Brexit/SISU (47 Viewers)

[Nick]

So his daughter lives on her own in the UK then Nick?

I have no idea, I am just saying not everybody can get them.

Mine doesn't live on her own either, still only get the £20 a week.

 

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[martcov]

So his daughter lives on her own in the UK then Nick?

Yes that is right. I pay for her accomodation with a registered student landlady for full board and lodging. She wants to move in with older students because it would be "fun". I won't allow that though as she is a minor.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

? How do I get those? I get the child tax credit ( I call it child allowance ) in Germany as I have explained - or rather the mother does. I cannot see how I would get a UK child tax credit if I live and work in Germany.

I and the mother live and work in Germany and get € 194,00 a month tax credit in total. Explain yourself?

4.2 Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for children in other EEA countries One of the most controversial aspects of EU law in the area of social security is the provision under which a migrant may claim “family benefits” from the state in which they reside in respect of dependent children resident in another Member State. The provisions are in EC Regulation 883/2004 on the co-ordination of social security systems for people moving between Member States, but they have a much longer pedigree. The rules apply to all EEA countries, not just the United Kingdom. The key provision in EC Regulation 883/2004 is Article 67: Members of the family residing in another Member State A person shall be entitled to family benefits in accordance with the legislation of the competent Member State, including for his/her family members residing in another Member State, as if they were residing in the former Member State. However, a pensioner shall be entitled to family benefits in accordance with the legislation of the Member State competent for his/her pension. This means that, if an EEA migrant in the United Kingdom is covered by the UK social security system, they can claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for their dependent children even if they are not resident in the UK. The person making a claim must meet all the usual conditions for entitlement to these benefits, but the ordinary residence and presence requirements for the child or children do not apply and they can claim benefit for them on the same basis as if they were living in the UK. Where family benefits are already being paid, “overlapping benefits” provisions apply to ensure that the family is not paid twice (the total amount they receive will not exceed the amount payable by the state with the higher entitlement).

I'd take a closer look into this if I were you mate Your Ex might be taking you for a ride.

 

[martcov]

4.2 Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for children in other EEA countries One of the most controversial aspects of EU law in the area of social security is the provision under which a migrant may claim “family benefits” from the state in which they reside in respect of dependent children resident in another Member State. The provisions are in EC Regulation 883/2004 on the co-ordination of social security systems for people moving between Member States, but they have a much longer pedigree. The rules apply to all EEA countries, not just the United Kingdom. The key provision in EC Regulation 883/2004 is Article 67: Members of the family residing in another Member State A person shall be entitled to family benefits in accordance with the legislation of the competent Member State, including for his/her family members residing in another Member State, as if they were residing in the former Member State. However, a pensioner shall be entitled to family benefits in accordance with the legislation of the Member State competent for his/her pension. This means that, if an EEA migrant in the United Kingdom is covered by the UK social security system, they can claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit for their dependent children even if they are not resident in the UK. The person making a claim must meet all the usual conditions for entitlement to these benefits, but the ordinary residence and presence requirements for the child or children do not apply and they can claim benefit for them on the same basis as if they were living in the UK. Where family benefits are already being paid, “overlapping benefits” provisions apply to ensure that the family is not paid twice (the total amount they receive will not exceed the amount payable by the state with the higher entitlement).

The usual requirements being that I live in the UK. The child doesn't have to. If I could claim child benefit allowance in the UK, I couldn't claim them in Germany because of "overlapping benefits" provisions. I am living in Germany and the child is in England, so I can claim benefits in Germany. I can claim child tax credits in Germany anyway because the child is in the UK for schooling which is counted as not permanently - nothing to do with this extract.

 

[Astute]

The usual requirements being that I live in the UK. The child doesn't have to. If I could claim child benefit allowance in the UK, I couldn't claim them in Germany because of "overlapping benefits" provisions. I am living in Germany and the child is in England, so I can claim benefits in Germany. I can claim child tax credits in Germany anyway because the child is in the UK for schooling which is counted as not permanently - nothing to do with this extract.

This is one of the EU rules that pisses me off.

You only have to be living in the country you claim child benefit in when making the claim. Then if you move out straight away you keep the claim until the children don't qualify because of age/leave education. It costs us millions each year.

 

[Nick]

This is one of the EU rules that pisses me off.

You only have to be living in the country you claim child benefit in when making the claim. Then if you move out straight away you keep the claim until the children don't qualify because of age/leave education. It costs us millions each year.

What so for example somebody can come over from France, claim child benefit and then move back? Don't the kids have to have a british passport though? ie be born here or a parent?

 

[Kingokings204]

When are you going to realise that people voted out because they wanted change and people voted remain because they wanted no change. Problem is if you put the BS to one side from both sides the outcome of a remain victory was singular, the outcome of a leave victory was ambiguous because they couldn't even agree amongst themselves what leave means.

Take what kingokings believes he voted for "For me leave meant leave for everything. Leave the EU which meant leaving the single market which meant leaving open door immigration and leaving our contributions we pay and leaving the rules the EU imposes on us. Leaving the unelected polictians. Just simply leave meaning leave it all. I voted based on it all not one factor" only Gove was saying leave the single market. Boris wasn't. How did Goves leadership bid go? He's not even in government. He may as well have promised everyone eleventy billion pounds (or $200 in todays money ) if leave won. It's empty promises. We knew what to expect with pretty much 100% certainty what would happen if remain won. We didn't and still don't have any idea what leave means. It meant what ever you wanted it to mean seems to be the case. Doesn't mean it's going to happen though. The only thing we know for certainty is that we're leaving the EU. So kingoking is guaranteed pretty much some of the things he believed he voted for but he ain't going to get all of it. The big one possibly being exiting the single market not happening.

I agree. Good post.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If the child is British, and resident in the UK "Child Benefit""Child tax credit""Working tax credit" is available to the Parent/Guardian of that child. infact IIRC any child resident in the UK.

Tax credits are mean tested though aren't they?

Certain communities claim a lot more in tax credit than others, think about males who are self-employed in jobs with non standard hours and females who don't work.

 

[Astute]

What so for example somebody can come over from France, claim child benefit and then move back? Don't the kids have to have a british passport though? ie be born here?

No. Don't even have to be in the country. As long as something similar is not claimed in their own country or anywhere else that is. So say they have 6 kids. Father comes to the UK to work. He can claim child benefit for all the children. Then he can go back and join his family knowing that the payments are safe.

 

[Nick]

No. Don't even have to be in the country. As long as something similar is not claimed in their own country or anywhere else that is. So say they have 6 kids. Father comes to the UK to work. He can claim child benefit for all the children. Then he can go back and join his family knowing that the payments are safe.

How does that work? So I could go to say Italy tomorrow to work and try and claim child benefit even though they don't live in Italy?

Is that just the £20 a week one?

 

[Captain Dart]

How does that work? So I could go to say Italy tomorrow to work and try and claim child benefit even though they don't live in Italy?

Is that just the £20 a week one?

Don’t benefits vary widely from country to country?

 

[Astute]

How does that work? So I could go to say Italy tomorrow to work and try and claim child benefit even though they don't live in Italy?

Is that just the £20 a week one?

You already claim it here so you can't claim it again.

It is an EU rule that makes sense in theory. You have a right to what people in the country you are in has. For instance you are allowed the same health care. Same benefits. Child benefit is a benefit. But you don't lose it when you leave as long as you don't claim it anywhere else.

 

[martcov]

No. Don't even have to be in the country. As long as something similar is not claimed in their own country or anywhere else that is. So say they have 6 kids. Father comes to the UK to work. He can claim child benefit for all the children. Then he can go back and join his family knowing that the payments are safe.

Would be no good for me then... My child allowance ( me and the mother ) is 194,00 € per month. What would I gain? I could understand someone from, say, Rumania getting on to that 'scam', but I don't think Germans would bother as they would probably be worse off.

 

[Nick]

Don’t benefits vary widely from country to country?

I know, that was just an example. No idea what it is anywhere else, I had to google what it was here!!

 

[Astute]

Don’t benefits vary widely from country to country?

Yes. That is why it is claimed here. We pay more than most.

 

[Astute]

Would be no good for me then... My child allowance ( me and the mother ) is 194,00 € per month. What would I gain? I could understand someone from, say, Rumania getting on to that 'scam', but I don't think Germans would bother as they would probably be worse off.

Depends on how much you get for more kids I suppose.

 

[Astute]

You do get those that don't take the piss though. I know a Polish bloke who has 6 kids. He refuses to claim anything. He is here to work hard and pay his taxes. And he is here to stay.

 

[Nick]

You do get those that don't take the piss though. I know a Polish bloke who has 6 kids. He refuses to claim anything. He is here to work hard and pay his taxes. And he is here to stay.

That's the thing, if you dare to mention people who aren't like him and come over and take the piss you get labelled a racist.

I'd happily have 100 like him come from Poland and swap for 100 brits who take the piss. It is just you can't as easily.

 

[martcov]

That's the thing, if you dare to mention people who aren't like him and come over and take the piss you get labelled a racist.

I'd happily have 100 like him come from Poland and swap for 100 brits who take the piss. It is just you can't as easily.

I don't know about that ... the Germans are trying to stop these pisstakers. You now have to be here a certain amount of time and work to get on to these things...

 

[Astute]

I don't know about that ... the Germans are trying to stop these pisstakers. You now have to be here a certain amount of time and work to get on to these things...

If it was as easy as that the EU would work. Hardly anyone would want to leave. The problem is when you have people who can't speak English and are only interested in what they can get out of the system. And those that have worked all their life are left in poverty. It gives a bad name for the vast majority who come to work hard and improve themselves.

 

[skybluetony176]

I agree. Good post.

You didn't feel attacked then seriously though I'm glad you got the point I was making, can you explain it to Astute

Seems that you have some realism about your vote, may or may not get everything that you personally voted for and understand that. I have no problem with people voting for what they hope to achieve.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If it was as easy as that the EU would work. Hardly anyone would want to leave. The problem is when you have people who can't speak English and are only interested in what they can get out of the system. And those that have worked all their life are left in poverty. It gives a bad name for the vast majority who come to work hard and improve themselves.

