The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (44 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee rights of EU nationals

Finally some common sense, let's hope that the vile May actually listens. Her refusal to take students out of the immigration figures is bizarre as well. Surely the country should be looking to attract talent rather than putting it off?

Come on SB this is a Prime Minister who believes in repeating vague platitudes and catch phrases ad nauseam in the hope that they stick. Who cares that David Davis, Minister for Flipping Off Brussels, has admitted that there will be a huge employment gap as a result of people moving out of Britain?

 

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[martcov]

Except it's not even right wing either - the present Tory party is only slightly right of centre I'd say.

What are you on?

 

[martcov]

Out of interest, @Sick Boy and @martcov what are your opinions on Corbyn?

He is a 70s Bennite. Farage is 70s NF btw. Not my scene - I was there (70s), but have moved on. The world has moved on. The U.K. needs a modern opposition- Corbyn is history. The policies are apparently ok. What I can't understand is, why the Labour Party doesn't ditch him in order to get power. He will never be prime minister and their policies will never be implemented.

 

[Captain Dart]

Out of interest, @Sick Boy and @martcov what are your opinions on Corbyn?

and McDonnell & Abbott.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He is a 70s Bennite. Farage is 70s NF btw. Not my scene - I was there (70s), but have moved on. The world has moved on. The U.K. needs a modern opposition- Corbyn is history. The policies are apparently ok. What I can't understand is, why the Labour Party doesn't ditch him in order to get power. He will never be prime minister and their policies will never be implemented.

What would a modern opposition look like then. What policies would it pursue?

 

[martcov]

What would a modern opposition look like then. What policies would it pursue?

Well, some think the current policies are right - but not the leadership..... the leadership is tainted for many people e.g. for support of terrorists. A modern labour would have fresher people as leaders and would have been stronger against Brexit before the referendum. I think the leadership must now try and fight what is becoming Brexit Britain - which includes racism. I am sure Corbyn is doing this, but where was he at the referendum? The growth of right wing neo nationalism in the U.K. is partly his fault.

There was even "labour leave". My racist right wing brother campaigned on that. He thought it was funny helping labour for the first time in his life. An unbelievable alliance.

Then they have been caught out a couple of times with anti-semitism, which, whilst agreeing that Israel needs criticism, things like red Ken's Hitler comments and other dumb comments from others should never happen in a socialist party.

For me, a modern opposition doesn't include dithering about Europe or tolerating "labour leave" or old pensioners such as Red Ken. It needs a radical stance on Europe - that means keeping us as close as possible to the EU in case Brexit ends up being a right wing beano and a future generation wants to get back in - and the, apparently, good current policies being put forward by others than the Corbyn clique.

 

[martcov]

and McDonnell & Abbott.

One word: unbelievable. Taken in the negative sense.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well, some think the current policies are right - but not the leadership..... the leadership is tainted for many people e.g. for support of terrorists. A modern labour would have fresher people as leaders and would have been stronger against Brexit before the referendum. I think the leadership must now try and fight what is becoming Brexit Britain - which includes racism. I am sure Corbyn is doing this, but where was he at the referendum? The growth of right wing neo nationalism in the U.K. is partly his fault.

There was even "labour leave". My racist right wing brother campaigned on that. He thought it was funny helping labour for the first time in his life. An unbelievable alliance.

Then they have been caught out a couple of times with anti-semitism, which, whilst agreeing that Israel needs criticism, things like red Ken's Hitler comments and other dumb comments from others should never happen in a socialist party.

For me, a modern opposition doesn't include dithering about Europe or tolerating "labour leave" or old pensioners such as Red Ken. It needs a radical stance on Europe - that means keeping us as close as possible to the EU in case Brexit ends up being a right wing beano and a future generation wants to get back in - and the, apparently, good current policies being put forward by others than the Corbyn clique.

So we have you criticising them for not standing up more strongly against Brexit, and another criticising them for not embracing it. Admit it, this party cannot do anything to please anyone and should just revert to being Tory-lite so we can continue letting the country drift further right. Also, for all the talk of anti-Semitic and racist comments, words matter much less than action. Has Jeremy Corbyn or any of his pals ever armed terrorist groups or states? No. Has Mrs May? Yes. I await a Telegraph article denouncing that, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Sick Boy]

Sadly it is unlikely that a left-wing government would ever get into power in England. It is conservative with a small c IMO...it is always going to be better to have a slightly left of centre than a UKIP-lite party, which we have at present.

