General Election (2 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

He called the IRA fighters brave.

If Labour had an elected councillor who used to be an IRA member, they'd be outrage. If Corbyn was preventing information with regards to terror funding entering the public domain they'd be outrage.

The Tory hypocrisy is ridiculous. (I understand you aren't a Toy voter).

 

---

[Liquid Gold]

No he never said it.

No he never said it.

No he never said it.

No he never said it.

So what if he said it. It was over 30 years ago :banghead:

You're banging your head against the wall about what different people have said.

Bigi is good

Bigi is shit

Make your mind up you're Coventry City fan you only have 1 shared opinion.

Fucking hell!

 

[clint van damme]

Which is an utter waste of money and typical class snobbery. As well as mot costed accurately as fees will rise and the state will have an influx of more children.

amazing that this tax changes and changes to the corporation tax come under so much scrutiny but we're all supposed to accept that cuts to vital services are a necessary evil and we shouldn't question them too much.
Class sizes rising to 35-40, fine.
Loss of 20,000 police officers, fine.
Implementation of the Naylor report, fine.

Rise in corporation tax, changes to private school tax exemption, right wing melt down.

We're slowly becoming an apartheid state, but segregation will be based on wealth rather than race. Some people will be happy to sit in their gated communities counting their money, they were in South Africa, and to a lesser extent, they are in the States but that's not the sort of society I want to live in. Where poor people are denied health care and education and are suppose to be grateful to their overlords for a zero hour contract with no workers rights.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Has nobody even made the consideration that he called and IRA fighter brave in order to build bridges. He attended funerals because he knew there would be influential republicans there and it would be an opportunity to start a dialogue. You know, the dialogue that resulted in a ceasefire and then a peace agreement.

 

[Astute]

If Labour had an elected councillor who used to be an IRA member, they'd be outrage. If Corbyn was preventing information with regards to terror funding entering the public domain they'd be outrage.

The Tory hypocrisy is ridiculous. (I understand you aren't a Toy voter).

There should be outrage about many MP's. They should have a clean past. They should be the same whilst in office. The whole thing is becoming a joke. The direction of our lives depends on people we don't trust. And they are as bad as each other.

 

[Joy Division]

One quote after being pushed for it. But would never condemn the IRA.

It is shocking how so many don't even have doubts about him.

One quote where he did condemn the IRA yes, in the thing you actually quoted above. Bit different to where you said he continues to praise the IRA.

 

[Astute]

Has nobody even made the consideration that he called and IRA fighter brave in order to build bridges. He attended funerals because he knew there would be influential republicans there and it would be an opportunity to start a dialogue. You know, the dialogue that resulted in a ceasefire and then a peace agreement.

Consider what you like. But it wasn't just a comment. He was a part of the propaganda for the IRA. Have you read the links?

I understand how the IRA come about. But it isn't an excuse for the direction they took. Countless innocent women and children were murdered. This doesn't sit with me well at all. And we could have someone that was involved with them as our next PM within the next 24 hours.

The problem is that the Tories are not much better.

It is like the USA elections. We have the choice between an undesirable or someone even worse.

 

[Astute]

One quote where he did condemn the IRA yes, in the thing you actually quoted above. Bit different to where you said he continues to praise the IRA.

Continually praised. Read the links. And no he has never condemned the IRA. Just bombings by more than just them.

So you got the link you kept saying didn't exist. There are many more. How about making a comment about it as you were loud enough about it not being true.

 

[Liquid Gold]

What I don't understand is why 'undecided' voters seem to be so much more critical of Corbyn

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Consider what you like. But it wasn't just a comment. He was a part of the propaganda for the IRA. Have you read the links?

I understand how the IRA come about. But it isn't an excuse for the direction they took. Countless innocent women and children were murdered. This doesn't sit with me well at all. And we could have someone that was involved with them as our next PM within the next 24 hours.

The problem is that the Tories are not much better.

It is like the USA elections. We have the choice between an undesirable or someone even worse.

Yes and our armed forces and the UVF murdered people on the other side. There were no 'good guys' in that conflict.

 

[Grendel]

amazing that this tax changes and changes to the corporation tax come under so much scrutiny but we're all supposed to accept that cuts to vital services are a necessary evil and we shouldn't question them too much.
Class sizes rising to 35-40, fine.
Loss of 20,000 police officers, fine.
Implementation of the Naylor report, fine.

Rise in corporation tax, changes to private school tax exemption, right wing melt down.

