The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I was more concerned about suppression of wages for the 20% of the workforce with the lowest qualifications, combined with which I want the benefits culture to be driven back. I say if you are capable of work then you should work & contribute to society or pay your own way and not get state handouts for year after year.

I'm interested in how leaving the EU will improve wage suppression? That is the issue you need to resolve to solve the second issue you mention as we have record numbers of people in work still requiring benefits to survive.

This government has overseen the biggest transfer of wealth to those at the top in history. Not sure leaving the EU is going to make them do a 180 on that, although May does seem to be doing a lot of 180s so you never know.

 

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[Astute]

Farage is a bigot, as well as a hypocrite, that's undeniable. He's the last man who should be anywhere near the negotiations, I'd even keep boris there ahead of him.
What is he going to hold the EU to account for? Whatever your view of the EU this isn't time for anyone to hold anyone to account, this is a time for grown up negotiations to try and get the best deal possible that is acceptable to both parties.

Juncker is the one we need to be kept away from negotiations. There is growing unrest in every country in the EU. He wants us to have a hard time to show everyone else what happens when you have the nerve to leave.

 

[clint van damme]

Juncker is the one we need to be kept away from negotiations. There is growing unrest in every country in the EU. He wants us to have a hard time to show everyone else what happens when you have the nerve to leave.

The day junker addresses a far right rally in Germany I might agree with you.

 

[Astute]

True, but wage contraction is appalling and growth is poor compared to other G7 countries,(though there is still economic growth).
I've said it before, the economic indicators are very mixed at the moment and I don't think they currently point in any particular direction with regard to the health of the economy.

It isn't the fault of Brexit. We haven't recovered from the banking crisis yet. It is the artificially low interest rates that are causing it.

What we do have is an influx of people who are happy to work on what is considered to be a low wage here. But where they come from they can earn more in a week here than they would earn in a month where they come from.

Since Brexit our economy has done much better than expected. This is because of the lies we were told. We were supposed to have millions more unemployed by now. But what we have is record employment. House prices were supposed to have crashed. But as we are still in the EU our population is still soaring. So over demand for housing is getting worse.

 

[Astute]

The day junker addresses a far right rally in Germany I might agree with you.

Name something good about him?

 

[Sick Boy]

Farage is a disgrace to this country and is nothing other an opportunistic bigot.

 

[Astute]

I'm interested in how leaving the EU will improve wage suppression? That is the issue you need to resolve to solve the second issue you mention as we have record numbers of people in work still requiring benefits to survive.

This government has overseen the biggest transfer of wealth to those at the top in history. Not sure leaving the EU is going to make them do a 180 on that, although May does seem to be doing a lot of 180s so you never know.

Did the wage suppression start when we voted to leave or had it been going on for years?

Over supply of workers has not helped at all.

 

[Astute]

Farage is a disgrace to this country and is nothing other an opportunistic bigot.

Most of us agree.

Juncker is a disgrace to the EU. But many make excuses up for him.

 

[Grendel]

Farage is a disgrace to this country and is nothing other an opportunistic bigot.

So are Corbyn and McDonnell - the difference is one is on the fringe of politics and the other two aren't.

 

[Sick Boy]

Did the wage suppression start when we voted to leave or had it been going on for years?

Over supply of workers has not helped at all.

The country is reliant on those workers and it is unlikely actual migration will substantially fall. Isn't unemployment supposed to be at its lowest?

What incentives will there be for wages to rise outside of the EU? If you expect wages to actual start increasing, you're going to end up disappointed.

 

[Sick Boy]

So are Corbyn and McDonnell - the difference is one is on the fringe of politics and the other two aren't.

What a surprise you are deflecting away from your Nigel.

 

[Sick Boy]

Most of us agree.

Juncker is a disgrace to the EU. But many make excuses up for him.

Where has anyone on this thread made excuses for him? We see plenty of deflection away from Farage though.

 

[Grendel]

What a surprise you are deflecting away from your Nigel.

I'm not as he's an irrelevance. Corbyn and McDonnell revere countries that would throw them in the gulag if they behaved how they do here.

 

[Astute]

Where has anyone on this thread made excuses for him?

Very frequently.

 

[Astute]

The country is reliant on those workers and it is unlikely actual migration will substantially fall. Isn't unemployment supposed to be at its lowest?

What incentives will there be for wages to rise outside of the EU? If you expect wages to actual start increasing, you're going to end up disappointed.

Unemployment isn't at its lowest. But employment is at its highest.

 

[Sick Boy]

Unemployment isn't at its lowest. But employment is at its highest.

UK unemployment at lowest level since 1975 - but prices rise faster than pay

That's from the Telegraph, so can't be accused of socialist propaganda.

 

[chiefdave]

We haven't recovered from the banking crisis yet.

Yet the Conservatives tell us the economy recovered to pre-crisis levels in early 2014.