I don't have a problem with paying benefits to EU migrants on the basis of reciprocity if I was in another EU country.

The biggest problem with the welfare state, and this applies to people born here as much as those born abroad, is that it has lost its link to contributions.

 

[Astute]

You didn't feel attacked then seriously though I'm glad you got the point I was making, can you explain it to Astute

Seems that you have some realism about your vote, may or may not get everything that you personally voted for and understand that. I have no problem with people voting for what they hope to achieve.

So you have just read what you feel like and made up the rest?

 

[Captain Dart]

That's the thing, if you dare to mention people who aren't like him and come over and take the piss you get labelled a racist.

I'd happily have 100 like him come from Poland and swap for 100 brits who take the piss. It is just you can't as easily.

I would quite happily swap the lazy benefit Brits for solid hard working people like that. The trouble is you can't on pain of loss of social stability and neither should we encourage a benefit culture to exist. The culture needed in this country is more like the Poles, proud to work and ashamed if they don't. How you get there I'm not sure but I am sure it isn't by screaming austerity every 5 minutes.

 

[Nick]

I would quite happily swap the lazy benefit Brits for solid hard working people like that. The trouble is you can't on pain of loss of social stability and neither should we encourage a benefit culture to exist. The culture needed in this country is more like the Poles, proud to work and ashamed if they don't. How you get there I'm not sure but I am sure it isn't by screaming austerity every 5 minutes.

A Lot of Brits are ashamed not to be working too.

I went to go to the job centre to sign on when I was younger, didn't make it through the door because I felt embarrassed and a bit ashamed.

Make it so people have to work if they can, if able bodied make them volunteer in return for benefits.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A Lot of Brits are ashamed not to be working too.

I did six months on the dole after graduating. The sightless look in peoples' eyes in the queue, the looks not of despair but the loss of hope... that was enough to tell me that few *wanted* to do this, it was forced upon them by circumstance.

Make it so people have to work if they can, if able bodied make them volunteer in return for benefits.

No, not volunteering. Volunteering takes away jobs, and allows people to get away with not paying others!

If a job is there to be done, pay somebody a living wage to do it and remove them from the unemployment list, it's perfectly simple.

 

[Nick]

I did six months on the dole after graduating. The sightless look in peoples' eyes in the queue, the looks not of despair but the loss of hope... that was enough to tell me that few *wanted* to do this, it was forced upon them by circumstance.



No, not volunteering. Volunteering takes away jobs, and allows people to get away with not paying others!

If a job is there to be done, pay somebody a living wage to do it and remove them from the unemployment list, it's perfectly simple.

Ideally yes if they could just turn it into a job and pay somebody for it then great, there are still things like charity shops for example where people can volunteer for a couple of hours a week and then it gives them a bit of retail experience and a reference to then push for a job doing that.

I agree that few want to do it, all you have to do is go into a Wetherspoons on a week day to see the other side.

 

[Captain Dart]

Ideally yes if they could just turn it into a job and pay somebody for it then great, there are still things like charity shops for example where people can volunteer for a couple of hours a week and then it gives them a bit of retail experience and a reference to then push for a job doing that.

I agree that few want to do it, all you have to do is go into a Wetherspoons on a week day to see the other side.

Isn't Wetherspoons more of a staging post to the old peoples home? At least in the daytime.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Isn't Wetherspoons more of a staging post to the old peoples home? At least in the daytime.

Myself and my wife often pop into our local Wetherspoons. Their Full English Breakfast and Cappuccino is not only good value but very tasty.

 

[Nick]

Myself and my wife often pop into our local Wetherspoons. Their Full English Breakfast and Cappuccino is not only good value but very tasty.

yes, to be fair it is nice.

What I meant was more people who are in there drinking halves all day

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Isn't Wetherspoons more of a staging post to the old peoples home? At least in the daytime.

Myself and my wife often pop into our local Wetherspoons. Their Full English Breakfast and Cappuccino is not only good value but very tasty.

QED

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

QED

Say that to my wife and she'd batter the fook out of ya! She's 18 years younger than me.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

yes, to be fair it is nice.

What I meant was more people who are in there drinking halves all day

Tbf my one isn't like being described. It's quite full of people like myself and younger couples and mums with toddlers enjoying something to eat up till lunch time, then it's very quiet in the afternoon.

 

[Astute]

Say that to my wife and she'd batter the fook out of ya! She's 18 years younger than me.

So she is only 68 then?

 

[Astute]

Myself and my wife often pop into our local Wetherspoons. Their Full English Breakfast and Cappuccino is not only good value but very tasty.

Full English and pint for me.

1st time the wife went with me she tried to tell me I wouldn't be able to get a pint that early. Then she tried to tell me I wasn't going to have a pint. We ordered our breakfasts and then ordered our drinks. When she saw that her orange juice was only 7p less than my pint she cancelled her drink and had a pint

I like to go to one on the morning of an afternoon game. Lines my stomach ready for the punishment it is about to get