The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (39 Viewers)

[Astute]

Yes, to remind him. Real wages have contracted because of inflation, and unemployment is forecast to have risen in June and the trend is expected to continue.

Any chance of you keeping to the truth?

The jobless total has fallen to 4.5%. The lowest for 42 years. The amount of people in work is the highest since records began in 1971.

Wages are so low partly because of the influx of people. But you are never going to admit this

Mass migration driving down wages offered to British jobseekers

 

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[Astute]

We don't have open borders, you go through passport control. Also, an EU national has 3 months to find a job before the country has the power to deport them.

Open to anyone who looks like they are from the EU

 

[Astute]

Our parliament ratified the treaties. We have a parliamentary democracy. Our parliament passes all laws and they evolve constantly. According to your argument we never voted on any of our laws because a referendum wasn't held on each law.

We now have more trade with Europe and more people in work than ever before in our history. The EU seems to have been a great help to get us to this point. If we close the borders to pre 1993 conditions, I suspect we would decline from this position..

Lots of jobs= well done the EU

Low pay= nothing to do with the EU

 

[clint van damme]

I've already listed the numerous lies the remain campaign told on here. The motivation for a lot of remain voters was not a love of the EU but a fear based on statements of economic meltdown immediately after the decision to leave was made.

My main motivator for voting remain was a total distrust of the tories to deliver a successful Brexit. I've seen nothing to alter that opinion.

And although economic meltdown is a bit strong the economy is definitely struggling, whether that is a result of brexit or not will be debated ad nauseum on here no doubt.

 

[Sick Boy]

Open to anyone who looks like they are from the EU

I'm flying back on an Irish passport next week, not having to go through passport control is going to be a huge bonus. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[clint van damme]

Lots of jobs= well done the EU

Low pay= nothing to do with the EU

the fact that no other EU country has seen such a decrease in earnings would suggest that the second statement is correct.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

You also claimed that the right was growing rapidly in Germany and that Merkel was extremely unpopular. AfD got 6% in the latest state election and is at 9% in the polls. Merkel's party is 17 points in front of their nearest challengers. So I think it may be that you base your judgements on the people you associate with in your bubble and therefore your opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Yes of course it is the case that some of my judgements are made based on the people I meet, do business with and socialise with in Germany, Italy and many other countries. So what? Isn’t that human nature?

Does that make my judgements any less valid than say yours, which are no doubt also influenced by the people you associate with, that is to say the blokes you talk to in the German pub you run?

I haven't got a problem with that but I imagine you will accept that your opinions should also be taken with a appropriately measured pinch of salt?

 

[Sick Boy]

Nice to see @SIR ERNIE taking advantage of freedom of movement, while voting to deny other generations the same rights.

 

[Astute]

We don't have open borders, you go through passport control. Also, an EU national has 3 months to find a job before the country has the power to deport them.

So how many get removed after 3 months? They don't even know who has been here for more than 3 months without working.

But I don't see why anyone should be kicked out after 3 months without working anyway. But it is a different matter if someone only comes for the benefits.

And on the subject of benefits....why should someone be able to claim child benefit for children who were not born here and don't live here? And why should they keep them even if the whole family leaves the UK?

 

[Astute]

Our parliament ratified the treaties. We have a parliamentary democracy. Our parliament passes all laws and they evolve constantly. According to your argument we never voted on any of our laws because a referendum wasn't held on each law.

We now have more trade with Europe and more people in work than ever before in our history. The EU seems to have been a great help to get us to this point. If we close the borders to pre 1993 conditions, I suspect we would decline from this position..

Borders will only close if the EU want them to....as in punishment for us wanting to leave the EU. Tariffs will only be charged if the EU says so....for punishment for us leaving.

The EU don't want us to leave. They get too much money off us for them to replace easily. And after paying out many billions each year we buy much more from the EU than we sell to it.

 

[Kingokings204]

Surely the EU will miss our money?

 

[martcov]

Yes of course it is the case that some of my judgements are made based on the people I meet, do business with and socialise with in Germany, Italy and many other countries. So what? Isn’t that human nature?

Does that make my judgements any less valid than say yours, which are no doubt also influenced by the people you associate with, that is to say the blokes you talk to in the German pub you run?

I haven't got a problem with that but I imagine you will accept that your opinions should also be taken with a appropriately measured pinch of salt?

The difference being that I quoted statistics to back my point up. Actually I am not in the pub that often as I have another business, and I tend to keep off religion and politics when there is alcohol about....;-) My staff do.
the service in the pub....they are younger and better looking than me...

 

[SIR ERNIE]

The difference being that I quoted statistics to back my point up. Actually I am not in the pub that often as I have another business, and I tend to keep off religion and politics when there is alcohol about....;-) My staff do.
the service in the pub....they are younger and better looking than me...

Whooaa!!!! had to stop myself there. For the first time ever I almost gave your post a 'like'.

 

[martcov]

Borders will only close if the EU want them to....as in punishment for us wanting to leave the EU. Tariffs will only be charged if the EU says so....for punishment for us leaving.

The EU don't want us to leave. They get too much money off us for them to replace easily. And after paying out many billions each year we buy much more from the EU than we sell to it.

Pre 1993 there were long queues at the borders and loads of paperwork ( I was talking about goods and services...not people ). That tended to slow down trade and was costly for all parties. The customs union has made trade a lot easier and trade has therefore grown enormously.

The EU has repeatedly said they don't want us to leave and the door is always open to stop Brexit.

I don't think the EU and the ideas behind it are purely monetary.

We paid in and got more out of being a member than by not being a member, which is why most MPs were remain. If that were not the case, we would have been long gone.

The people who were for leaving were people like Farage and the right of the Tory party and that wasn't just about economics. And yes, Tony Benn and his fan Corbyn were also against the Common Market, but for other reasons than nationalism.

If there is a sort of trade war, it won't be purely to punish us. It will be retaliation by one side or the other. Spiteful punishment for the sake of it won't happen. That is what people with no financial interests would want. Both sides have to live with one another and any tit for tat would be to force a deal, not to punish someone..

The EU has made it clear that a non member won't have better conditions than a member. That isn't punishment, it is justifying membership for the other members.

 

[martcov]

Whooaa!!!! had to stop myself there. For the first time ever I almost gave your post a 'like'.

Lucky you didn't...I don't need a heart attack caused by shock....

 

[martcov]

Surely the EU will miss our money?

No doubt. And we will miss some trade and our financial services which were our strength and a good earner.

 

[martcov]

So how many get removed after 3 months? They don't even know who has been here for more than 3 months without working.

But I don't see why anyone should be kicked out after 3 months without working anyway. But it is a different matter if someone only comes for the benefits.

And on the subject of benefits....why should someone be able to claim child benefit for children who were not born here and don't live here? And why should they keep them even if the whole family leaves the UK?

I thought that child allowance is a sort of tax credit and is paid in the country where you are paying tax, not where your children are living.

No doubt there is abuse, or more like people using the system legally, but not in the spirit of the law. That would be where there is a difference in the cost of living between where you work and where your kids live.

The Germans have this problem and were supposedly working with Cameron on a solution until Brexit.

Benefit tourism is a theme in Germany. It is not as if the EU isn't aware of this. Germany misses Britain as an ally in these things ( read that the other day ). The poorest countries are probably quite happy with the system as it brings money into their economies.

 

[martcov]

Any chance of you keeping to the truth?

The jobless total has fallen to 4.5%. The lowest for 42 years. The amount of people in work is the highest since records began in 1971.

Wages are so low partly because of the influx of people. But you are never going to admit this

Mass migration driving down wages offered to British jobseekers

Jobless just risen in June and predicted to rise in July. Albeit by a small percentage....for now. Trend expected to continue as inflation cuts in...

 

[Sick Boy]

So how many get removed after 3 months? They don't even know who has been here for more than 3 months without working.

But I don't see why anyone should be kicked out after 3 months without working anyway. But it is a different matter if someone only comes for the benefits.

And on the subject of benefits....why should someone be able to claim child benefit for children who were not born here and don't live here? And why should they keep them even if the whole family leaves the UK?

As we've discussed before, that's the Uk's fault and not the EU's. If other EU countries can manage it, why can't the UK?

How wold they be supporting themselves if they weren't working for 3 months?

 

[Astute]

I thought that child allowance is a sort of tax credit and is paid in the country where you are paying tax, not where your children are living.

