Brexit/SISU (46 Viewers)

[Astute]

Apparently, in a recent poll, the REGREXITEERS outnumber the margin of victory for Brexit.

I think as it becomes increasingly apparent that it is unworkable (and not in our or anybody's interests) Parliament will have no option but to block it.

Apparently?

So what about the polls where those that voted remain would now vote leave as the doomsday the remain lot told us about didn't happen? No war. No 500,000 jobs lost.

 

---

[chiefdave]

So it looks like May could have shot herself in the foot by appealing to court. Scotlands Lord Advocate is applying to speak at the trial. This could very well lead to a ruling that not only does it have to be voted on in the Commons but also in the UK's devolved parliaments.

 

[Astute]

There's a big difference between voting for a party and their policies in an election and casting a vote in what is essentially an opinion poll.

So you don't have an opinion in a general election? :joyful:

 

[Astute]

The vote couldn't have been more simple. In or out of the EU. No mention of the single market. You don't need EU membership for single market membership, you don't even have to be in the continent of Europe. We didn't vote out of the single market. It's as simple as that.

What a load of bollocks. Cameron and his buddies mentioned it enough times.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you don't have an opinion in a general election? :joyful:

Of course you have an opinion. You also have a vote that's more than that. Why are people confusing an election result with a referendum result. They're two completely different things. One is based on policy one is based on opinion that policy is then formed on. A referendum is ambiguous by nature and sets nothing in stone whatsoever.

 

[Astute]

So it looks like May could have shot herself in the foot by appealing to court. Scotlands Lord Advocate is applying to speak at the trial. This could very well lead to a ruling that not only does it have to be voted on in the Commons but also in the UK's devolved parliaments.

I say bring it on. Leave no stone unturned.

Are you sure it wasn't a good move by May? Maybe she wants to stay in the EU still but will let the courts make the decision. Any politician who rules against the majority will be finished.

 

[skybluetony176]

What a load of bollocks. Cameron and his buddies mentioned it enough times.

What did Cameron say exactly? I remember him saying plenty of times that we'll be left with a Norway situation if we vote out. What do you think the Norway situation is?

 

[Astute]

Of course you have an opinion. You also have a vote that's more than that. Why are people confusing an election result with a referendum result. They're two completely different things. One is based on policy one is based on opinion that policy is then formed on. A referendum is ambiguous by nature and sets nothing in stone whatsoever.

They are both based on opinions. Nothing else.

 

[Astute]

What did Cameron say exactly? I remember him saying plenty of times that we'll be left with a Norway situation if we vote out. What do you think the Norway is?

So he only mentioned Norway now?

 

[albatross]

The pound isn't weak......its had a correction and now looks about right.......it was over-valued pre-brexit......for many many reasons.....

...and the UK were still spending beyond our means as a result....

A potential good long term outcome from trade tariffs (if they happen) & a correctly valued pound could be that we, as a nation, stop buying (importing) & consuming so much fucking shit.....almost all of it, of piss poor quality & instantly disposable.....be it fashion, food or technology.

Great idea to reduce tax receipts. That will fix it for sure. But I suppose we can all sell our overpriced houses to each other and sell each other insurance policies

 

[skybluetony176]

So he only mentioned Norway now?

Do you know what the Norway situation is and what he said about it?

 

[chiefdave]

Any politician who rules against the majority will be finished.

How have you worked that out? Scotland voted remain, if the Scottish parliament rules with the majority in the country they are the parliament of they will vote against invoking article 50.

 

[skybluetony176]

They are both based on opinions. Nothing else.

Policy is more than opinion. Especially once you've won the election and taken power.

 

[chiefdave]

Farage never endorsed that slogan and actively criticized it. It was a lie. It's a vote leave Johnson gove thing. It was a lie and I'm big and ugly enough to admit it but to quote that and not the many many lies of the remain side is a tad biased. Every vote we have in this country is based on lies. It's about making your own informed decision.

So everyone knew exactly what vote leave meant but two of the most high profile figures of the leave campaign, Farage and Johnson, had totally different views.

Has there ever been a more blatant lie than the official vote leave bus having £350m to the NHS plastered down the side of it. We don't even send £350m a week for a start, its less than £250m and then if you account for what the EU spends in the UK it comes down to around £136m a week. I'm struggling to think of a bigger outright lie that has been told in any campaign.

