The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, the rogue cartoonist and Trump supporter... I thought you got it from the express...
     
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  2. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No she doesn't say anything of the sort. She says a group of billionaires- including a successful hedge fund owner/ manager ( not ours. I used the word successful), who all know each other - and Farage - have access to enormous amounts of information on people like us.

    They can use this information to send fake news to anyone they choose. They choose people in, say, swing states according to what they browse and if they think they can appeal to these people's emotions. This doesn't mean the victims are poor, or even uneducated or stupid, just that they could be susceptible to having their emotions played with. They then feed the selected victims bullshit stories just before the election, that cannot be reputed in such a short time, to raise enough doubts about the opposing candidate to cause the victims to either change their preference or not vote at all.

    The fact that with Trump and Brexit the voters defied the polls at the last minute, hints that something may have influenced a small, but significant percentage of them.

    Even more so when you see that Hilary actually won the election by 3 million votes, but lost the electoral college.

    Trump profited enormously from free advertising by saying controversial things, and by being a major reality star and household name before he even ran. That and Bannon and co's information and direct targeting meant that Trump's fewer dollars were better spent.

    I don't know if all the facts in the brochure will not occur after Brexit has happened.

    The elites are not just what you call the liberal media. They include Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Mercer, Zuckerberg, Tillerson, and all the cronies in the Trump swamp. The finger you are pointing is directed at MSM and the EU ( Juncker being the targeted boo-man by many people as a convenient scape goat to justify the self-harm done by Brexit ), whilst you scoff at a journalist who is pointing out some very worrying facts. The billionaires have won in the USA and in the U.K..

    If there is a resistance movement, count me in.
     
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  3. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Oops. My bad.
     
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  4. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    I've read some shit on these message boards, (and posted a fair bit as well if I'm honest), but this takes the fuckin' biscuit!!
     
  5. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    and when she went to India to try and cosy up to them regarding post Brexit trade deals one of their first conditions was that it needs to be easier for Indian nationals to gain places at UK universities.
    She's going to have to give somewhere.
     
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  6. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but don't quote half my post to take it out of context.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  7. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    I quoted your whole post, I just highlighted in bold the relevant bit which the rest of your post had no bearing on. You made a statement, which in my opinion was so far wide of the mark it could play up front for us.
     
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  8. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Care to explain why you think that?
     
  9. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    quite simple, we live in an increasingly greedy, selfish society where the rich are out to grab every last penny for themselves. Everything has a price except the lives of societies most vulnerable who are treated appallingly. The evidence is all around for everyone to see, the cuts to services hitting the people who need them most the defunding of the NHS in order to introduce an American style insurance based health service by stealth.
    Empathy and charity have become dirty words. How you think this country has become more left wing is beyond me.
     
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  10. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but did you read my following posts after the one you originally quoted?
     
  11. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    No mate, it's a big ol' thread! I'll try and catch up with the rest later.
     
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  12. Earlsdon_Skyblue1

    Earlsdon_Skyblue1 Well-Known Member

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    My personal view point is that society has generally moved further left wing as generations of young people with growing good intentions develop and grow up. People want to do the right thing, but unfortunately at this time a lot of them are also very spoilt and have never been told 'no' in their lives. Look at the constant rioting of left wing groups at the moment when they haven't got their way. That isn't productive and certainly isn't peaceful and tolerant is it? That's 'we are tolerant only if you agree with us'. The other issue with this is naivety that a lot of people have because they haven't lived in the real world enough. Some of the left wing and liberal ideologies are really good on paper, but in reality are utter nonsense.

    That being said, political correctness is at an all time high and with the intolerant tolerant bashing you down for even trying to have a healthy debate on a lot of things, speaking your mind is extremely difficult. I will definitely agree that has been a more recent shift back towards the right (Le Pen, Wilders etc), and I think a lot of this is due to a combination of failing left wing policies, the art of freedom of speech dying, and because Islamic Terrorism and crime in general from migrants is a really current, and in a lot of people's eye's, big problem. They don't feel they have the means to express their opinion reasonably on this without being shot down, so quietly go to the ballot box.

    Of course this does give a lot of racists and hateful people a platform and it does encourage extremism from right wing groups, however this is getting confused with your average Joe who does also just have good intentions. On this subject though, I think our society is considerably less at danger from right wing groups than Islamic Terrorism. However, my opinion is that they are both made up of people that are not fit to walk the planet.

    With Brexit I think a lot of people confuse the EU with Europe itself. I am really pro Europe but pretty anti-EU. The whole thing does need reform, and if they weren't prepared to listen to our concerns then I don't think they can really complain when as a country we say we want to leave. Not that they are 100% to blame for our exit, but if they EU were doing a better job then this wouldn't have happened.

    I am confident we have a bright future and I believe Brexit can work. Personally I am not as concerned as some because I believe the west is too civilised for it not to. I know some people on here live abroad and are feeling a bit exposed and worried about what might happen, and I get that. My other half is Slovak and if it did all go wrong I would have a lot more to lose than most people here myself. That being said, if I did think there was any realistic chance the whole thing would be a disaster I would have never voted to leave.
     
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  13. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I don't totally disagree with everything there. I don't consider myself as left wing, or rather didn't used to. Society has jumped to the right and now I am considered left wing because I believe in what, in pre Trump and Brexit times, were called western values.

    You talk about left wing crime, but here in Germany it is dwarfed by right wing crime- e.g. attacking refugees, burning refugee homes, desecrating Jewish graves...

    Islamic terrorism is bad, but we have had terrorism before, especially in the 70s. The difference is that the right wing is better at using social media.... the left wing running around wearing hoods and black clothes whilst screaming and attacking demonstrators or people wishing to hear an alternative view , only adds to the fear of normal people and pushes them towards the right who promise law and order and protection- the ways of providing this can clash with the old school western values that people such as myself believe in.

    A few very rich people on the right have worked out how to use information harvested from our web use.

    I think Brexit and Trump have opened Pandora's Box....people who would have been outsiders are now in the forefront. You only have to look at Trump and Bannon to see what is happening to western values... lies, warmongering, threats, Muslim bans... they don't belong in my world... as militant Islam doesn't...

    Brexit has let a lot of nasty bastards have their say - they are a small minority of Brexit voters, but they have turned their backs on the BNP and other scallywag parties to join UKIP ( not all UKIP voters ) and now tactically they are aligned with the Tories. They are enjoying life under the Brexit banner with millions of decent people and probably think they have become they have become respectable at last...
     
  14. Earlsdon_Skyblue1

    Earlsdon_Skyblue1 Well-Known Member

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    That's a well thought out response, thanks for sharing.

    I definitely agree with a lot of what you've said, perhaps it's more my generation I feel is more left wing at the moment. Certainly they are a lot more vocal to my day to day surroundings and exposure. In terms of Brexit, I think (generally speaking) more left wing people probably did vote remain, and more right wing people probably did vote leave. I was very much on the fence but got really harassed (quite nastily) by a lot of people around me just for suggesting we should talk about the option of a leave vote. With the media if I see a story I'll normally cross check it about three times with different sources, they all have their own agenda and it's a fucking nightmare.

    I do know that there are crimes committed in Germany towards refugees and that isn't acceptable. Certainly from what I have encountered being in Germany I have witnessed it very much the opposite way around, but as you live there I will take your word for what I haven't seen. Ultimately I think a lot of the people who have been classed as refugees should not have qualified whatsoever, and this only adds to the issues. Any genuine refugee should have a roof over their head, and you can tell a lot of them apart because they are often the ones that will grab the chance of asylum with both hands and do their best to put something back into the country that has taken them in. Sadly there is a lot of people who have quite the opposite attitude and they are causing a hell of a lot of issues.

    Most political parties in the UK at the moment are in a mess, but when she was first appointed I did think May was not a terrible choice. Brexit is inevitable and by having someone who was a remain voter herself, should make it so that she can try to make as many people happy as possible. I don't think it's necessarily been the case so far though, and she certainly didn't need to say that shit about 'Bloody difficult woman'. She needs to be mature and not stoop to that level if Brexit is going to have any success.
     
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  15. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Society isn't more left wing in respect of belief in left wing economics. It is in respect of belief about equality.

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
     
  16. dancers lance

    dancers lance Well-Known Member

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    What war?
     
  17. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion we have seen a shift towards on this over the last 5 years back to the right. On top of that, Britain is one of the most unequal societies in the developed world.
     
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  18. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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  19. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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  20. Earlsdon_Skyblue1

    Earlsdon_Skyblue1 Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to hate fuck Marion Le Pen so bad.
     
  21. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    I know those feels man. Same with Palin.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Well this thread has taken a disturbing turn! But our of kindness I'd take one for the team and have a go with Ivanka.
     
  23. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Any news on Farage regarding his best mate Donald? Not so long ago he was on a stage with Donald talking about democracy and taking our country back, and then back in London wearing a Make America Great Again Hat. Are we to believe that Trump is on our side in taking our country back? Is his example the way to go?

    Has Farage disowned him now that he is dismantling democracy in the USA? Or are they still mates?
     
  24. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Head of the FBI fired while investigating Trumps ties to Russia. Echoes of when Nixon fired Cox which led to Watergate.

    And now a reporter has been arrested for asking questions on healthcare reforms.

    How much more before Trump is impeached.
     
  25. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    You certainly are one for coming up with memorable quotes. :)

    The only ever time I was 'seeing' a Tory she would end up with a few bumps on her head.
     
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  26. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    The less we hear from Farage the better!
     
  27. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    LBC 7pm Monday to Thursday every week. The nigel farage show.
     
  28. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No thanks.
     
  29. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Either that, or something really bad happens and Trump makes a bid for more power - to protect America from terrorism. All been done before. Hitler worked with von Pappen. Von Pappen thought he could control him.... then came the Reichstag fire and the enabling act to allow the government to take contend protect the people .....and that was it for democracy...

    Bannon is well aware of the script and putting Sessions in - a right wing racist - as Attorney General, and now removing the guy he was previously praising from the FBI. is right in line with the script.

    Unbelievable. Would love to hear Farage aggressively challenged on his association with this puppet of Bannon.
     
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  30. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    This is a question for leave voters.

    If the UK was to leave the EU but stay inside the Single Market, would Brexit have been a complete waste or time and put the country at a disadvantage?
     
  31. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    No
     
  32. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Still bound by freedom of movement, unable to sign trade deals with no influence over EU policy?
     
  33. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Explain
     
  34. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    He only said single market though. Nothing about freedom of movement etc you mentioned

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  35. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    The two are intertwined.
     

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