The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (242 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

I don't think that's true at all. The GFA ended 30+ years of terror attacks from terrorists who make ISIS look like amateurs.
Besides, the point is that Brexit will not lead to a break up of the UK. The only party who talk about a hard border with the Republic of Ireland are the EU.

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Wasn't the purpose of Brexit to 'take control of our borders'? I didn't realise that included having an open border with the EU? Leaving the customs union will inevitably lead to a hard border, what else did people expect? Wasn't that the whole point?

My own personal opinion is that Brexit has made reunification of Ireland much more likely in the long-term.

 

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[martcov]

That's bollocks. You show zero understanding of northern Ireland.

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Wouldn't say zero. Have Irish mates and family and they ain't happy. How far are Sinn Fein from control on Northern Ireland ( apart from the ongoing problems of anyone having control)?

Also work with Irish people on and off through the year.

People are moaning about the border question non stop and see it as a British created problem- whether it is enough to tip the scales is hard to say, but is no means sure that the U.K. with Northern Ireland remains as it is.

 

[skybluetony176]

The only party who talk about a hard border with the Republic of Ireland are the EU.

That's not true either. All the rhetoric about a hard border with the EU has come from the Brexit campaign and everyone who insists that they know what they're voted for. And that was a hard border with the EU. When we leave the EU the south of Ireland will still be in the EU therefore to keep the we know what we voted for crew happy there will have to be a hard border between the north and south. Unless of course people didn't know what they voted for. Or at least understand.

 

[martcov]

I don't think that's true at all. The GFA ended 30+ years of terror attacks from terrorists who make ISIS look like amateurs.
Besides, the point is that Brexit will not lead to a break up of the UK. The only party who talk about a hard border with the Republic of Ireland are the EU.

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Ireland is in the EU so whether they like it or not they may have to accept it - but the EU is not to blame for Northern Ireland being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the majority who voted for remain.

Scum like Farage, Grove and Johnson fed the fires that led to a leave majority in the UK as a whole. They, the idiot Cameron who gravely miscalculated, and the Brexiteers are responsible for the possibility of a hard border in Ireland.

No BS about us now being on the side of the Irish against the EU hard border position will convince the Irish that the whole scenario is not a Great British cock up.

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's not true either. All the rhetoric about a hard border with the EU has come from the Brexit campaign and everyone who insists that they know what they're voted for. And that was a hard border with the EU. When we leave the EU the south of Ireland will still be in the EU therefore to keep the we know what we voted for crew happy there will have to be a hard border between the north and south. Unless of course people didn't know what they voted for. Or at least understand.

Who has ever suggested a hard border?

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[martcov]

That's not true either. All the rhetoric about a hard border with the EU has come from the Brexit campaign and everyone who insists that they know what they're voted for. And that was a hard border with the EU. When we leave the EU the south of Ireland will still be in the EU therefore to keep the we know what we voted for crew happy there will have to be a hard border between the north and south. Unless of course people didn't know what they voted for. Or at least understand.

Yes. They wanted to end free movement and leave the customs union. Enjoy. But the people of Northern Ireland voted to remain and ROI are in and weren't consulted before the U.K. referendum about their wishes.

Well well- the same old story Britain does what it wants and Ireland has to put up with it.

I think those days are gone. I wish the Irish all the best and I know Northern Ireland is complicated.. but sometime they have got to do what is best for the whole of Ireland and Britain is now on a different page. The GFA was based on the assumption of all parties being in the EU. Time to work a new agreement out so that the island of Ireland stays in the EU as the majority want.

 

[Sick Boy]

Who has ever suggested a hard border?

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O'Brien is that you?

 

[skybluetony176]

A hard border between the north and the south could very well be the nucleus for a united Ireland and the break up of the Union. The dynamics of the protestant catholic population has been steadily equaling for decades now and there is a lot of both Catholics and protestants who work in the south, especially the border countries. My own protestant family from a border town work almost exclusively in the south and faced with a hard brexit I know first hand many of those are thinking of applying for an Irish passport and ditching their UK one. People think that controlling our borders means we only have to let the best ones in. What makes people think that this doesn't work both ways? I have family genuinely scared that they are facing unemployment because without the freedom of movement they will have no automatic right to work in the south. It's a mess.

 

[skybluetony176]

Who has ever suggested a hard border?

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Is that a serious question?

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's not true either. All the rhetoric about a hard border with the EU has come from the Brexit campaign and everyone who insists that they know what they're voted for. And that was a hard border with the EU. When we leave the EU the south of Ireland will still be in the EU therefore to keep the we know what we voted for crew happy there will have to be a hard border between the north and south. Unless of course people didn't know what they voted for. Or at least understand.

What's all that drivel about? Forget about campaigns. Where has the government suggested a hard border in reality? It's clearly a strong negotiating chip for both sides depending how you look at it. Politically though, I can only see that the EU would enforce a hard border.

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[martcov]

What's all that drivel about? Forget about campaigns. Where has the government suggested a hard border in reality? It's clearly a strong negotiating chip for both sides depending how you look at it. Politically though, I can only see that the EU would enforce a hard border.

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How can the EU not enforce a hard border if we leave the customs union and deny EU citizens the right of free movement? They will reciprocate. As I say, this is an entirely British created problem and I am sorry that Tony's and my relations may have to suffer.

 

[Grendel]

How can the EU not enforce a hard border if we leave the customs union and deny EU citizens the right of free movement? They will reciprocate. As I say, this is an entirely British created problem and I am sorry that Tony's and my relations may have to suffer.

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

 

[skybluetony176]

What's all that drivel about? Forget about campaigns. Where has the government suggested a hard border in reality? It's clearly a strong negotiating chip for both sides depending how you look at it. Politically though, I can only see that the EU would enforce a hard border.

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You should watch the news some time. Who coined the phrase out means out? The PM. Who taking us out the single market? The government. Who's taking out of the customs union? The government. What has the government actually offered/suggested in place of the current open border? A soft border?

If we're not having a hard border does out mean out? If we're not having a hard border why are we leaving the single market and customs union?

Have you ever watched question time and seen members of the panel and a large portion of the audience go mental when someone suggests that we could remain in the single market saying we need to take back control of our borders, out means out, we know what we voted for etc.?

 

[skybluetony176]

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

Switzerland is an EFTA member and has a number of bilateral agreements to gain access to the single market. Including free movement of people from EU member states amongst other things.

 

[martcov]

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

You can get into trouble on the border there. But I haven't been for a while. So not up to date.

 

[martcov]

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

As Tony says, Switzerland has agreements with the EU. We don't. We are leaving the customs union apparently. We voted for this crap. Ask KofK he will explain that everyone knew what they voted for. Only remainers try and imply that the Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for.

Of course they didn't know. No one who voted leave can have known.. or rather no one in mainland U.K. ever gave things such as the Irish border a second thought. Brexit means Brexit, out means out and that's it.

Almighty cock up.

 

[Grendel]

As Tony says, Switzerland has agreements with the EU. We don't. We are leaving the customs union apparently. We voted for this crap. Ask KofK he will explain that everyone knew what they voted for. Only remainers try and imply that the Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for.

Of course they didn't know. No one who voted leave can have known.. or rather no one in mainland U.K. ever gave things such as the Irish border a second thought. Brexit means Brexit, out means out and that's it.

Almighty cock up.

So you have to have an agreement with the EU if you are not in the EU to prevent this border issue arising then?

 

[martcov]

So you have to have an agreement with the EU if you are not in the EU to prevent this border issue arising then?

I would say that without any agreements you are a third party state. If you are a third party state your goods will be treated differently to those of a customs union member. That would mean a hard border with trade and passport controls. Or do you think that the EU has open borders?

 

[martcov]

So you have to have an agreement with the EU if you are not in the EU to prevent this border issue arising then?

Have you ever queued up at a border with a truck load of freight or exhibition material? A colleague who sells clothing on fairs in Switzerland was moaning about the strict controls on what she brings in and the time she spends discussing things st the border. I used to have to have a "carnet de passage" and have it stamped in and out of countries. I had to have an indemnity with the Chamber of Commerce.loads of time lost at borders. That's been done away with, but you guys voted to bring it back. Apparently the UK is working on a Software which will be ready by 2019 and all EU countries will be compatible...., yes.., I am sure it will work... ha ha ha. As I say ... Enjoy..

