Otis
Well-Known Member
Think that is key. There has to be the will and the political backing.
I fear there will be neither.
I fear there will be neither.
Gynnsthetonic
Well-Known Member
A 25000 seater stadium is ample for us, even it the top flight with 4000 away fans we averaged around 19000
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
West Bromwich West Bromwich shown within the West Midlands
Population 75,405 (Town) 136,940 (Urban Sub-Area)
Population 75,405 (Town) 136,940 (Urban Sub-Area)
Astute
Well-Known Member
You said that CCFC spent much more than has been stated on the Ricoh build. But it is of greater importance to find out about the extortionate final cost of building the Ricoh. Agreed?
I take it that you now have looked and see that it wasn't. So now do you agree that it would be best to find out where the money went that came from CCFC? There is a missing 5m somewhere. If we could find out where it went we might be able to recover some of it.
Astute
Well-Known Member
25,000 would be sufficient. But it seems that CRFC want about half this. And the land and surrounding area suggests that it would fit and not 25,000. 12,500 would not have been big enough in the division that we are in now. So what would it be like when we get promotion? There is a decent chance that we would get promoted before it is built (that is if it does get built). So we would need to extend before it is finished or be left with a stadium where we turn away paying customers about every game.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yep, indeed.
Let's say 4 years. Unless we have zero ambition at all you would hope we would be in with a chance of promotion during that time and maybe achieve such.
Could you imagine playing the likes of Villa or Leeds or Wolves or Birmingham or Newcastle with such a small capacity.
If we were top of the table in League One we would easily surpass 15,000 for some games, including the likes of Sheffield Utd, Bolton and Bradford.
Doesn't bode well at all right from the start if Cov are already saying they don't want a very big stadium and space is really tight anyway.
I think the Butts should go ahead, but very much with Cov in mind. A nice little 10,000 seater stadium that could incorporate Cov and Cov Bears and Coventry United.
Up the profile of Cov and bring them to a closer level with Wasps.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Sandwell has the similar population as Coventry, which is probably a more accurate reflection of its main catchment area.
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Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
Season tickets would be a premium price like Bournemouth I should imagine the fans would have to commit irrelevant of the crap that could be served up!
colin101
Well-Known Member
I live near Sandwell and believe me the catchment area serves West Brom, Wolves, Villa and Walsall fans,so not a one team town
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it does, just like there are fans of other clubs in Coventry, and im sure theres a fair few West Brom fans from brum, walsall and wolverhampton. In fact theres a few west Brom and villa tops (as well as the usual suspects) at the SBiTC Saturday club at the higgs, in fact out of 20 kids, theres usually only 2-3 wearing cov tops
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is a missing £5 million as I've said - I think it's in the numbers anyway. A lot of debt incurred with contracts to original builders who pulled out when the club couldn't afford to carry on. This liability I assume was tied up in the debt of arena 2001 was was swallowed up by the council. I assume the only reason the £2 million is shown separately is that it's the initial purchase of share capital.
I'm sure there is far more conspiracies to look at if you want to.
The cost of the stadium is huge - compare it to the millennium stadium. It cost the same and was constructed by the same builders I believe.
Also ask why the loan was ever made rather than give a £21 loan to the company rather than the £1.9 million annual payment given the club was saddled with that in rent anyway. Also the matter of course of the short term lease.
colin101
Well-Known Member
Understand, however the Sandwell area is a real melting pot of supporters from the 4 teams, and I am not talking kids.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Objectively, a small ground that sells out constantly could be the best thing for our fan base. As you mention, it'd force people to buy season tickets, there'd be an actual dmand for tickets. At the moment it's too easy to leave buying them until the last minute.
A small ground could actually grow our fanbase, as a game would become an event.
However, this also has been done before, and ain't Jon Sharp agreeing with Tim Fisher
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Objectively, a small ground that sells out constantly could be the best thing for our fan base. As you mention, it'd force people to buy season tickets, there'd be an actual dmand for tickets. At the moment it's too easy to leave buying them until the last minute.
A small ground could actually grow our fanbase, as a game would become an event.
However, this also has been done before, and ain't Jon Sharp agreeing with Tim Fisher
I can see your point but, if demand says we need a bigger capacity than BPA can give us either now or in the future, we'd be consigning ourself to a life of no forward movement. We would also be looking at losing a fan base far greater, for ever.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It's what I'd genuinely like to know.
If I were a CRFC fan I'd be asking questions. On the one hand, I suspect CRFC are at a stage where, with Wasps in the city, they have to try and expand to a large degree, or they'll be confined to history soon enough. So to a degree, is the football club partnership a bit of shit-or-bust?
If I were a CRFC fan however, I'd also be wanting to make sure this is no land deal being made, to compensate the owner for throwing his cash fruitlessly away, given Wasps have now rocked up. I'd definitely want to ensure that CRFC were protected.
And in a wider sense, it's demonstrating that things do not happen easily without the local authority on board. It's more interesting to find Sharp speaking out than SISU, as SISU fall out with, well... everybody, so their view is tarnished. For Sharp to speak out suggests more than ever that the loval authority have nailed themselves to a Wasps mast at the expense of the heritage teams already about.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I don't think it does get missed.
He seems to be agreeing with Fisher on some aspects, but Fisher wants a 25,000 seater stadium and Sharp clearly does not.
There they do not agree at all.
Nick
Administrator
Pretty sure it would have been discussed wouldn't it?
I mean the overall situation, sharp has always been up for working with ccfc hasn't he?
He's now saying the situation was as Fisher said, so would be interesting to know what's going on with it.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well your guess is as good as mine.
Think the main problem though is, Nick, Sisu have no intention of building a new stadium, so I think it is all just talk and bluster.
They have to keep perpetuating the new stadium line, otherwise they are admitting it is the Ricoh or bust.
Nick
Administrator
You seem very keen to just write it off straight away without looking into what could be going on
I don't think Sharp is stupid, so why is he getting in on the talk and bluster which could potentially make him look silly.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What's reflective of our catchment area?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Not 'keen' to write it off at all! Why would I be?You seem very keen to just write it off straight away without looking into what could be going on
I don't think Sharp is stupid, so why is he getting in on the talk and bluster which could potentially make him look silly.
Have Sisu shown any intent whatsoever to build a new stadium? Anything at all past a few words and sound bites?
There has been nothing at all to suggest any intent whatsoever on Sisu's part to obtain a new stadium for us.
Talk is cheap and this has been dragging on and on for years. Not keen to write it off, but it is very easy to come to that conclusion that it should be written off the same as with every new stadium comment they have ever made.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I believe he was always talking less with the potential to expand. Yet when it was apparently getting stopped by a 'political embargo' he was talking 25k
For me it would have to be 25k from the off. Or planning permission already agreed for 25k before you build any less.
I believe if less is built it will never expand
Otis
Well-Known Member
It was Sharp I believe who said CCFC would be looking at 25,000.
colin101
Well-Known Member
Serious questions:
What do Fishers investors get out of paying for and building the Stadium, flats and retail units?,
Who will the site belong to, CCFC, CRFC, both or the investors?,
If the lease belongs to Sharp and outside investors pay to build the complex why would they be willing to give CCFC any of the proceeds of their resources?
Surely at the end of the day we (CCFC) would still be tenants or am I missing something?
What do Fishers investors get out of paying for and building the Stadium, flats and retail units?,
Who will the site belong to, CCFC, CRFC, both or the investors?,
If the lease belongs to Sharp and outside investors pay to build the complex why would they be willing to give CCFC any of the proceeds of their resources?
Surely at the end of the day we (CCFC) would still be tenants or am I missing something?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Probably around the same size as West Brom's, its probably not as big as it should be.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Mate the whole population of Sandwell is about the same size of Coventry.
Then we have a lot of Warwickshire in our catchment area for fan base as well. (Nuneaton, Kenilworth, Leamington, Warwick, Rugby)
If West Brom are pulling in 22-24k in the Prem.
We would need 25k minimum
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
CCFC would still be tenants but a lot of other people would make some good money.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Do you not think they people from Wolverhampton, Walsall and Birmingham, etc will support West Brom? Or are there invisible walls in Sandwell that we don't have in Coventry?
Well you learn something new every day.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I can't see any advantage from Sharp or CRFC's point of view for him to be making things up to make Fisher or SISU look better.
If there was a demand for a much larger stadium in the future that would mean the club was doing well. Wouldn't it then follow that an owner or potential owner would be prepared to invest in a new, larger, stadium. Nobody is saying if we move to the Butts that's it for the next 100 years.
This is exactly why I think everyone (fans, CCC, SBT, CT) should get behind this and push for full details. We don't at the moment know what, if anything, they have discussed or agreed on. For example and initial 20K that can easily rise to 25K is a very different prospect to 15K and that's it.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Whilst I don't believe a new stadium will ever materialise, I would rather keep an open mind until any such proposal and financial case for a new stadium vs staying at the Ricoh is made. We're going to be at the Ricoh for the short - medium term regardless.
Blindly ignoring any other possible options and signing a long term matchday only, little access to revenue deal would be a mistake. We've been hampered in part for the last decade by such deal, why would we want to blindly agree to stay in it long term without seriously considering other options first?
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