Jon Sharp - BPA (23 Viewers)

[Astute]

Incorrect. Football Investors Limited (a company formed in 2001 by CCFC) purchased 50% of Arena Coventry Limited for £2m. That will be the money shown in the construction report as that would have been paid to the freeholder. That is also the loan from Derek Higgs, Robinson and McGinnity which was provided interest free.

Higgs Charity subsequently purchased 50% of ACL from CCFC by purchasing Football Investors Limited. Higgs paid £6.5m made up of £2m new money, £2.5m loan write off and £2m to repay directors loans (i.e.: the Higgs, Robinson, McGinnity loan) on the condition it was then loaded to CCFC.

Despite the way the payment was made as far as the accounts are concerned companies within the CCFC group had made a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Ricoh at that point. A payment of £6.5m was received and the remaining £308,425 written off.

Subsequently became theirs yes. But not all correct.

 

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[Astute]

Well i googled the cost and it said £121 million.

The construction cost of the Millennium stadium was £121m. The construction cost of the Ricoh was £65,822,000. This included £7m to be fitted out and also other things like work to the railway.

 

[chiefdave]

No I don't accept it was put in. It was spent somewhere maybe but it wasn't all put into the Ricoh build.

So you think the accounts are fraudulent and Higgs conspired with this, or at the very least were unable to notice what you have, when they made a purchase using a price based on the figures contained in those fraudulent accounts?

Subsequently became theirs yes. But not all correct.

Which part(s) do you believe to be incorrect?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No they don't - this has been in the public domain for 14 years. It's hardly new is it. I'd have thought the greater interest is the extortionate cost vs other stadiums.

Do you mean that our owner (s) at the time were scheming to become outgoing owners negotiated on the club's behalf and agreed to extortionate costs for the club?
Why on earth would they do that?

Which I guess brings us back to the original comment about where did all the money go?

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Astute]

So you think the accounts are fraudulent and Higgs conspired with this, or at the very least were unable to notice what you have, when they made a purchase using a price based on the figures contained in those fraudulent accounts?

Which part(s) do you believe to be incorrect?

So where does it say where the money went? Why don't you jump on CCC for saying only less than £1.8m came from CCFC?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

A 25000 seater stadium is ample for us, even it the top flight with 4000 away fans we averaged around 19000

You will get shot by some on this forum with comments like that...how dare you suggest we are not a BIG club!

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

West Bromwich West Bromwich shown within the West Midlands
Population 75,405 (Town) 136,940 (Urban Sub-Area)

Get real dongo...its in Birmingham ffs!

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

25,000 would be sufficient. But it seems that CRFC want about half this. And the land and surrounding area suggests that it would fit and not 25,000. 12,500 would not have been big enough in the division that we are in now. So what would it be like when we get promotion? There is a decent chance that we would get promoted before it is built (that is if it does get built). So we would need to extend before it is finished or be left with a stadium where we turn away paying customers about every game.

That is how SISU would probably want it. Charge an avg £100 for the 'Real Fans' rather than £40 with loads more overhead in a bigger venue...profitability see?

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[chiefdave]

So where does it say where the money went? Why don't you jump on CCC for saying only less than £1.8m came from CCFC?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03732876/filing-history
What is there to jump on CCC for? They are not claiming the £1.8m shown in the construction completion report is the only money CCFC ever put in to a new ground project.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'm sure it does, just like there are fans of other clubs in Coventry, and im sure theres a fair few West Brom fans from brum, walsall and wolverhampton. In fact theres a few west Brom and villa tops (as well as the usual suspects) at the SBiTC Saturday club at the higgs, in fact out of 20 kids, theres usually only 2-3 wearing cov tops

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

To all intent & purpose it is at least as much a part of the 2million or so population of 'Greater' Birmingham as Enfield is a part of London!
They have a much greater catchment population compared to Coventry...but only really face a similar competition for them overall

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No chance we have far bigger population to pick for and our competition for that catchment is

Warwick
Nuneaton Town
Kenilworth Wardens
Coventry United / Spinx
Leamington Town
Hinckley ( a lot of which Leicester will now have )
Athertone FC.
Rugby FC.

But like Walsall & possibly West Brom - for ACTIVE supporters of football within its realistic catchment area...Coventry probably has as many ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Vile, Blues, Baggies, Leicester fans as it does ACTIVE Coventry fans. Just overall differing proportions.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Grendel]

The construction cost of the Millennium stadium was £121m. The construction cost of the Ricoh was £65,822,000. This included £7m to be fitted out and also other things like work to the railway.

So the cost of regeneration, levelling of the land, plans etc. were in addition to the £121 million? Really? I am struggling to find the information of total cost - can you provide a link so I can see what you are seeing please?