 

[clint van damme]

Name something good about him?

He doesn't address far right rallies.

 

[clint van damme]

It isn't the fault of Brexit. We haven't recovered from the banking crisis yet. It is the artificially low interest rates that are causing it.

What we do have is an influx of people who are happy to work on what is considered to be a low wage here. But where they come from they can earn more in a week here than they would earn in a month where they come from.

Since Brexit our economy has done much better than expected. This is because of the lies we were told. We were supposed to have millions more unemployed by now. But what we have is record employment. House prices were supposed to have crashed. But as we are still in the EU our population is still soaring. So over demand for housing is getting worse.

I don't actually agree with that, nor do I agree that it is struggling, as I said, there are mixed indicators and I don't think anyone can say for sure how this will pan out.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Farage is a bigot, as well as a hypocrite, that's undeniable. He's the last man who should be anywhere near the negotiations, I'd even keep boris there ahead of him.
What is he going to hold the EU to account for? Whatever your view of the EU this isn't time for anyone to hold anyone to account, this is a time for grown up negotiations to try and get the best deal possible that is acceptable to both parties.

Agreed. So why can't it be that way?

 

[clint van damme]

Agreed. So why can't it be that way?

well it doesn't help when one of the negotiating team is manoeuvring himself into position for a crack at his party's leadership.
To be fair to Boris, he has achieved the impossible, he's actually made me feel a pang of sympathy for the PM and the rest of the negotiating team who are probably trying to do the best they can for the country, (as much as I don't think they're capable), while trying to contain his monstrous ego and ambition which appears to far outweigh his actual talent.

 

[Sick Boy]

Agreed. So why can't it be that way?

You'd need to ask the government that question!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

His claims during the referendum debate suggest otherwise.


However you also get people such as kingofkings saying nonsensical things such as 'Brexit means Brexit' and that everybody knew they were voting for a hard Brexit when they went to the polls. This too, stymies debate, and silences not just the more moderate outers, but the more moderate remainers too. As with, well... just about everything, there's probably a consensus to be had in the moderate areas of both parties, where pragmatism takes over, and a culture of trying to work with the EU comes into play and deals are made because they're as good as they're likely to get, not because of ideological dictat. That, then, allows for a 'better' deal going forward as people aren't working against one another, and aren't polarised. Push people into corners, they bite against things.

I made this point last week but it got ignored. People originally said remain was the safe bet, and was generally regarded as the status quo. Junker's speech last week really indicates that the future of the EU may not be that at all. Surely by that, everyone that voted remain didn't know what they were voting for either?

It's nonsense really. I think when people voted to leave or remain it was just that, to leave or remain for whatever reasons they had. People on the losing side now generally want to hold all leave voters to account by getting them to do the negotiations for the government. No one can tell you the specifics and incy wincy details of the next 300 years, they can only tell you what they want at the end of it.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You'd need to ask the government that question!

I'm not talking about the government so much. More the people that didn't really like the result so pretend to care that they want the best outcome, but in reality just want to derail the whole thing (aimed at no one in particular).

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm not talking about the government so much. More the people that didn't really like the result so pretend to care that they want the best outcome, but in reality just want to derail the whole thing (aimed at no one in particular).

Like who?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Like who?

Probably about 25% of the population at present!

 

[Sick Boy]

Probably about 25% of the population at present!

How on earth are they actually derailing talks?!!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

How on earth are they actually derailing talks?!!

Derailing Brexit.

You really think that's not been happening?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Derailing Brexit.

You really think that's not been happening?

tbh, I'd say the likes of Johnson are derailing it more... along with the government's high-handed approach.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

tbh, I'd say the likes of Johnson are derailing it more... along with the government's high-handed approach.

Oh, I agree with you on that certainly. I wouldn't say they are derailing it more though.

 

[Astute]

UK unemployment at lowest level since 1975 - but prices rise faster than pay

That's from the Telegraph, so can't be accused of socialist propaganda.

So you have just proved me right and you wrong.

 

[Astute]

Yet the Conservatives tell us the economy recovered to pre-crisis levels in early 2014.

The Tories will tell you any crap to get your vote. House prices are lower in many places than before the crash. Interest rates are artificially at an historic low. When they finally go up millions will suffer. But they will have to go up because of inflation.

 

[Astute]

He doesn't address far right rallies.

And that is it?

That means May and Boris are OK then because neither do they.

 

[Astute]

tbh, I'd say the likes of Johnson are derailing it more... along with the government's high-handed approach.

Juncker isn't helping anything. He is a self centred twat. If he wasn't constantly coming out with what he does there would be no need for any replies like we are getting.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Be worth every penny for the shambolic Tories to own this massive fuck up!!

Still, it was hardly as embarrassing as your absurd sneering of a Tory landslide and the end of Labour.

Like SISU, they probably intended to lose :smuggrin: