The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (10 Viewers)

[Astute]

Tit-for-tat tariffs will only balance out at the end of the day...so why would either party go that route?

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The EU countries would be well out of pocket as we buy much more off them than they buy off us. But the money would go in tax and not the companies. Thw tax would most probably go to the EU to keep the gravy train going.

 

[martcov]

Tell me what decisions we have been able to make as part of the EU then?

Everything we have ever voted on that got passed. We even had a Uk foreign minister of the EU.

 

[Astute]

Everything we have ever voted on that got passed. We even had a Uk foreign minister of the EU.

That got passed?

So what have we got that we asked for?

 

[ccfc92]

Yes...on every issue such arguments can be levelled. It is a sad fact of life...& no doubt there would be some scheme set up to support them in some way. But the majority of homeowners will not be losing their jobs!

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This is 100% spot on.

There's no specific Leave/Remain traits.

I believe people should earn what they want in life, not be handed to them, but I also believe people who fall on hard times should be helped.

I believe immigration isn't a bad thing, but should be controlled to bring in workers that we need, who work and contribute to the economy, but I don't believe in letting anyone in.

I believe we need to trade with Europe, and the world, and am not arrogant enough to think the UK would survive without these trade deals.

The amount of presumptions shown towards Leave voters, is quite frankly, alarming. You're instantly an arrogant, racist, skin headed moron, apparently.

 

[ccfc92]

May was always in favour of the EU but knows she has to honour the will of the people.

Corbyn, like all real socialists, despises it and wants out.

Corbyn is anti-EU? :S

Genuine question

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It was in response to Astute's point - the banks, and other organisations are starting to plan relocation. The banks employ thousands of people - not everyone of these is a Gordon Gecko type nd will lose their jobs.

I ask again - where is the economic benefit of leaving the EU - I still don't see it. No-one seems able to explain (I mean in my real world, not on here).

We have been restricted in business dealings with the likes of China because of EU trading agreements...with them removed we might get even better deals elsewhere. It is all if's & buts & maybes really...whether positive or negative opinions are given atm

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[SkyblueBazza]

What do you propose we sell them? Genuine question?

All the stuff that they want & we can provide...those are the opportunities. In some countries for generations they have been keen to buy British because of that curious & bizarre belief that British is best

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[SkyblueBazza]

Well the US Commerce Secretary has already said a deal with the UK is a low priority and a free trade agreement with the EU is more important.

Canada will likely be more responsive but CETA took 8 years.

Onto India then, who was it that sunk the EU / India trade deal by refusing to accept Mode 4? That would be May. Do you think she will now u-turn and allow virtually unlimited immigration from India which will be a pre-requisite of any deal. And if she does how does that tie with us leaving the EU to have 'control of our borders'.

That leaves China. The likelihood, even discounting the fact we have monumentally pissed off President Xi by voting leave after he pushed the UK as the dominant EU member for Chinese trade, is that they will prioritise the EU as any rules of origin loopholes that could provide the Chinese access to the EU via the UK are likely to be closed. Although Xi is unpredictable so anything could happen then.

Not trying to be pessimistic but I think the process is going to be a lot more difficult and take a to longer than people are expecting.

Yes...seek the negatives and you will find some.
What the US Commerce Secretary says is not necessarily what he decides - the rhetoric used can be a tool to ramp up a stronger but still not attractive enough deal with the EU. The EU-US trade deal on the table now will look very different once the Brexit deal is finalised.

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[Grendel]

Despite the protestations of Martcov and co the rather pitiful antics of the EU trying to act tough is only political posturing.

They want to try and derail the government and try and boost Corbyn and co popularity by juvenile scare mongering

More significantly they are terrified of a significant vote for Le Penn in the presidential elections. Macron will win but if 45% of the electorate vote national front it's a significant blow against the ghastly Euro project from one of the biggest pro euro advocate countries.

 

[Captain Dart]

So Germany should carry on deciding our future?

..and how the hell can they let a Chancellor stand for a 4th term! Even the Yanks plugged that bad idea.

 

[dutchman]

Rather clever cartoon from The Economist I thought...

