Grendel
Well-Known Member
Just heard Paul Nuttall say the same thing. You and UKIP in harmony. My my
van driven at pedestrians in London (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter clint van damme
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Just heard Paul Nuttall say the same thing. You and UKIP in harmony. My my
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Plenty of people across the political spectrum would agree. You're the hypocrite would is planning on voting for a party which censors people discussing it and refusing to release information. If it was Corbyn doing the same you'd be the first to complain.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
I agree with much of Grendel's sentiments on this . If our stance doesn't change in the way this is dealt with it will become a regular theme.
What we are good at in this country are candle lit prayers, minute silences, laying of flowers and sending our heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims.
It doesn't stop the next attack and it's simply a question of time before it happens all over again.
It almost makes me laugh to see politicians saying we need to go about our normal business and stand up to these terrorists. When the people of Manchester went to work the next day in a "show of solidarity" they went to work because they had to. Life went on because it had to. They have to earn a living. They have families to support. It doesn't mean they're not afraid, angry or sad.
We may well stand together in a show of defiance but if some bastard decides to blow me to kingdom come outside of Tesco it'll be simply another bunch of flowers tied to a lamp post with the words "he went about his daily business" I'm sure the BBC would pick that one out and tell everyone how brave I was.
What we are good at in this country are candle lit prayers, minute silences, laying of flowers and sending our heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims.
It doesn't stop the next attack and it's simply a question of time before it happens all over again.
It almost makes me laugh to see politicians saying we need to go about our normal business and stand up to these terrorists. When the people of Manchester went to work the next day in a "show of solidarity" they went to work because they had to. Life went on because it had to. They have to earn a living. They have families to support. It doesn't mean they're not afraid, angry or sad.
We may well stand together in a show of defiance but if some bastard decides to blow me to kingdom come outside of Tesco it'll be simply another bunch of flowers tied to a lamp post with the words "he went about his daily business" I'm sure the BBC would pick that one out and tell everyone how brave I was.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
How could you justify locking someone up for opinions? Totally unworkable
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Theresa May has had 7 years...SEVEN YEARS to sort it out and she has failed. In three days times she is asking for our endorsement so she can no doubt fail again.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
And also guaranteed to create more extremists.
We'll_live_and_die
Moderator
Just out of interest, how many people here would be more than happy if they called all men under 40 up for service to eradicate these extrememists, both here and abroad?
The Lurker
Well-Known Member
If someone opinion is that killing innocent people justifies there belief then they should be locked up. No smoke without fire. they are on a watchlist for a reason. human rights can fuck off where that is concered
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
What...you mean give all our home grown extremists access to guns, bullets, grenades, missiles & bombs?
Yeah, that would work!
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We'll_live_and_die
Moderator
I'd suggest that some vetting might be needed.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I'm over 40 so would be well happy.
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
The western worlds (mainly America & ourselves ) decision making in the Middle East
'primarily Iraq' which has cost over 1 million innocent lives,
It Has opened up the biggest 'can of worms" imaginable and Our governments Have
Absolutely no idea how to put the lid back on.
And it was all done in the name of Oil and massive rebuilding infrastructure contracts,
Handed out to members of the Bush administration, Cheney and Rumsfold etc.
Unfortunately for us you "reap what you sowe"
'primarily Iraq' which has cost over 1 million innocent lives,
It Has opened up the biggest 'can of worms" imaginable and Our governments Have
Absolutely no idea how to put the lid back on.
And it was all done in the name of Oil and massive rebuilding infrastructure contracts,
Handed out to members of the Bush administration, Cheney and Rumsfold etc.
Unfortunately for us you "reap what you sowe"
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes Blair and bush have blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned. We since learn the Iraq war was totally avoidable and it was clearly a power grab and money oil opportunity. Hang their heads in shame.
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Never going to happen mate, whilst it's clear the whole area is unstable, volatile
And unpredictable, leading to their thirst for ever more destructive weapons.
It's also clear that we have the capability to build such weapons, and it's crystal
Clear that we really don't care who we sell them to "for the right price "
And that's one thing they have plenty of "filthy lucre " and we want it.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
- Financial restrictions on certain countries.
- Stop selling arms to dubious regimes.
- Pull out of all military intervention in the region.
- Pressure on Turkish and Iraqi governments to recognise Kurdistan.
- People like Blair investigated properly with potential war crime trials.
- Require all mosques to submit accounts with strict details as to where funds are coming - those that are suspect should have all activities suspended pending investigation.
- Ban all single faith schools, Muslim, Christian, Jewish. All. We're a multi-faith, multi-cultural society and no segregation should take place. Kids taught to standardised national curriculum.
- Correctly fund police and give them tools to carry out their job.
- Use mirroring to replicate radical Islamic sights but going through GCHQ servers so anyone visiting sights is instantly put on a watch list. Home Sec then approves all internet activity monitored and any further suspicious activity deemed a criminal offence.
- More air time given to moderate Muslims, Sidiq Khan for example, to show that success is possible as a British Muslim.
- Shut down sites like Britain Fist who perpetuate hate and divisions in society.
- Moderate British Muslims in all mosques to monitor any potential suspicious activity
I'd also have a look at the laws regarding hate speech and introduce community service schemes. Anybody caught spreading bile online will be forced to do 30 days unpaid work in the affected communities. Anti-Muslim hate speech will mean work in a Mosque. Terrorist supportive statements will mean working for victim support charities. 2nd offence is prison.
We should make sure that atrocities like this are not used for political gain. The message should be repeated, yes there is obviously a problem with radical Islam and we are trying to rectify this using the steps above, this is still the safest time our civilisation has ever had. Live your life without worry or panic.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Everyone'll just go onto redtube
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Some very good points.
You're 2nd to last is what worries me most with all that's going on, the terrorist atrocities Are
shocking and will no doubt change the way people think and live.
But it's people's reaction to them that gives me most concern, with every attack more people
Will start to tar an entire ideology/ faith with the same brush, turning neighbours on neighbours
And community on community, at this point The terrorists have won.
The EDL & BNP etc must be rubbing their hands together in glee.
Who would have thought that just 70 years on from the world rising up to defeat fascism, we
Would be so close to following that path again.
We obviously don't learn from the past.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
there is no free pass. there is looking at the problem from both sides however
foreign policy causes a lot of the terrorism as they are revenge/justice motivated in the killers warped minds.
but nothing changes fact they are evil disgusting human beings and killing innocents does not make up for innocents lost in their homeland or the land of their family or religion etc
its the fact so few in this world can see it from both sides that makes me worry. this is not good vs evil. this is evil vs evil with the good getting the worst of it in england and middle east.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
So if they're unsuitable...we simply eradicate them then?
Because I think there are a number of people on this site alone that I wouldn't trust with an unloaded gun, let alone a loaded one - would we eradicate them too?
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Fully agree. We know what is happening. We see where it is coming from, but we avoid attacking religion. Not because we don't want to unfairly blame one religion, but because 'we' are a Christian country with a religious leader as head of state and a prime minister who leads according to her Christian values.
Until people admit that a god is extremely unlikely to exist and there is not a scrap of evidence to say that he she or it exists, we will have to accept that people are going to imagine they are doing his will - according to their own belief in horrific stories in dubious sourced books. Some extremely good and some disgustingly bad interpretations.
We cannot allow religious segregation from a young age. If we do we will always have problems and never achieve a peaceful way of life.
Everyone deserves an education based on the facts as we know them. There is no place for ridiculous beliefs stemming from desert life 2000 years ago.
And yes hate speech and the glorification of violence should be robustly punished- without allowing for religious privilege such as people referring to their holy books.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
People need to think about this from the other side too - what if all Middle East countries had shown some form of solidarity & stopped dealing with us when the original Iraq invasion took place? NO OIL!
Let us stop dealing with Middle East countries now...NO OIL.
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
No, I can think from the otherside. My point is that there are people that like to twist the knife in and infer that we deserve it, although never directly admit to it.
I have said countless times we need to withdraw from the middle east and cut ties with Saudi immediatey. I also think however, installing people into power who want to do away with our defences, MI5, and open the borders up even more need to check their own policies along with the criticism of others.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Many points that I agree on there LG.
As we have said many times, we often have different views on this kind of thing. Personally looking at that I can't argue with anything, but I think the focus is too much on the other side. No, we should not tolerate hate speech and the like, but a lot of these things would die down themselves if Islamic extremism was tackled. The only reason right wing 'behaviour' is growing, is because these issues which draw them out have not been tackled. That is often on the left if I'm honest.
Ripping off someone's Niqab should be punishable, but shooting children at a concert is worse. I really think if the latter is stamped out, the former will also die off. Sense of perspective really. I can understand why people are worried about right wing extremism, but I am certain that Islamic extremism is far more serious and damaging to our way of life right now.
We should form our own government off SBT. I'm sure the world would largely be a better place.
Maybe...
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
well i most certainly am not saying that. no person out for a nice evening deserves to be stabbed to death or run over intentionally.
i think those that bring up foreign policy do so because find it crazy how some really see it as "hey we are the good guys,why are they attacking us" etc like i have seen on my twitter timeline all weekend. balance is needed,2 side sof the coin etc
you have said you understand the foreign policy element to it. and i can agree with you that immigration is taking the piss and there is a huge issue with letting in people who will not intergrate. if we want to end this we need to tackle it from both sides.
Always on about borders.... As usual these tossers live here. The borders are not the main problem. We live on an island and control our borders. The problem is that these religious books are horrific. They all tell of stonings and executions etc. for minor crimes ( e.g. in the bible, death penalty for gathering sticks on the sabbath ). WTF? If a political party were to write about the horrific ways you should treat unbeleivers, or even your wife and children if the do "wrong" they would be in major trouble with the law. But, if it's written in some dubious old holy book nothing will be done. Why?
The people attacked by these sick bastards didn't deserve this crap. Nor do the people who will be killed and maimed by our and Trump's weapons ( many more than in this incident ) which we openly and without discussion sold to a bizarre monarchy which allows it's citizens to propagate one of these pathetic desert religions.