 

[Astute]

How have you worked that out? Scotland voted remain, if the Scottish parliament rules with the majority in the country they are the parliament of they will vote against invoking article 50.

OK she might get the independence she craves. She might not.

How about the rest of them?

 

[Astute]

Policy is more than opinion. Especially once you've won the election and taken power.

But they need to have the voters to have the opinion that they would be the best party to take us forward before they could get voted in.

 

[chiefdave]

OK she might get the independence she craves. She might not.

How about the rest of them?

If the court decides all UK devolved parliaments must vote then if any one of them votes against continuing with brexit that's it, doesn't matter what the rest vote. Given that both Scotland and NI voted no I'd say its pretty risky for May, assuming this isn't all a plan to stop brexit happening.

 

[Astute]

Do you know what the Norway situation is and what he said about it?

And you still ignore everything else he said.

 

[clint van damme]

If the court decides all UK devolved parliaments must vote then if any one of them votes against continuing with brexit that's it, doesn't matter what the rest vote. Given that both Scotland and NI voted no I'd say its pretty risky for May, assuming this isn't all a plan to stop brexit happening.

that's how I see it.
I'll say one think for May, if she pulls this off and pins it on someone else after snatching the keys to number 10 from under the noses of the squabbling Bullingdon boys then she is one smart cookie.

 

[Astute]

So everyone knew exactly what vote leave meant but two of the most high profile figures of the leave campaign, Farage and Johnson, had totally different views.

Has there ever been a more blatant lie than the official vote leave bus having £350m to the NHS plastered down the side of it. We don't even send £350m a week for a start, its less than £250m and then if you account for what the EU spends in the UK it comes down to around £136m a week. I'm struggling to think of a bigger outright lie that has been told in any campaign.

And £136m is an insignificant amount?

How about we would go to war if we got the leave vote? Inflation would rocket? House prices would collapse? 500,000 jobs lost immediately? Stock market crash?

 

[skybluetony176]

So everyone knew exactly what vote leave meant but two of the most high profile figures of the leave campaign, Farage and Johnson, had totally different views.

Has there ever been a more blatant lie than the official vote leave bus having £350m to the NHS plastered down the side of it. We don't even send £350m a week for a start, its less than £250m and then if you account for what the EU spends in the UK it comes down to around £136m a week. I'm struggling to think of a bigger outright lie that has been told in any campaign.

Farage and Boris weren't that far apart crucially on the single market. Both kept pointing at Norway as an example of not being in the EU and adopting it. Although Ferage seems to be doing a U turn now. Gove was the only one who really put his hat firmly on the out of the EU and single market peg which is why he turned on Boris after the result and why he failed in his bid to become leader.

This is why I keep saying people didn't understand what they were voting for. The remain campaign was against a Norway situation should we vote out whereas the out campaign was indifferent to it. Some of the main voices for a Norway and a few against. The out campaign was so ambiguous depending on what you paid attention to it means two completely different things.

 

[clint van damme]

And £136m is an insignificant amount?

How about we would go to war if we got the leave vote? Inflation would rocket? House prices would collapse? 500,000 jobs lost immediately? Stock market crash?

the stock market did crash albeit short term and inflation is rising sharply. If we don't get the European passport then thousands of jobs will be lost when the financial service sector decamps to Frankfurt.
It was Cameron who said Brexit could lead to war so just a tory doing what torys do best.

 

[skybluetony176]

And you still ignore everything else he said.

Not at all. What were the leave campaign saying about the Norway situation? If you voted leave surely you're behind what they had to say about it. I'll give you a clue. I've already outlined it in a reply to chiefdave.

 

[Astute]

Farage and Boris weren't that far apart crucially on the single market. Both kept pointing at Norway as an example of not being in the EU and adopting it. Although Ferage seems to be doing a U turn now. Gove was the only one who really put his hat firmly on the out of the EU and single market peg which is why he turned on Boris after the result and why he failed in his bid to become leader.

This is why I keep saying people didn't understand what they were voting for. The remain campaign was against a Norway situation should we vote out whereas the out campaign was indifferent to it. Some of the main voices for a Norway and a few against. The out campaign was so ambiguous depending on what you paid attention to it means two completely different things.