 

[Sick Boy]

All the stuff that they want & we can provide...those are the opportunities. In some countries for generations they have been keen to buy British because of that curious & bizarre belief that British is best

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Like what?

Any trade deal is going to massively favour those countries over us and they are going to smell blood. It seems that some are going to have to get used to Britain's diminished power within the world.

 

[Sick Boy]

Despite the protestations of Martcov and co the rather pitiful antics of the EU trying to act tough is only political posturing.

They want to try and derail the government and try and boost Corbyn and co popularity by juvenile scare mongering

More significantly they are terrified of a significant vote for Le Penn in the presidential elections. Macron will win but if 45% of the electorate vote national front it's a significant blow against the ghastly Euro project from one of the biggest pro euro advocate countries.

May's latest attempt at acting tough is pathetic and shows that she is weak.I wonder why she/you don't mind when non doms and hedge funds try to influence elections?

 

[Sick Boy]

Some of yes. Just like remain voters.

I think that I would be better off remaining. But leaving would be better for my kids and grandchildren. I am not complaining on what I could lose. Many remainers are.

Chances are they will be the generation reapplying for EU membership.

 

[Astute]

May's latest attempt at acting tough is pathetic and shows that she is weak.I wonder why she/you don't mind when non doms and hedge funds try to influence elections?

Who doesn't mind?

So you would like her to roll over and go on the EU terms? Itis the EU terms that have made people want to leave. This one rule for everyone doesn't work. What is best for Germany isn't best for all.

 

[Astute]

Chances are they will be the generation reapplying for EU membership.

Will there be an EU then?

 

[Sick Boy]

Who doesn't mind?

So you would like her to roll over and go on the EU terms? Itis the EU terms that have made people want to leave. This one rule for everyone doesn't work. What is best for Germany isn't best for all.

How is her latest outburst going to help with getting as good a deal as possible? She comes across as a weak and unstable leader.

 

[Sick Boy]

Will there be an EU then?

Yes there most certainly will be. We were told that first Austria and then the Netherlands would fall to anti-EU parties, which didn't happen. Now we have some willing a fascist to get into power in France in an attempt to weaken the EU. What a sorry state of affairs.

 

[martcov]

So we should stay in the EU because the unions were too strong 40 years ago?

No, but I think that we should stay in the single market as it benefits our industry.

 

[martcov]

Yes there most certainly will be. We were told that first Austria and then the Netherlands would fall to anti-EU parties, which didn't happen. Now we have some willing a fascist to get into power in France in an attempt to weaken the EU. What a sorry state of affairs.

It shows how right wing our country is becoming and how desperate some are. The brexiteers need some support in the EU to tell us " we told you so ". Some on here predicted the rise of the AfD in Germany and even said they were speaking for the silent majority. They have recently decided, unashamedly, not to become a more Centre party and stay on the extreme right - much to the pleasure of their openly neo Nazi wing.

Their ratings dropping accordingly.

In Germany the choice is very pro EU against extremely pro EU, with the FDP and greens as pro EU minority parties.

The silent majority seems to prefer reform the EU, to leaps in the dark such as voting to leave or for a Trump type character.

I hope Le Pen gets hammered.

 

[martcov]

Despite the protestations of Martcov and co the rather pitiful antics of the EU trying to act tough is only political posturing.

They want to try and derail the government and try and boost Corbyn and co popularity by juvenile scare mongering

More significantly they are terrified of a significant vote for Le Penn in the presidential elections. Macron will win but if 45% of the electorate vote national front it's a significant blow against the ghastly Euro project from one of the biggest pro euro advocate countries.

Would you say that a known fascist party winning or getting 45% is the preferable outcome to the ghastly Euro project? Are you quietly hoping for a Le Pen Presidency?

Shame on you if you are.

 

[martcov]

..and how the hell can they let a Chancellor stand for a 4th term! Even the Yanks plugged that bad idea.

The chancellor does not have the power of the presidency and is not directly elected. The party is elected and chooses the chancellor.

The last chancellor with presidential powers was Adolf Hitler who took over the presidency after Hindenburg died. The current president is Steinmeier. No comparison to the USA.

 

[martcov]

Rather clever cartoon from The Economist I thought...

Doesn't show the 27 opponents in the opposite corner- not enough space in the paper.

 

[Astute]

How is her latest outburst going to help with getting as good a deal as possible? She comes across as a weak and unstable leader.

And strangely enough you never mention Junckers outbursts. I am glad she is standing up to him or it would guarantee the hard brexit you keep going on about.

 

[Astute]

Yes there most certainly will be. We were told that first Austria and then the Netherlands would fall to anti-EU parties, which didn't happen. Now we have some willing a fascist to get into power in France in an attempt to weaken the EU. What a sorry state of affairs.

At last you have admitted what the EU is in its present state.

 

[Astute]

No, but I think that we should stay in the single market as it benefits our industry.

Don't we all. It is Juncker that said it won't happen. He is the biggest problem.

 

[Astute]

It shows how right wing our country is becoming and how desperate some are. The brexiteers need some support in the EU to tell us " we told you so ". Some on here predicted the rise of the AfD in Germany and even said they were speaking for the silent majority. They have recently decided, unashamedly, not to become a more Centre party and stay on the extreme right - much to the pleasure of their openly neo Nazi wing.

Their ratings dropping accordingly.

In Germany the choice is very pro EU against extremely pro EU, with the FDP and greens as pro EU minority parties.

The silent majority seems to prefer reform the EU, to leaps in the dark such as voting to leave or for a Trump type character.

I hope Le Pen gets hammered.

Germany does very well out of the EU. Most other countries don't. So there is bound to be unrest elsewhere and opportunists taking advantage.

 

[martcov]

Don't we all. It is Juncker that said it won't happen. He is the biggest problem.

The biggest problem is that we want to be in the single market, but not accept the rules for membership.

 

[Astute]

Would you say that a known fascist party winning or getting 45% is the preferable outcome to the ghastly Euro project? Are you quietly hoping for a Le Pen Presidency?

Shame on you if you are.

The best outcome would be reform in the EU. But there is no chance with Juncker in charge.

 

[Astute]

The biggest problem is that we want to be in the single market, but not accept the rules for membership.

In an EU we never voted to join.....

We joined the common market. It is nothing like what we joined.

 

[martcov]

Germany does very well out of the EU. Most other countries don't. So there is bound to be unrest elsewhere and opportunists taking advantage.

What do you mean "most others"? Even the ones complaining are getting something out of the EU. Most complainers ( countries ) are not wanting to leave, but are complaining about specific issues. The demagogues are having a field day - but they offer no alternatives... So, the EU will remain, but hopefully be reformed. A clear pro EU vote in France and Germany will strengthen the EU and so I hope the French and Germans will start reforming it.

We won't have any say and will be too busy unravelling our laws and going round cap in hand looking for trade deals with people like Trump or the Saudis for the next 5 to 10 years. "Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible".

 

[martcov]

In an EU we never voted to join.....

We joined the common market. It is nothing like what we joined.

Are you claiming that our elected government did not sign over authority to the European Parliament and thus the commission?

 

[martcov]

The best outcome would be reform in the EU. But there is no chance with Juncker in charge.

We do have a parliament, and a council led by Tusk. Juncker is not a dictator. He is also not commission president for life.

 

[martcov]

In an EU we never voted to join.....

We joined the common market. It is nothing like what we joined.

The system of government in England is different to, say, when the Magna Carta was drawn up. Things do evolve and successive UK elected governments have agreed all changes or have been part of the EU decision making process, as have our MEPs.

 

[Kingokings204]

its quite obvious all this scaremongering and 100billion bill is all a mask.

There is a very big presidential election Sunday in France that people haven't seemed to mention on this thread lately.

The bs and rhetoric from juncker and barnier is quite clearly a threat to the french people on who to vote for Sunday. It's don't vote for Le pen else you will end up like Britain and be "punished" which is ironic when legally there is no bill to settle and pay proven by law and German car workers and french wine producers would be "punished" there own voters if they don't get a good trade deal. I saw it mentioned earlier I don't see many German car workers families being happy if we all in Britain started buying fords niassans and kia's. Etc. who would be punished then? It certainly wouldn't be the British consumer.