 

[Sick Boy]

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

No, they have freedom of movement.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Do Switzerland have a hard border?

I travelled from Italy into Switzerland last year and didn't realised I had crossed the border until I got a text from EE welcoming me to the country.

There was an outpost with a couple of guards on the way back, likewise from Switzerland into Germany. Nothing from Switzerland to Lichtenstein though. We also remained completely unchallenged throughout.

 

[Sick Boy]

I travelled from Italy into Switzerland last year and didn't realised I had crossed the border until I got a text from EE welcoming me to the country.

There was an outpost with a couple of guards on the way back, likewise from Switzerland into Germany. Nothing from Switzerland to Lichtenstein though. We also remained completely unchallenged throughout.

Bizarrely, I've crossed from Slovenia into Croatia and been stopped by guards from both countries within 5 seconds worth of driving.

 

[Grendel]

Have you ever queued up at a border with a truck load of freight or exhibition material? A colleague who sells clothing on fairs in Switzerland was moaning about the strict controls on what she brings in and the time she spends discussing things st the border. I used to have to have a "carnet de passage" and have it stamped in and out of countries. I had to have an indemnity with the Chamber of Commerce.loads of time lost at borders. That's been done away with, but you guys voted to bring it back. Apparently the UK is working on a Software which will be ready by 2019 and all EU countries will be compatible...., yes.., I am sure it will work... ha ha ha. As I say ... Enjoy..

So you have to be a member of the EFTA or EEA to have an open border with the EU?

 

[Grendel]

I travelled from Italy into Switzerland last year and didn't realised I had crossed the border until I got a text from EE welcoming me to the country.

There was an outpost with a couple of guards on the way back, likewise from Switzerland into Germany. Nothing from Switzerland to Lichtenstein though. We also remained completely unchallenged throughout.

Exactly my experience.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you have to be a member of the EFTA or EEA to have an open border with the EU?

Switzerland has freedom of movement and is part of the single market.

 

[martcov]

I travelled from Italy into Switzerland last year and didn't realised I had crossed the border until I got a text from EE welcoming me to the country.

There was an outpost with a couple of guards on the way back, likewise from Switzerland into Germany. Nothing from Switzerland to Lichtenstein though. We also remained completely unchallenged throughout.

You weren't bringing goods for sale though..

 

[martcov]

Switzerland had freedom of movement and is part of the single market.

My colleague still has to list what she brings in and what she brings out- but that is for VAT on her sales in Switzerland.. In the EU you pay VAT where you sell the goods. I suppose that works the same in Switzerland ..

 

[Sick Boy]

Great to hear that some on this thread are willing to compromise and retain freedom of movement in exchange for avoiding hard borders.

 

[martcov]

Exactly my experience.

How's that work if you bring a truck load of goods from Russia?

 

[martcov]

Great to hear that some on this thread are willing to compromise and retain freedom of movement in exchange for avoiding hard borders.

The greatest proponents of leaving the EU are the ones that enjoy using the benefits of remaining in it. You cannot make this up.

 

[Grendel]

Switzerland has freedom of movement and is part of the single market.

What about the Isle of Man?

 

[chiefdave]

The ROI didn't join Schengen as the UK wasn't joining and they didn't want a hard border between NI and ROI. The upshot of that is that entering the UK and Ireland has always required passport control. This clearly isn't enough as we were told by the leave campaign that we needed to take back control of our borders. How exactly are we going to do that without a hard border between a non-EU and EU country?

 

[Grendel]

The ROI didn't join Schengen as the UK wasn't joining and they didn't want a hard border between NI and ROI. The upshot of that is that entering the UK and Ireland has always required passport control. This clearly isn't enough as we were told by the leave campaign that we needed to take back control of our borders. How exactly are we going to do that without a hard border between a non-EU and EU country?

How does the Isle of Man manage it?

 

[chiefdave]

How does the Isle of Man manage it?

Hasn't been decided yet has it? As with ROI they have said they don't want a hard border but if we're 'taking control of our borders' as promised then they'll have to have a hard border.

 

[Grendel]

Hasn't been decided yet has it? As with ROI they have said they don't want a hard border but if we're 'taking control of our borders' as promised then they'll have to have a hard border.

The Isle of Man arent and never have been in the EU and couldn't vote in the referendum could they?