Jon Sharp - BPA (23 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Kid]

I can't see any advantage from Sharp or CRFC's point of view for him to be making things up to make Fisher or SISU look better.

If there was a demand for a much larger stadium in the future that would mean the club was doing well. Wouldn't it then follow that an owner or potential owner would be prepared to invest in a new, larger, stadium. Nobody is saying if we move to the Butts that's it for the next 100 years.

This is exactly why I think everyone (fans, CCC, SBT, CT) should get behind this and push for full details. We don't at the moment know what, if anything, they have discussed or agreed on. For example and initial 20K that can easily rise to 25K is a very different prospect to 15K and that's it.

And which "Bigger Stadium" within the Coventry Boundary would that be then Dave? Seeing as when I said CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC but was for all intents and purposes "Laughed at"

 

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[chiefdave]

And which "Bigger Stadium" within the Coventry Boundary would that be then Dave? Seeing as when I said CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC but was for all intents and purposes "Laughed at"

CCC, as it is now, will not bend over backwards to help CCFC but that doesn't mean things may change in the future. If CCFC are doing well and the Butts was sold out every week I would hope there would be pressure on the council to assist in any new stadium project.

 

[Captain Dart]

You said that CCFC spent much more than has been stated on the Ricoh build. But it is of greater importance to find out about the extortionate final cost of building the Ricoh. Agreed?

I take it that you now have looked and see that it wasn't. So now do you agree that it would be best to find out where the money went that came from CCFC? There is a missing 5m somewhere. If we could find out where it went we might be able to recover some of it.

Some figures were in Simon Gilbert's book. The information comes from John McGuigan, former director of city development at Coventry City Council.

He said the £113M was for all the development including the shopping park.

The Arena, including hotel, hall & casino was £64M, the estimated the stadium bowl component to be about £39M of that.

 

[dongonzalos]

Do you not think they people from Wolverhampton, Walsall and Birmingham, etc will support West Brom? Or are there invisible walls in Sandwell that we don't have in Coventry?

Well you learn something new every day.

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So you think West Brom have a bigger catchment area than us?

Yes people from those area will just as people in Sandwell will support Wolves, Birmingham and Villa.

 

[dongonzalos]

I can't see any advantage from Sharp or CRFC's point of view for him to be making things up to make Fisher or SISU look better.

If there was a demand for a much larger stadium in the future that would mean the club was doing well. Wouldn't it then follow that an owner or potential owner would be prepared to invest in a new, larger, stadium. Nobody is saying if we move to the Butts that's it for the next 100 years.

This is exactly why I think everyone (fans, CCC, SBT, CT) should get behind this and push for full details. We don't at the moment know what, if anything, they have discussed or agreed on. For example and initial 20K that can easily rise to 25K is a very different prospect to 15K and that's it.

I am not too sure Mr Fisher wants 25k. He was always saying smaller with the 'potential' to rise to 25k.

Mr Sharpe definitely doesn't.

The only time Mr Fisher has been positively talking about 25k was when he was saying it is getting blocked

 

[stupot07]

So you think West Brom have a bigger catchment area than us?

Yes people from those area will just as people in Sandwell will support Wolves, Birmingham and Villa.

No I think their catchment area is around the same size.

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[Sky Blue Kid]

CCC, as it is now, will not bend over backwards to help CCFC but that doesn't mean things may change in the future. If CCFC are doing well and the Butts was sold out every week I would hope there would be pressure on the council to assist in any new stadium project.

Are you actually reading what I've said?.... "I actually said just over a week ago" if SISU fooked off CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC... Obviously you weren't looking! God knows how long SISU will hang on!

 

[dongonzalos]

No I think their catchment area is around the same size.

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No chance we have far bigger population to pick for and our competition for that catchment is

Warwick
Nuneaton Town
Kenilworth Wardens
Coventry United / Spinx
Leamington Town
Hinckley ( a lot of which Leicester will now have )
Athertone FC.
Rugby FC.

 

[chiefdave]

Are you actually reading what I've said?.... "I actually said just over a week ago" if SISU fooked off CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC... Obviously you weren't looking! God knows how long SISU will hang on!

May come as a surprise to you but I don't keep a record of all your past posts so if you just post 'when I said CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC' I assume thats what you said.
Don't think its as simple as SISU leaving through. Look back before SISU arrived and the way the council treated the club, or even look at how we ended up with SISU. Doesn't indicate to me that SISU leaving would lead to an immediate change.

 

[stupot07]

No chance we have far bigger population to pick for and our competition for that catchment is

Warwick
Nuneaton Town
Kenilworth Wardens
Coventry United / Spinx
Leamington Town
Hinckley ( a lot of which Leicester will now have )
Athertone FC.
Rugby FC.

A lot of rugby will support Leicester
A lot of nuneaton support villa or Leicester as well as cov,
A lot of atherstone and north Warwickshire support villa, blues, west brom

Then we're competing with wasps, Leicester tigers, and south Warwickshire Northampton saints, Worcester, Northampton town, Mk Dons.

Hell, Leicester city have been doing work in cov schools.

Those areas you listed aren't the sole property of ccfc.

**in addition to man united, Liverpool, Chelsea, arsenal, etc, etc.

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[Captain Dart]

I don't think it does get missed.

He seems to be agreeing with Fisher on some aspects, but Fisher wants a 25,000 seater stadium and Sharp clearly does not.

There they do not agree at all.

Not what he said, his initial plan was 12,000 base on Rotherham's stadium.

Note the Butts had planning permission for a stadium about that size.

I believe as far as SISU are concerned 12K is good enough because it gives them an exit strategy, that is all they're after, they are not bothered about the club after that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Are you actually reading what I've said?.... "I actually said just over a week ago" if SISU fooked off CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC... Obviously you weren't looking! God knows how long SISU will hang on!

But Sharp's quote goes against that, as it suggests there are obstacles for the rugby club, too.

 

[Otis]

Not what he said, his initial plan was 12,000 base on Rotherham's stadium.

Note the Butts had planning permission for a stadium about that size.

I believe as far as SISU are concerned 12K is good enough because it gives them an exit strategy, that is all they're after, they are not bothered about the club after that.

Why was Sharp saying a 25,000 seater for Coventry City? Was that just a guesstimate on his behalf?

 

[stupot07]

But Sharp's quote goes against that, as it suggests there are obstacles for the rugby club, too.

Yep, plus i don't think the council would bend over backwards to help us regardless of whether sisu are here or not. They want us at the Ricoh. It wouldn't look good on the council, if we were (pecieved) forced to move out of the stadium that was built for us because they sold the Ricoh to an out of town franchise.

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[Deleted member 5849]

Yep, plus i don't think the council would bend over backwards to help us regardless of whether sisu are here or not. They want us at the Ricoh. It wouldn't look good on the council, if we were (pecieved) forced to move out of the stadium that was built for us because they sold the Ricoh to an out of town franchise.

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Yeah in much the same way as it suited the political will of the time to drive the Ricoh project to conclusion (reclaiming HR would have been the pragmatic answer for the football club) now you get the strong sense that political will is to ensure the Ricoh ties clubs to it.

It's entirely understandable, btw, from a political viewpoint given what's gone on, but it should still be noted as far as I'm concerned, that much as previously (and, indeed, much as per our owners' actions) the drive for a solution that suits certain parties (in this instance, the political solution) isn't automatically the best solution for our club.

 

[colin101]

No I think their catchment area is around the same size.

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Stu you are right however from West Brom Centre the Villa ground is 5.5 miles, Walsall ground is 4.7 miles and Wolves ground is 9.6 miles, therefore these are catchments for the fans of these local clubs

 

[Captain Dart]

Why was Sharp saying a 25,000 seater for Coventry City? Was that just a guesstimate on his behalf?

He never said that, he said ...

- Mr Sharp said The Butts could be expanded to 25,000 seats, but they would be looking at around 15,000 seats to allow further development of the site - which is just under eight acres in size.

 

[Grendel]

He never said that, he said ...

- Mr Sharp said The Butts could be expanded to 25,000 seats, but they would be looking at around 15,000 seats to allow further development of the site - which is just under eight acres in size.

When did you last go to a CCFC game?

 

[clint van damme]

Are you actually reading what I've said?.... "I actually said just over a week ago" if SISU fooked off CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC... Obviously you weren't looking! God knows how long SISU will hang on!

you have a lot more faith in CCC than I do SBK.

Hopefully sisu aren't here much longer so we'll find out whether they'll help the club or not.

 

[Astute]

I don't think there is a missing £5 million as I've said - I think it's in the numbers anyway.

Congratulations. You have admitted that you don't know but it is what you think. But you still don't want any questions asked. Nobody knows. That is why others as well as myself have been asking the question.

I know one thing for sure. If there was something similar to do with CCC you would be asking for a full enquiry and would have found them guilty already.

 

[Astute]

The cost of the stadium is huge - compare it to the millennium stadium. It cost the same and was constructed by the same builders I believe.

The Millennium stadium cost twice the amount of the Ricoh Arena to construct.

 

[Astute]

He said the £113M was for all the development including the shopping park.

Total cost for the land was £43m. Total cost of the construction was £65m including £7m for the fitting out of the stadium.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

But Sharp's quote goes against that, as it suggests there are obstacles for the rugby club, too.

Would they be the "Obstacles" that Millerchip put in the way? or ones that CCC "Tried" to put in the way?

 

[dongonzalos]

A lot of rugby will support Leicester
A lot of nuneaton support villa or Leicester as well as cov,
A lot of atherstone and north Warwickshire support villa, blues, west brom

Then we're competing with wasps, Leicester tigers, and south Warwickshire Northampton saints, Worcester, Northampton town, Mk Dons.

Hell, Leicester city have been doing work in cov schools.

Those areas you listed aren't the sole property of ccfc.

**in addition to man united, Liverpool, Chelsea, arsenal, etc, etc.

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Of course they are not the sole property of CCFC.
I would disagree that a 'lot' of Nuneaton support Villa and that a 'lot' of Warwickshire support Villa and Blues.
A relatively small proportion will.
West Brom have Wolves, Villa, Blues and Walsall as comparative local competition. We both have the top Prem teams for competition.

We have much smaller sides for competition.
We also have Leicester and Villa depending on the location of the extremities of Warwickshire.

So we have a larger City population compared to West Brom town (Approx 309k verses 72K.)

We have a far bigger wider catchment area compared to West Brom population wise. A large portion Warwickshire compared to Sandwell.
We have far less significant competition than West Brom.

On this one Stu you are way off the mark by a country mile.

If West Brom with their catchment are pulling I 22-24 K in the Prem then trust me the minimum we would need is 25k

 

[stupot07]

Of course they are not the sole property of CCFC.
I would disagree that a 'lot' of Nuneaton support Villa and that a 'lot' of Warwickshire support Villa and Blues.
A relatively small proportion will.
West Brom have Wolves, Villa, Blues and Walsall as comparative local competition. We both have the top Prem teams for competition.

We have much smaller sides for competition.
We also have Leicester and Villa depending on the location of the extremities of Warwickshire.

So we have a larger City population compared to West Brom town (Approx 309k verses 72K.)

We have a far bigger wider catchment area compared to West Brom population wise. A large portion Warwickshire compared to Sandwell.
We have far less significant competition than West Brom.

On this one Stu you are way off the mark by a country mile.

If West Brom with their catchment are pulling I 22-24 K in the Prem then trust me the minimum we would need is 25k

What do you base your disagreement about a lot of nuneaton and north Warwickshire people supporting villla and other west midlands club as well as city? I know quite a few villa fans and villa season ticket holders who live in nuneaton.

Even someone who lives in Sandwell agrees that the whole Birmingham/ Black Country clubs catchments overlap. If you want to talk numbers then then I'm sure West Brom will pull fans from from around the west midlands.
Sandwell 320k,
Wolverhampton 250k
Dudley 320k
Walsall 275k
Birmingham 1.1m
I imagine they also pull from Shropshire (470k) and Worcestershire (566k) too.