 

[Grendel]

So you think the accounts are fraudulent and Higgs conspired with this, or at the very least were unable to notice what you have, when they made a purchase using a price based on the figures contained in those fraudulent accounts?

Which part(s) do you believe to be incorrect?

I was thinking this. Astute is effectively implying that PWKH and Higgs conspired to commit a fraudulent act. This is the only conclusion I can draw from his contribution on this thread. That, or they were duped. Either way he should tread very carefully with such accusations.

 

[olderskyblue]

So you think the accounts are fraudulent

Well, they were in a bit of a mess a good few years ago. Tim told us that..... :-;

 

[Otis]

So, in conclusion, Jon Sharp and the Butts ..........

 

[Astute]

So the cost of regeneration, levelling of the land, plans etc. were in addition to the £121 million? Really? I am struggling to find the information of total cost - can you provide a link so I can see what you are seeing please?

Twisting words again I see. Why is it that some people want to know everything about Wasps, CCC and Higgs but are not interested in discrepancies when it is CCFC. Especially from the days of Richardson.

You said that the Millennium stadium cost the same to construct as the Ricoh. And you wanted to know why as it was the same company that built both. Now you want to use land decontamination and other things that were dealt with by others.

 

[Astute]

I was thinking this. Astute is effectively implying that PWKH and Higgs conspired to commit a fraudulent act. This is the only conclusion I can draw from his contribution on this thread. That, or they were duped. Either way he should tread very carefully with such accusations.

You are saying that CCFC put 6.8m into building the Ricoh. CCC are saying that it was under 1.8m. This is the only conclusion that I can draw from your contribution to this thread....other than trying to say that the builders ripped us off. You should tread very carefully with such accusations.

 

[Grendel]

You are saying that CCFC put 6.8m into building the Ricoh. CCC are saying that it was under 1.8m. This is the only conclusion that I can draw from your contribution to this thread....other than trying to say that the builders ripped us off. You should tread very carefully with such accusations.

No accounts filed at companies house confirm the £6.8 million.

The construction report itemised the share capital separately.

 

[Astute]

No accounts filed at companies house confirm the £6.8 million.

The construction report itemised the share capital separately.

And itemised where all of the money came from. And it stated less than 1.8m from CCFC. So why don't you come away from your keyboard and go to CCC and ask them where the missing money from CCFC went?

 

[Grendel]

And itemised where all of the money came from. And it stated less than 1.8m from CCFC. So why don't you come away from your keyboard and go to CCC and ask them where the missing money from CCFC went?

The amount was sold to Higgs. If you think they were involved with something dodgy e mail pwkh.

Good luck.

 

[skybluetony176]

No accounts filed at companies house confirm the £6.8 million.

The construction report itemised the share capital separately.

You mean the construction report that (and I quote) "isn't a legal document it's a construction report - what makes you believe what you are looking at has any legal credibility"?

Funny how when it's suits your argument it's chapter and verse and when it doesn't it has no credibility.

There's that good old Grendull duality again.

 

[Astute]

Incorrect. Football Investors Limited (a company formed in 2001 by CCFC) purchased 50% of Arena Coventry Limited for £2m. That will be the money shown in the construction report as that would have been paid to the freeholder. That is also the loan from Derek Higgs, Robinson and McGinnity which was provided interest free.

Higgs Charity subsequently purchased 50% of ACL from CCFC by purchasing Football Investors Limited. Higgs paid £6.5m made up of £2m new money, £2.5m loan write off and £2m to repay directors loans (i.e.: the Higgs, Robinson, McGinnity loan) on the condition it was then loaded to CCFC.

Despite the way the payment was made as far as the accounts are concerned companies within the CCFC group had made a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Ricoh at that point. A payment of £6.5m was received and the remaining £308,425 written off.

Oh well so are you accusing CCC of fraudulently advising the cabinet of who paid for what? Whatever Higgs paid CCFC didn't pay as they never got their money back. But here is the list yet again.

Council equity investment 10m
Sale of land Tesco (cash) 42.420m
Decontamination Tesco 17m
Interest earned 985k
Hotel premium 485k
Residual land 5m
Prudential borrowing 21m
Surplus on rent 248k
ERDF 4.374m
Section 106 64k
AWM direct payments for land 4.8m
Isle of Capri 5.9m
CCFC 1.758m
Net corporate interests 610k
Additional Yorkshire Bank borrowing 1.1m
Total funding 115,719,000

 

[Grendel]

You mean the construction report that (and I quote) "isn't a legal document it's a construction report - what makes you believe what you are looking at has any legal credibility"?

Funny how when it's suits your argument it's chapter and verse and when it doesn't it has no credibility.

There's that good old Grendull duality again.

Correct it doesn't. That was reponding to Astutes comment the figures had to be accurate a "sporting clubs don't" - a bizarre statement when it's accounts filed at companies house.

Good to see the posee had arrived though to help him outs

Shame for him it'd the equivalent of the Rumpo Kid from carry on cowboy.

 

[Grendel]

Oh well so are you accusing CCC of fraudulently advising the cabinet of who paid for what? Whatever Higgs paid CCFC didn't pay as they never got their money back. But here is the list yet again.

Council equity investment 10m
Sale of land Tesco (cash) 42.420m
Decontamination Tesco 17m
Interest earned 985k
Hotel premium 485k
Residual land 5m
Prudential borrowing 21m
Surplus on rent 248k
ERDF 4.374m
Section 106 64k
AWM direct payments for land 4.8m
Isle of Capri 5.9m
CCFC 1.758m
Net corporate interests 610k
Additional Yorkshire Bank borrowing 1.1m
Total funding 115,719,000

How much did Higgs pay? Also does it specify which organisation paid for the decontamination?

 

[Astute]

How much did Higgs pay? Also does it specify which organisation paid for the decontamination?

Nothing. Unless they paid the CCFC part as we were skint and it was part of the loan. Meaning CCFC paid nothing as Higgs never got back what they loaned back off CCFC.

And as you know Tescos paid for the decontamination. Cost them 17m. Try reading the funding I listed properly.

 

[Astute]

Correct it doesn't. That was reponding to Astutes comment the figures had to be accurate a "sporting clubs don't" - a bizarre statement when it's accounts filed at companies house.

Good to see the posee had arrived though to help him outs

Shame for him it'd the equivalent of the Rumpo Kid from carry on cowboy.

Don't need help to show that you either don't have a clue or are just coming out with your usual diatribe.

 

[Grendel]

Don't need help to show that you either don't have a clue or are just coming out with your usual diatribe.

Says the person who all along who stated that "we all know what ccfc paid" and when Chief Dave stated the correct figure you accused him of "plucking figures from the air" and wasn't even aware it referred to the amount that Higgs ultimately took on from the club.

 

[Grendel]

Nothing. Unless they paid the CCFC part as we were skint and it was part of the loan. Meaning CCFC paid nothing as Higgs never got back what they loaned back off CCFC.

And as you know Tescos paid for the decontamination. Cost them 17m. Try reading the funding I listed properly.

So if Higgs didn't pay anything who purchased the share capital then?

 

[Astute]

Says the person who all along who stated that "we all know what ccfc paid" and when Chief Dave stated the correct figure you accused him of "plucking figures from the air" and wasn't even aware it referred to the amount that Higgs ultimately took on from the club.

What correct figure?

Must be the one that you can't say what it was for or spent on.

 

[Astute]

So if Higgs didn't pay anything who purchased the share capital then?

Nobody.

CCFC were given it for the 1.758m and loaned 6.5m in total IIRC off Higgs. Remember seeing something about 6.8m but was a long time ago so can't remember. The share was put up as security. As we all know SISU took over and refused to even negotiate. So as the money didn't get repaid it went to Higgs in leu of payment.

So you can twist it as much as you want. Higgs didn't buy it. They didn't even want it. But they did want their money back.

 

[hill83]

What's everyone's favourite crisps though?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What's everyone's favourite crisps though?

Ones that don't repeat on me.

 

[Otis]

I say start a campaign to bring back hedgehog crisps!

Whoever's not with me is against me!

 

[Otis]

Oh and stay clear of the new Walker's Cheese Toastie and Worcester Sauce flavour.

They are bloody awful.

Lineker, NO!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Bloody hell are there not more pressing things to do with CCFC than events that happened over 10 years ago?! Not to mention it is dead and buried because none of CCFC Ltd, CCFC H Ltd and Arena 2001 Ltd exist any more and have been struck off so will not be investigated

AEHC owned the shares it was not held as a security. The shares are disclosed as assets on the Charity accounts. They purchased the shares for 6.5m in total which was split settlement of an existing loan 2.5m, and 4m in cash. that cash was used by CCFC to repay Robinson etc £2m to cancel existing loans and Robinson etc then lent the company a new £2m loan.

CCFC invested an initial net 4.8m which was made up of moneys spent on the project £18m less £13.2m debts for the work done they could not pay. Subsequently to that they invested another £2m (the first GR etc loans) taking the total to £6.8m. The additional £2m is what appears on the council report. However CCFC then sold their shares in ACL to AEHC for £6.5m meaning the actual final net investment in the stadium project was £300k and even that could be argued only to have been unpaid interest on the debts and loans and not really construction costs.

one of the biggest mysteries has to be what in hells name were the board of CCFC doing spending £18m on land that they did not own!

Wont comment more than that because it has no bearing on the solution to the state CCFC are currently in