

It's very nice, but the pitch is a bit bobbly. Probably better for rugby.

 

[chiefdave]

I rest my case!

Seeing as you can't use google:

19th December Alan Edward Higgs Charity acquires 50% of ACL from CCFC ltd. Shares owned by Football Investors Limited, which becomes a wholly owned subsidiary of the Charity. Cost to Charity £6,523,184 inc. fees. Payment made £2m cash £2.5m waiver of loan and £2m to two directors who had outstanding loans to FIL who then re loaned the money to CCFC ltd. CCFC Ltd acquires option to purchase shares back from the Charity.