Villa and blues also pull from Solihull and Warwickshire.

We don't have significantly less competition, we also compete with villa, blues, Leicester, Northampton and mk dons (south Warwickshire ), as well asl wasps, Northampton saints, Leicester Tigers, Worcester RFC, Blaze as well as all those non league clubs.

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[Sky Blue Kid]

May come as a surprise to you but I don't keep a record of all your past posts so if you just post 'when I said CCC would "Bend over backwards" to help CCFC' I assume thats what you said.
Don't think its as simple as SISU leaving through. Look back before SISU arrived and the way the council treated the club, or even look at how we ended up with SISU. Doesn't indicate to me that SISU leaving would lead to an immediate change.

Really strange that!... You and a couple of others are usually on to my posts quicker than a whores Pimp!

 

[Grendel]

Congratulations. You have admitted that you don't know but it is what you think. But you still don't want any questions asked. Nobody knows. That is why others as well as myself have been asking the question.

I know one thing for sure. If there was something similar to do with CCC you would be asking for a full enquiry and would have found them guilty already.

But you talk about this as if it's something new. It's been in the public domain for years. The sale of invested assets to Higgs was £6.5 million and everyone knows that.

 

[chiefdave]

But you talk about this as if it's something new. It's been in the public domain for years. The sale of invested assets to Higgs was £6.5 million and everyone knows that.

Not sure why this is suddenly being made out to be so complicated or new information. Its been sat on the Sky Blues Trust website since 2014 and it was available in the various accounts prior to that.
http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index.php/club-information/timeline/357-ricoh-arena-timeline?showall=

 

[Astute]

But you talk about this as if it's something new. It's been in the public domain for years. The sale of invested assets to Higgs was £6.5 million and everyone knows that.

There was no sale to Higgs. They had already loaned our club money. They loaned our club more money and had the ACL share as security. And as you know we never gave the money back.

Are you really saying that you don't have a clue what went on at our club but make out as you know everything?

 

[Astute]

Not sure why this is suddenly being made out to be so complicated or new information. Its been sat on the Sky Blues Trust website since 2014 and it was available in the various accounts prior to that.
http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index.php/club-information/timeline/357-ricoh-arena-timeline?showall=

My question is where did the money go. It didn't go on building the Ricoh. And the same link that keeps getting posted doesn't say.

 

[Astute]

But you talk about this as if it's something new. It's been in the public domain for years. The sale of invested assets to Higgs was £6.5 million and everyone knows that.

And what about you trying to say that the construction cost of the millennium stadium cost the same as the Ricoh?

 

[Grendel]

And what about you trying to say that the construction cost of the millennium stadium cost the same as the Ricoh?

Well i googled the cost and it said £121 million.

 

[chiefdave]

There was no sale to Higgs. They had already loaned our club money. They loaned our club more money and had the ACL share as security. And as you know we never gave the money back.

Incorrect. Football Investors Limited (a company formed in 2001 by CCFC) purchased 50% of Arena Coventry Limited for £2m. That will be the money shown in the construction report as that would have been paid to the freeholder. That is also the loan from Derek Higgs, Robinson and McGinnity which was provided interest free.

Higgs Charity subsequently purchased 50% of ACL from CCFC by purchasing Football Investors Limited. Higgs paid £6.5m made up of £2m new money, £2.5m loan write off and £2m to repay directors loans (i.e.: the Higgs, Robinson, McGinnity loan) on the condition it was then loaded to CCFC.

Despite the way the payment was made as far as the accounts are concerned companies within the CCFC group had made a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Ricoh at that point. A payment of £6.5m was received and the remaining £308,425 written off.

 

[chiefdave]

My question is where did the money go. It didn't go on building the Ricoh. And the same link that keeps getting posted doesn't say.

So you accept that £6,808,425 was put in but don't know what it was spent on? Don't really see why that matters if you accept the money was put in.

 

[Astute]

So you accept that £6,808,425 was put in but don't know what it was spent on? Don't really see why that matters if you accept the money was put in.

No I don't accept it was put in. It was spent somewhere maybe but it wasn't all put into the Ricoh build.