We're slowly becoming an apartheid state, but segregation will be based on wealth rather than race. Some people will be happy to sit in their gated communities counting their money, they were in South Africa, and to a lesser extent, they are in the States but that's not the sort of society I want to live in. Where poor people are denied health care and education and are suppose to be grateful to their overlords for a zero hour contract with no workers rights.

And I'm accused of making unfounded exaggerated statements.

 

[Grendel]

Has nobody even made the consideration that he called and IRA fighter brave in order to build bridges. He attended funerals because he knew there would be influential republicans there and it would be an opportunity to start a dialogue. You know, the dialogue that resulted in a ceasefire and then a peace agreement.

No as he was a pip squeak politician with no influence and was a joke even in his own party. Also I repeat he voted against said agreement.

 

[Astute]

What I don't understand is why 'undecided' voters seem to be so much more critical of Corbyn

Maybe something to do with their leader having an involvement of some sort with the IRA and his No.2 being an IRA sympathiser.

 

[clint van damme]

And I'm accused of making unfounded exaggerated statements.

so where do you think our society will end up if we keep going down the road it's going?

Massive parallels with what's happened/happening in the States.

 

[Astute]

Yes and our armed forces and the UVF murdered people on the other side. There were no 'good guys' in that conflict.

Definitely correct. They were horrible days. Those of us who are old enough will remember it well. Those who are too young to know or remember won't have a clue.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Maybe something to do with their leader having an involvement of some sort with the IRA and his No.2 being an IRA sympathiser.

It doesn't seem very undecided to only be critical of one side though does it?

 

[Astute]

so where do you think our society will end up if we keep going down the road it's going?

Massive parallels with what's happened/happening in the States.

That is why I say that none of them are worthy of my vote.

 

[Grendel]

It doesn't seem very undecided to only be critical of one side though does it?

Not really. They've already decided but wing say. It's why the polls are impossible to be accurate now.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

he has never condemned the IRA.

He has, I shared the quotes on this very thread when you said this first time!

 

[Astute]

It doesn't seem very undecided to only be critical of one side though does it?

Look at this thread. It isn't as one sided as you say. But the bigger questions have been asked about Corbyn. And there has been no satisfactory reply. The Labour MP's didn't want him as their leader. All you had to do was pay £3 to get a vote. Record numbers joined. The 200/1 shot won. The one with the dodgy past. Lots of ammo for the others to use.

It seems that the days of debating what actually matter have gone.

 

[Joy Division]

Continually praised. Read the links. And no he has never condemned the IRA. Just bombings by more than just them.

So you got the link you kept saying didn't exist. There are many more. How about making a comment about it as you were loud enough about it not being true.

Your links aren't backing up what you are saying though which is the problem.

 

[Astute]

He has, I shared the quotes on this very thread when you said this first time!

Show me where he has condemned the IRA. He simply hasn't. Qhen pressurised he condemned all bombings. When pressurised even more it was bombings of more than just the IRA.

 

[Astute]

Your links aren't backing up what you are saying though which is the problem.

Bollocks. Or are you just reading what you want?

 

[Grendel]

He has, I shared the quotes on this very thread when you said this first time!

Sigh

Only as he had to - he even tried to sell Adams biography

Look I know Corbyn McDonnell and other ghastly ogres from the 80's like Hatton and Livingstone.

Oddly enough I and many others form a judgement not from the press but from actual recollections of the past.

I don't believe his condemnation, he and his chum wanted IRA victory, they joked about dying Tories, they laughed at Tebbits disabled wife with on your bike jokes so I think he is a liar

 

[clint van damme]

Show me where he has condemned the IRA. He simply hasn't. Qhen pressurised he condemned all bombings. When pressurised even more it was bombings of more than just the IRA.

Maybe he thinks to condemn just IRA murders would sound like he was justifying loyalist murders, or is that OK?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What I don't understand is why 'undecided' voters seem to be so much more critical of Corbyn

Because voting Tory is bad, but the alternative is also shit.

People want an excuse not to vote Tory, Labour just aren't really giving it to them.

If this thread was pro Conservative rather than pro Labour I am sure you would see more criticism from the neutrals such as me and @Astute in that direction.

I think in my environment I have been around much more Labour supporters, but it isn't anything personal, I criticse both. I'm just at a loss with it all really.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Look at this thread. It isn't as one sided as you say. But the bigger questions have been asked about Corbyn. And there has been no satisfactory reply. The Labour MP's didn't want him as their leader. All you had to do was pay £3 to get a vote. Record numbers joined. The 200/1 shot won. The one with the dodgy past. Lots of ammo for the others to use.

It seems that the days of debating what actually matter have gone.

Bu the people defending Corbyn are self proclaimed Labour voters. I don't think he's perfect but will defend him as I believe he's much better than the alternatives. All I'm asking is why there has been so little criticism of May by those who say they're undecided. You might say that it's because that's being done by the Labour voters but, to be, that doesn't show a lot of critical analysis.

At least this shit show will be over tomorrow.

 

[Astute]

I can see we are getting nowhere. Seems like some will defend Corbyn whatever.

Would anyone like to put their name to saying he would make a good PM and that they don't have a problem with his past?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Because voting Tory is bad, but the alternative is also shit.

People want an excuse not to vote Tory, Labour just aren't really giving it to them.

If this thread was pro Conservative rather than pro Labour I am sure you would see more criticism from the neutrals such as me and @astu

Ok that's a fair answer.

I just don't see who protecting the NHS, police, schools and cutting out of foreign intervention that causes terror is enough of a motivation. You also have to remember that if Corbyn became PM it would only be as part of a coalition or minority government. Something that will require compromise and negotiation with other. Surely that's a positive.

 

[clint van damme]

And I'm accused of making unfounded exaggerated statements.

An exaggerated statement that is pretty much backed up by this report from Credit Suisse in 2014:

https://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/?fileID=60931FDE-A2D2-F568-B041B58C5EA591A4

an extract:

"
Because income and wealth inequalities rose so much, fewer families were able to qualify to borrow huge sums of money to buy a home. Despite fewer mortgagees, but because of ever larger mortgages, coupled with the rising credit card and other borrowings of the rest of the population, household debts have risen to record levels.


The UK did not just see debt grow, it also had the second largest growth worldwide in million-dollar-wealth households between 2013 and 2014. Almost 500,000 people tipped over that wealth bracket in those 12 months, mostly from sitting in property that was rising in value in London. This was a 30.5% increase in millionaires in a year, compared with a 14.5% rise in France, 14.1% in Germany and 13% in the US. The UK is out of step."

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Btw, just want to make a point. Does anyone here actually think dialogue with Isis will work?

 

[Astute]

Bu the people defending Corbyn are self proclaimed Labour voters. I don't think he's perfect but will defend him as I believe he's much better than the alternatives. All I'm asking is why there has been so little criticism of May by those who say they're undecided. You might say that it's because that's being done by the Labour voters but, to be, that doesn't show a lot of critical analysis.

At least this shit show will be over tomorrow.

How about as the post above yours? Start a pro Tory thread. I could fill it by myself with the problems I have with them. This one has been pro Labour defending the undefendable.

 

[Joy Division]

Bollocks. Or are you just reading what you want?

You are ignoring what you want.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I can see we are getting nowhere. Seems like some will defend Corbyn whatever.

Would anyone like to put their name to saying he would make a good PM and that they don't have a problem with his past?

I think more has been made of his past than is there and he would make a better PM than the other candidate.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Ok that's a fair answer.

I just don't see who protecting the NHS, police, schools and cutting out of foreign intervention that causes terror is enough of a motivation. You also have to remember that if Corbyn became PM it would only be as part of a coalition or minority government. Something that will require compromise and negotiation with other. Surely that's a positive.

I agree with you, and it is very tempting to vote Labour. I just don't think they are strong enough.

I think people feel slightly more nervous at voting for Corbyn and Labour and will therefore vote for May by default as her party is the only one that could stop them getting in.

If it was up to me I would vote for the best bits of all parties, but I can't have my cake and eat it sadly.

 

[Astute]

An exaggerated statement that is pretty much backed up by this report from Credit Suisse in 2014:

https://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/?fileID=60931FDE-A2D2-F568-B041B58C5EA591A4

an extract:

"
Because income and wealth inequalities rose so much, fewer families were able to qualify to borrow huge sums of money to buy a home. Despite fewer mortgagees, but because of ever larger mortgages, coupled with the rising credit card and other borrowings of the rest of the population, household debts have risen to record levels.


The UK did not just see debt grow, it also had the second largest growth worldwide in million-dollar-wealth households between 2013 and 2014. Almost 500,000 people tipped over that wealth bracket in those 12 months, mostly from sitting in property that was rising in value in London. This was a 30.5% increase in millionaires in a year, compared with a 14.5% rise in France, 14.1% in Germany and 13% in the US. The UK is out of step."

We have had the Tories in for too long. It happens each time. Who doesn't know that they look after their own and don't care about the rest of us?