We must put religion in it's place. That includes the god who Bush, Blair and May talk to. By accepting the supernatural, we are on the same level as muslims - some of whom take things in their book literally. Look at how religious our society is. Head of State is the defender of the faith. FFS, let us grow up and set an example of secular life.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I get your point - however there are some things we could do immediately for example, we could stop trading weapons with Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
Other things that may be more of a challenge would be stopping Turkey buying oil from ISIS.
IMO there appears to be a lack of desire on the part of those that could make a difference...
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
On about borders because we have a big enough problem here. The last thing we want to do is import more of it, and we already are. How is that helping? It is making it 1000% worse.
Religion should be put in its place. However, if you stop the UK being a Christian country, which religion will then step forward and try and claim it for their own? Like it or not, historically this has always been a Christian country and I don't see the harm in it still being that way. In fact, it should be. If 6% of the population were Christians and they were responsible for 99% of terrorism offences you might have more of a point I think, although I can see where you are coming from overall.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
These are all things that we can start doing now.
- Financial restrictions on certain countries. (Plenty of banks in the Middle East they could use...so minimal impact)
- Stop selling arms to dubious regimes. (The Russians & Chinese would be in their element)
- Pull out of all military intervention in the region. (We have allies amongst various rebel factions that if we abandon will never win back if they succeed in gaining power...or they & their families would be brutalised before death)
- Pressure on Turkish and Iraqi governments to recognise Kurdistan. (Then the Turks & Iraqui's living in Kurdistan kick-off...the needle returns to the start of the song & we all sing along like before)
- People like Blair investigated properly with potential war crime trials. (ABSOLUTELY YES)
- Require all mosques to submit accounts with strict details as to where funds are coming - those that are suspect should have all activities suspended pending investigation. (I think you mean 'funds are going'...not sure if this is already a requirement or not, but ought to be. Source of funds received ought to be recorded too - at least loosely)
- Ban all single faith schools, Muslim, Christian, Jewish. All. We're a multi-faith, multi-cultural society and no segregation should take place. Kids taught to standardised national curriculum. (ABSOLUTELY YES)
- Correctly fund police and give them tools to carry out their job.(Not sure we are a million miles from this already...its simply that the true scale of the problem isn't known so how many police do you need & what tools?)
- Use mirroring to replicate radical Islamic sights but going through GCHQ servers so anyone visiting sights is instantly put on a watch list. Home Sec then approves all internet activity monitored and any further suspicious activity deemed a criminal offence.(Most of that you would expect to have been happening 5-10yrs or more ago. It has to be remembered that criminal offences introduced could quite easily drive the baddies further underground...& at the same time leave much more innocent people & organisations open to arrest - veering towards a police state!)
- More air time given to moderate Muslims, Sidiq Khan for example, to show that success is possible as a British Muslim. (ABSOLUTELY NOT. Faith & success should not be broadcast together...it might raise false expectations & lead to even greater disaffected murderers)
- Shut down sites like Britain Fist who perpetuate hate and divisions in society. (Never heard of it)
- Moderate British Muslims in all mosques to monitor any potential suspicious activity (I feel pretty certain that the vast majority in the congregation & leadership of every mosque is fairly moderate to extreme & against violence & such acts)
I'd also have a look at the laws regarding hate speech and introduce community service schemes. (Already laws & sentencing laid down.. maybe needs redefining & stronger sentencing) Anybody caught spreading bile online will be forced to do 30 days unpaid work in the affected communities. (All covered by existing hate laws & sentencing) Anti-Muslim hate speech will mean work in a Mosque. (Good idea...all those reporters from the tabloids would love it) Terrorist supportive statements will mean working for victim support charities. 2nd offence is prison.
We should make sure that atrocities like this are not used for political gain. (That is never gonna happen...it will always be a means to achieve power or at least an audience by someone) The message should be repeated, yes there is obviously a problem with radical Islam (RELIGION) and we are trying to rectify this using the steps above, this is still the safest time our civilisation has ever had. Live your life without worry or panic.(From the safety of their own security blanket)
) Terrorist supportive statements will mean working for victim support charities. 2nd offence is prison.Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
My thoughts in brackets as always with such long posts.
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We'll_live_and_die
Moderator
I ain't the prime minister buddy, but I would support physical action rather than words.
Possession of one of these flags should be instant deportation. i.e. Straight on the next plane to wherever your grandparents came from.http://video.dailymail.co.uk/previe...5191099595/964x580_MP4_593257075191099595.mp4
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
nice sentiment but makes no sense. harsh punishment sure i agree with this. but going around looking for extremists is a bit silly.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
And what if they are refused entry? Other nations happily put them straight back on the next plane back to Britain! Then what?
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We'll_live_and_die
Moderator
Ever seen the Terminal?
The Terminal - Wikipedia
But seriously I'm not the prime minister I don't have all the information nor the answers. Like I said earlier I would support physical action to achieve a resolution.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
And they say..."no weapons...no oil"...then what?
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