The country is full of selfish 'I'm alright jack' types which little regard for others.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee EU nationals' rights

Aaah the good old Guardian. Conveniently ignoring the fact that pre-Christmas the PM attempted to have the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU secured and excluded from Brexit negotiations.

Merkel and Tusk said 'Nein', thereby confirming that they intend to use our ex-pats as bargaining chips.

That being the case, we should do exactly the same.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee EU nationals' rights

Aaah the good old Guardian. Conveniently ignoring the fact that pre-Christmas the PM attempted to have the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU secured and excluded from Brexit negotiations.

Merkel and Tusk said 'Nein', thereby confirming that they intend to use our ex-pats as bargaining chips.

That being the case, we should do exactly the same.

Let's go full tribal and boot out all foreigners, build a big fence that says 'fuck off foreigners' at Dover and go back to carving Britain up into fiefdoms. We are already headed that way, let's just accelerate the process.

 

[martcov]

Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee EU nationals' rights

Aaah the good old Guardian. Conveniently ignoring the fact that pre-Christmas the PM attempted to have the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU secured and excluded from Brexit negotiations.

Merkel and Tusk said 'Nein', thereby confirming that they intend to use our ex-pats as bargaining chips.

That being the case, we should do exactly the same.

We are the ones who want to cut EU freedom of movement- not Merkel. We started it......

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Let's go full tribal and boot out all foreigners, build a big fence that says 'fuck off foreigners' at Dover and go back to carving Britain up into fiefdoms. We are already headed that way, let's just accelerate the process.

Why would you want to do that?

Terrible idea.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

We are the ones who want to cut EU freedom of movement- not Merkel. We started it......

Not talking about FOM. Keep up.

Merkel & Tusk wouldn't agree to exclude the rights of EU citizens in UK and UK citizens in EU from Brexit negotiations. Would rather use them as bargaining chips. Shameful.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why would you want to do that?

Terrible idea.

Well in an age where drawing lines on a map and building fences is so popular I don't see why we should miss out. Serves them right, propping up our economy with their labour. Get rid of the lot, strong and stable and all that.

 

[martcov]

So we have you criticising them for not standing up more strongly against Brexit, and another criticising them for not embracing it. Admit it, this party cannot do anything to please anyone and should just revert to being Tory-lite so we can continue letting the country drift further right. Also, for all the talk of anti-Semitic and racist comments, words matter much less than action. Has Jeremy Corbyn or any of his pals ever armed terrorist groups or states? No. Has Mrs May? Yes. I await a Telegraph article denouncing that, but I won't hold my breath.

I don't know why socialists would want to leave the EU. The EU was set up against nationalism and has workers rights - such as maximum working hours - enforced by law. I would have thought the European socialists were fighting in unison for the less well off via the European Parliament. Why would people want Corbyn to embrace a situation which plays into the hands of the right and sees us having to ply our wares - such as weapons - to the Saudis and to go grovelling to a President and the richest cabinet in the history of the USA to get a favourable trade deal - when the EU already has one which covers us? Even Trump praised the German trade negotiatiors ( he meant EU negotiators as he does not know that the EU negotiates for all 28 members including Germany ). We know that Corbyn hasn't armed anyone - good or bad - because he has never held office. We don't know what he would do if he had the chance. But he never will have the chance, so I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[martcov]

Not talking about FOM. Keep up.

Merkel & Tusk wouldn't agree to exclude the rights of EU citizens in UK and UK citizens in EU from Brexit negotiations. Would rather use them as bargaining chips. Shameful.

They are negotiating from the perspective that FOM still exists. They want guarantees that, should May go for hard Brexit, migrants' living in other countries won't have to leave their homes and jobs. A perfectly reasonable demand from the point of view of people who actually give a shit about the people of Europe. I'm here in Germany, have businesses, a common law wife and a kid and have done nothing wrong. There is no way that I want to be kicked out at 62 years old in some form of retaliation because some morons in Boston don't like Poles picking the potatoes that want to be paid for harvesting.

 

[Sick Boy]

If Le Pen doesn't get it today then that will be the 3rd election in a row where an anti-EU candidate has been defeated.

I wonder when the impending destruction of the EU that we were promised will happen?

 

[Grendel]

If Le Pen doesn't get it today then that will be the 3rd election in a row where an anti-EU candidate has been defeated.

I wonder when the impending destruction of the EU that we were promised will happen?

Le pen wouldn't get a fraction of the support in the uk that she will get on France.

 

[ccfc92]

If Le Pen doesn't get it today then that will be the 3rd election in a row where an anti-EU candidate has been defeated.

I wonder when the impending destruction of the EU that we were promised will happen?