So who do you know that voted for Farage or Boris? I don't know anyone who did. They did put people off voting leave though.

 

[Astute]

the stock market did crash albeit short term and inflation is rising sharply. If we don't get the European passport then thousands of jobs will be lost when the financial service sector decamps to Frankfurt.
It was Cameron who said Brexit could lead to war so just a tory doing what torys do best.

The stock market didn't crash. It went down for a small amount of time then went straight back up. It wasn't a crash at all.

Inflation isn't rising sharply. Some prices are going up. Others are going down. Just like they do these days.

Financial services leaving? Just a guess. No proof in the slightest. Just like car makers were supposed to pull out. But new models have recently been announced.

I agree with you on the Cameron lies though.

 

[Astute]

Not at all. What were the leave campaign saying about the Norway situation? If you voted leave surely you're behind what they had to say about it. I'll give you a clue. I've already outlined it in a reply to chiefdave.

Go on then. Who said what to make me vote leave? Especially as I didn't vote leave.

And if you voted remain did you do it because you didn't want to go to war?

 

[skybluetony176]

So who do you know that voted for Farage or Boris? I don't know anyone who did. They did put people off voting leave though.

No one voted for Gove either. Yet on the run up to the referendum both Ferage and Boris were promoting a Norway scenario (out the EU but remain in the single market) for us to leave the EU and Gove was promoting out of the EU and out of the single market. So what out were people voting for exactly when the out campaign couldn't even agree what out meant/means?

 

[chiefdave]

And £136m is an insignificant amount?

Didn't say that, I said it was very different to £350m. And is £136m a week going to the NHS as they were saying the whole £350m a week was.

How about we would go to war if we got the leave vote? Inflation would rocket? House prices would collapse? 500,000 jobs lost immediately? Stock market crash?

The war comment was pretty ridiculous, although there are those who will argue that the EU has prevented further conflict within Europe. As for the rest it was the general consensus of economist, agreeing to an unheard of extent. Some of their forecasts look like they could be correct and it would be foolish to rule anything out seeing as we haven't actually left yet.

 

[Astute]

Didn't say that, I said it was very different to £350m. And is £136m a week going to the NHS as they were saying the whole £350m a week was.

The war comment was pretty ridiculous, although there are those who will argue that the EU has prevented further conflict within Europe. As for the rest it was the general consensus of economist, agreeing to an unheard of extent. Some of their forecasts look like they could be correct and it would be foolish to rule anything out seeing as we haven't actually left yet.

Yes ridiculous claims by both sides as I have already said several times. Yet those who wanted to remain seem to think that those who wanted to leave fell for the ridiculous lies when they didn't.

And I thought you couldn't even make it up.

 

[chiefdave]

Right so your assertion is that nobody who say constant reference to £350m a week to the NHS if we leave voted believing the NHS would get the money being promised?

 

[Astute]

Right so your assertion is that nobody who say constant reference to £350m a week to the NHS if we leave voted believing the NHS would get the money being promised?

Right so your assertion is that nobody who heard about the war threat got a bit worried?

 

[skybluetony176]

Right so your assertion is that nobody who say constant reference to £350m a week to the NHS if we leave voted believing the NHS would get the money being promised?

The "let's take back control" (fill the blanks in to suit yourself) line plastered down the side of the bus wasn't any better.

 

[chiefdave]

Right so your assertion is that nobody who heard about the war threat got a bit worried?

Except I never made that statement. This thread has numerous posts stating that those who voted leave knew exactly what brexit meant and exactly what they were and won't voting for.

 

[Astute]

Except I never made that statement. This thread has numerous posts stating that those who voted leave knew exactly what brexit meant and exactly what they were and won't voting for.

And those who voted remain knew what they were voting for? Like no war or stock market crash. Plummeting house prices?

It was all bullshit. Yet some are trying to make out that the worse lies and the only ones who fell for the lies were those who voted leave. What an absolute joke. It was the worse campaigning by far I have ever seen. And it was by both sides.

If you want to pick bones then the sign on the bus had more truth than war. We would have paid much less and those losing out would have been those being subsidised and gaining grants. Whereas war was an outright lie. But the lies were as bad as each other whichever way you put it.

 

[chiefdave]

And those who voted remain knew what they were voting for?

Well as voting remain meant things staying the same it wasn't too hard to work out.