You are allowed to claim it where you want. Once claimed the payments continue even if you never visit the country again. It costs us over 20m a year IIRC.

 

[Astute]

Jobless just risen in June and predicted to rise in July. Albeit by a small percentage....for now. Trend expected to continue as inflation cuts in...

No it didn't. I quoted the June figures.

 

[Sick Boy]

You are allowed to claim it where you want. Once claimed the payments continue even if you never visit the country again. It costs us over 20m a year IIRC.

What's that got to do with the EU?

 

[Astute]

As we've discussed before, that's the Uk's fault and not the EU's. If other EU countries can manage it, why can't the UK?

How wold they be supporting themselves if they weren't working for 3 months?

Thieving for one :shy:

 

[Sick Boy]

Thieving for one :shy:

Debate in the gutter #43,322

 

[martcov]

You are allowed to claim it where you want. Once claimed the payments continue even if you never visit the country again. It costs us over 20m a year IIRC.

I couldn't claim it in England when my daughter was there at school because she is registered in Germany ( going to school for a year didn't change her residency) and I pay tax in Germany. I couldn't claim in the UK as a German taxpayer. You can only claim in one country. There was no point anyway as in the case of Germany there is not much difference in the child allowance to the UK.

The difference is with e.g. Rumanians etc.. Then I see why they are doing it, and yes that should be reformed so that if they are entitled to it, it should be paid at the rate where the child lives as that is linked more to what the child actually needs - not that they make a profit on the deal.

 

[martcov]

No it didn't. I quoted the June figures.

Well I saw otherwise- can't check now, but the figures I saw a couple of days ago were the forecast figures and not yet confirmed. I'll look again when I have time..but I know it was reported as going up...

 

[Sick Boy]

I couldn't claim it in England when my daughter was there at school because she is registered in Germany ( going to school for a year didn't change her residency) and I pay tax in Germany. I couldn't claim in the UK as a German taxpayer. You can only claim in one country. There was no point anyway as in the case of Germany there is not much difference in the child allowance to the UK.

The difference is with e.g. Rumanians etc.. Then I see why they are doing it, and yes that should be reformed so that if they are entitled to it, it should be paid at the rate where the child lives as that is linked more to what the child actually needs - not that they make a profit on the deal.

Could the UK not close this loophole themselves?

 

[martcov]

Could the UK not close this loophole themselves?

I don't know, but I read somewhere that Germany was in talks with the UK on this subject ( pre Brexit) to change the ruling. Germany has the same problem as it pays nearly 200€ a month for the first child. That's a lot of money be Rumänien standards- especially if you have several kids living in Romania.

 

[martcov]

No it didn't. I quoted the June figures.

Just checked. You haven't posted the June figures. Mar-May have been released on 12 July according to what I just read. The next official release is in August. I am busy now but you can check/ google my facts again to be sure I haven't misread.

 

[martcov]

Thieving for one :shy:

Any statistics on that?

 

[Grendel]

Any statistics on that?

Why bother? When you start actually looking at statistics many arguments can be diffused. Earlier in this long long thread we were told the NHS would close down without EU workers. So care to estimate out of 1.2 million workers have many are from the EU?

 

[Sick Boy]

Why bother? When you start actually looking at statistics many arguments can be diffused. Earlier in this long long thread we were told the NHS would close down without EU workers. So care to estimate out of 1.2 million workers have many are from the EU?

Ahhhh...yes I forgot that there are British people queuing up to become nurses. What attraction is there to work for such poor pay and in such terrible conditions?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Can you explain how the UK became the 5th largest economies, despite being in the evil EU?

Mark my words...that knd of reasoning in the world of Sales is met with a 'but how well could you have done if...' in an admonishing tone. In other words had we been out of the EU we might have been 2nd

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Sick Boy]

Mark my words...that knd of reasoning in the world of Sales is met with a 'but how well could you have done if...' in an admonishing tone. In other words had we been out of the EU we might have been 2nd

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Rainbows and unicorns comes to mind here.

 

[Grendel]

Ahhhh...yes I forgot that there are British people queuing up to become nurses. What attraction is there to work for such poor pay and in such terrible conditions?

Mmmmm not answering the question though. Out of 1.2 million - how many?