What were the other 2?

 

[martcov]

If Le Pen doesn't get it today then that will be the 3rd election in a row where an anti-EU candidate has been defeated.

I wonder when the impending destruction of the EU that we were promised will happen?

Another result today was the Landtagswahl in Schleswig-Holstein where Merkel's CDU got a great result... and the party which people on here believe the silent majority in Germany support, scraped over the 5% hurdle ( which is designed to keep weird parties out ) with 5,9% - This might change slightly when all results are in. The second state election this year, of two I think, where 'mad Merkel's' party has made gains. The FDP liberals also gained well. So, no anti EU right wingers in sight....

 

[martcov]

Le pen wouldn't get a fraction of the support in the uk that she will get on France.

She isn't getting the 45% in France either, which you said would show how far right and anti EU she has moved France.

I think Brexit and Trump are working wonders for the EU. You just have to look at the chaos in Britain and the USA to see what can happen if you actually believe what Trump, Murdoch and tossers like BoJo and Farage say, and then, stupidly enough, vote for what they stand for.

Thank god for the return of sanity in elections.

 

[Grendel]

Another result today was the Landtagswahl in Schleswig-Holstein where Merkel's CDU got a great result... and the party which people on here believe the silent majority in Germany support, scraped over the 5% hurdle ( which is designed to keep weird parties out ) with 5,9% - This might change slightly when all results are in. The second state election this year, of two I think, where 'mad Merkel's' party has made gains. The FDP liberals also gained well. So, no anti EU right wingers in sight....

I fail to see the point being made here. How many anti EU parties were elected in the uk?

 

[martcov]

I fail to see the point being made here. How many anti EU parties were elected in the uk?

As it turned out, there was a referendum which came out as anti EU. The party leading the polls massively, is doing so under the banner of Brexit means Brexit, which I class as anti EU. Labour is apparently anti hard Brexit, but for Brexit. So it is up to liberals and greens to try and at least get a second referendum when a deal is actually on the table for scrutiny, rather than just " let's leave the EU " for whatever perceived reason.

 

[martcov]

I fail to see the point being made here. How many anti EU parties were elected in the uk?

The point being in elections...... not specifically UK elections..

 

[Liquid Gold]

Macron getting 65.5% according to exit polls. When is the EU going to break down?

 

[Liquid Gold]

What were the other 2?

Austria and Netherlands

 

[Grendel]

Macron getting 65.5% according to exit polls. When is the EU going to break down?

The fact a pretty overt racist part is attracting 35% of votes not very long ?

 

[martcov]

The fact a pretty overt racist part is attracting 35% of votes not very long ?

Well a pro EU candidate won convincingly 65/35.... now you are saying that 35% is a large amount for the fascist anti EU brigade.... some on here claim that the 52/48 was a convincing victory for the anti EU movement here... that must mean that 65% was a mega huge enormous vote for the EU and Euro.

 

[Captain Dart]

Macron, reminds me of Blair. It will end up in tears.

 

[martcov]

Macron, reminds me of Blair. It will end up in tears.

The alternative would have been far worse...

 

[Grendel]

Well a pro EU candidate won convincingly 65/35.... now you are saying that 35% is a large amount for the fascist anti EU brigade.... some on here claim that the 52/48 was a convincing victory for the anti EU movement here... that must mean that 65% was a mega huge enormous vote for the EU and Euro.

This isn't an EU referendum vote it's a vote for a President of a country. Again this is an irrelevant argument. It does show significant extremism in France and a polarised country. Not surprising given the national debt in France exceeds the uk. As indeed does Italy, Germany and Spain.

 

[skybluetony176]

The fact a pretty overt racist part is attracting 35% of votes not very long ?

Over racist? As apposed to slightly racist? Racism is racism. I don't think there's a grading system for racism is there?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

The fact a pretty overt racist part is attracting 35% of votes not very long ?

Yes, extraordinary that a basically NF party in one of the major European countries should make it to the second round and then gain 35% of the votes.

One commentator has described the Le Pen vote as being a bigger seismic statement that the brexit vote.

Worrying times for the EU, following on from what happened in Austria a few months ago where the right wing anti-immigration Freedom Party gained a staggering 47% of the vote and came within a whisker of winning and then again in Holland where the ultra-right PVV became the second largest party.

 

[Captain Dart]

The alternative would have been far worse...

Le Pan Sr polled 17.6%, his Daughter 34.5%,, she is 49 I would guess she will have another go next time.
After which there is Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, Marine Le Pen's niece who at 28 is already a Deputy in Vacluse, (Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur )