Oh Jeremy Corbyn (4 Viewers)

[skybluegod]

If it's the will of the people, then what's the problem?

So what we just keep voting till we get to a decision that you are happy with?

 

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[skybluegod]

Yep, agree with most of this. Fox hunting ffs, what were they thinking? I'd add that I think the brexit referendum was also motivated by nicking ukip's votes in 2015. I agree with brexit, not be cause I'm selfish but because I believe it is best for everyone (UK and Europe). But that doesn't change what motivated Cameron to offer the referendum.

Agree with that, no doubt the whole thing came about because Cameron wanted the UKIP vote but also fair play to him for giving the people what they wanted.
I personally voted remain. But if the vote was ever to be redone just because people are moaning about it, I would vote leave because I don’t think you can just keep voting on something until one side backs down and stops complaining.

 

[Sick Boy]

So what we just keep voting till we get to a decision that you are happy with?

No, but IF there is significant evidence that a large proportion of the population are against it, there should be the option.

 

[skybluegod]

If it's the will of the people, then what's the problem?

 

[skybluegod]

No, but IF there is significant evidence that a large proportion of the population are against it, there should be the option.

But where does this evidence come from though? Clearly people’s opinions are going to be altered by a faltering economy right now? With many not being able to look beyond the foreseeable future. Their actual opinion may be different but if their money is tight then their hand might be forced for example.
My opinion is, we don’t need the EU and leaving it will be good in the long term. However at the time of the vote I didn’t think our economy would be able to handle a leave vote so soon after the crash. Which so far has been proven right. But now that we have already done that damage, what is the point in undoing all of that? We will have spent 2 years preparing for brexit only for it to be undone by people who are on the fence if that makes sense?
The economy won’t recover miraculously if we decide to stay, just like it won’t once we leave of course, but maybe it will be better if we leave? And I for one would prefer to stick with brexit now

 

[Sick Boy]

But where does this evidence come from though? Clearly people’s opinions are going to be altered by a faltering economy right now? With many not being able to look beyond the foreseeable future. Their actual opinion may be different but if their money is tight then their hand might be forced for example.
My opinion is, we don’t need the EU and leaving it will be good in the long term. However at the time of the vote I didn’t think our economy would be able to handle a leave vote so soon after the crash. Which so far has been proven right. But now that we have already done that damage, what is the point in undoing all of that? We will have spent 2 years preparing for brexit only for it to be undone by people who are on the fence if that makes sense?
The economy won’t recover miraculously if we decide to stay, just like it won’t once we leave of course, but maybe it will be better if we leave? And I for one would prefer to stick with brexit now

I don't mean if people are on the fence, but if it becomes evident that more people have moved against it and a deal with the EU looks unlikely.

 

[torchomatic]

I don’t see your point? You are blaming the conservatives for overseeing the will of the people?
How dare they uphold democracy!
Yes it might have been marginal brexit. But 52% still voted for it. It’s the will of the people at the end of the day.

Let's be clear. Cameron only had the vote because he presumed the majority would vote to stay in the EU.

 

[Grendel]

If it's the will of the people, then what's the problem?

Should France have a new election as macron is now unpopular? Perhaps we should have a vote every week for a year and see who wins. Best of 52.

 

[Grendel]

Let's be clear. Cameron only had the vote because he presumed the majority would vote to stay in the EU.

No he did it to stop a ukip surge in the polls

 

[chiefdave]

Garbage - have you read that manifesto?

Remember Cameron's contract with voters? How much of that did he stick to?
Apologies for posting from AAV but it seems to have been removed from the Conservative website.

 

[Grendel]

I don't mean if people are on the fence, but if it becomes evident that more people have moved against it and a deal with the EU looks unlikely.

Then the lib dens will win the next election - sorted

 

[torchomatic]

Agree with that, no doubt the whole thing came about because Cameron wanted the UKIP vote but also fair play to him for giving the people what they wanted.
I personally voted remain. But if the vote was ever to be redone just because people are moaning about it, I would vote leave because I don’t think you can just keep voting on something until one side backs down and stops complaining.

The problem was people didn't know what they were voting for. There was rhetoric on both sides but the £350M bus thing was a lie. And I can't remember Boris et al saying we'd have to pay billions to leave. Funny that.

 

[Grendel]

The problem was people didn't know what they were voting for. There was rhetoric on both sides but the £250 bus thing was a lie. And I can't remember Boris et al saying we'd have to pay billions to leave. Funny that.

As above then Lib dems will win the election and the will of the people to apparently have a new referendum will be granted.

 

[torchomatic]

No he did it to stop a ukip surge in the polls

Make up your mind. Before the edit you said it was to get the UKIP vote. He did it to shut up the back benchers once and for all AND because he presumed he would get the result he wanted. Remain.

 

[torchomatic]

As above then Lib dems will win the election and the will of the people to apparently have a new referendum will be granted.

So what? Now that people know what a total fucking mess Brexit is maybe they'll change their mind. What's the problem?

 

[skybluegod]

The problem was people didn't know what they were voting for. There was rhetoric on both sides but the £250 bus thing was a lie. And I can't remember Boris et al saying we'd have to pay billions to leave. Funny that.

Isn’t that people’s fault for believing them? The remain campaigners all told them that we would have to pay to leave and that the £350 million to NHS was bogus. But people choose what they want to believe?

 

[skybluegod]

So what? Now that people know what a total fucking mess Brexit is maybe they'll change their mind. What's the problem?

Well brexit hasn’t happened yet so people don’t know it’s a fucking mess, maybe once we have left we can go back grovelling to the EU and then they can shaft us some more?
It’s strange people asking for a second referendum when neither of biggest parties have even hinted at calling for it. What was the point in having a referendum in the first place if we were just going to have another one a couple years later... we all knew that the economy would decline while negotiations took place

 

[clint van damme]

Well brexit hasn’t happened yet so people don’t know it’s a fucking mess, maybe once we have left we can go back grovelling to the EU and then they can shaft us some more?
It’s strange people asking for a second referendum when neither of biggest parties have even hinted at calling for it. What was the point in having a referendum in the first place if we were just going to have another one a couple years later... we all knew that the economy would decline while negotiations took place

as some one who voted remain I agree with much of your post, the vote has been cast and we must go through the process, I personally don't agree with a 2nd referendum.
Do disagree with your first sentence though, it is quite clearly a mess and getting messier.

 

[Sick Boy]

Should France have a new election as macron is now unpopular? Perhaps we should have a vote every week for a year and see who wins. Best of 52.

There is a major different between the two, as you well know.

I still think we should split the country 52%/48%.You'd then have the problem of trying to prevent emigration.

 

[Grendel]

So what? Now that people know what a total fucking mess Brexit is maybe they'll change their mind. What's the problem?

Then they'll vote for the party that offers a second referendum - what's the problem with that?

 

[skybluegod]

as some one who voted remain I agree with much of your post, the vote has been cast and we must go through the process, I personally don't agree with a 2nd referendum.
Do disagree with your first sentence though, it is quite clearly a mess and getting messier.

No brexit isn’t a mess because the leaving of the EU hasn’t happened yet. The reason it is a mess is confidence in the economy is down, because nothing has actually changed because of brexit yet other than the fact that we are leaving in 18 months time. Yes the economy is a mess I will admit to that, and the British government is a mess, but technically brexit we can’t judge until the day we leave

 

[Captain Dart]

Yep, agree with most of this. Fox hunting ffs, what were they thinking? I'd add that I think the brexit referendum was also motivated by nicking ukip's votes in 2015. I agree with brexit, not be cause I'm selfish but because I believe it is best for everyone (UK and Europe). But that doesn't change what motivated Cameron to offer the referendum.

I think he was appeasing some elements of his own party too, e.g. Gove & Davies.

 

[Captain Dart]

No, but IF there is significant evidence that a large proportion of the population are against it, there should be the option.

Excellent, leaving the EU will make it easier for the government to follow the will of the people, just what you want. enguin:

 

[clint van damme]

No brexit isn’t a mess because the leaving of the EU hasn’t happened yet. The reason it is a mess is confidence in the economy is down, because nothing has actually changed because of brexit yet other than the fact that we are leaving in 18 months time. Yes the economy is a mess I will admit to that, and the British government is a mess, but technically brexit we can’t judge until the day we leave

the main reason I think it's a mess is because I didn't quite realise how entwined in the EU we are/were, I don't think a lot of people did and it is becoming clear to me that we won't be going round the world signing ground breaking trade deals with all and sundry. I admit, it may be too early to make that judgement but that's what it is starting to look like to me.

 

[Grendel]

the main reason I think it's a mess is because I didn't quite realise how entwined in the EU we are/were, I don't think a lot of people did and it is becoming clear to me that we won't be going round the world signing ground breaking trade deals with all and sundry. I admit, it may be too early to make that judgement but that's what it is starting to look like to me.

I said ages ago it will take years - probably 4 - it's not a problem in the long term

 

[olderskyblue]

I do wonder if all the whinging remainers (I'm a remainer, just not whinging about the vote) had just accepted the vote, and then got behind the decision, if things would have been a lot further on.

If I was "negotiating" from the European side, I would be quite content with all the negative stuff from MP's and the press about the UK leaving. Much better position to "negotiate" from.

 

[clint van damme]

I do wonder if all the whinging remainers (I'm a remainer, just not whinging about the vote) had just accepted the vote, and then got behind the decision, if things would have been a lot further on.

If I was "negotiating" from the European side, I would be quite content with all the negative stuff from MP's and the press about the UK leaving. Much better position to "negotiate" from.

people whinging or not won't make one jot of difference to the outcome of this process.

 

[torchomatic]

I do wonder if all the whinging remainers (I'm a remainer, just not whinging about the vote) had just accepted the vote, and then got behind the decision, if things would have been a lot further on.

If I was "negotiating" from the European side, I would be quite content with all the negative stuff from MP's and the press about the UK leaving. Much better position to "negotiate" from.

What nonsense. The Government should have the necessary nous and skill to be able to negotiate "stuff" regardless of who is moaning, whether that be remain or leave voters.

 

[olderskyblue]

What nonsense. The Government should have the necessary nous and skill to be able to negotiate "stuff" regardless of who is moaning, whether that be remain or leave voters.

When the "other side" know you are on weak ground, they clearly will have a different agenda.

I've been in that scenario, at senior level in a Company, negotiating for something when I know the other guy is in a weakened position. It changes the process completely.

Mind you, I expected the Whingers to disagree with me... :emoji_smile:

 

[clint van damme]

When the "other side" know you are on weak ground, they clearly will have a different agenda.

I've been in that scenario, at senior level in a Company, negotiating for something when I know the other guy is in a weakened position. It changes the process completely.

Mind you, I expected the Whingers to disagree with me... :emoji_smile:

you seriously thing people moaning in the media/social media weakens the governments position - bloody hell!!

 

[olderskyblue]

you seriously thing people moaning in the media/social media weakens the governments position - bloody hell!!

When it's at government level, yes. To think otherwise is naive.

To negotiate with someone knowing he really doesn't have the full support of the cabinet, or house, puts you in the driving seat completely. Why not just make derogatory comments about every step of the process, every speech, draq it out longer and longer. Who knows, there might be another Government come in who will reject the vote and stay in Europe.

 

[clint van damme]

When it's at government level, yes. To think otherwise is naive.

To negotiate with someone knowing he really doesn't have the full support of the cabinet, or house, puts you in the driving seat completely. Why not just make derogatory comments about every step of the process, every speech, draq it out longer and longer. Who knows, there might be another Government
come in who will reject the vote and stay in Europe.

hold on, you're moving the goal posts, now you're referring to people in Goverment not supporting the negotiating team that's different to your initial post:

"I do wonder if all the whinging remainers (I'm a remainer, just not whinging about the vote) had just accepted the vote, and then got behind the decision, if things would have been a lot further on."

I'm fairly sure there's no chance of the EU not giving in to one of our demands because someone on Skybluetalk called for a 2nd referendum and it got 5 likes!

 

[olderskyblue]

hold on, you're moving the goal posts, now you're referring to people in Goverment not supporting the negotiating team that's different to your initial post:

"I do wonder if all the whinging remainers (I'm a remainer, just not whinging about the vote) had just accepted the vote, and then got behind the decision, if things would have been a lot further on."

I'm fairly sure there's no chance of the EU not giving in to one of our demands because someone on Skybluetalk called for a 2nd referendum and it got 5 likes!

I see you missed this bit out. Probably because it completely nullifies your post?

If I was "negotiating" from the European side, I would be quite content with all the negative stuff from MP's and the press about the UK leaving. Much better position to "negotiate" from.

I agree with the 5 likes comment, however, if it got 10 likes, then that would make all the difference....

 

[clint van damme]

I see you missed this bit out. Probably because it completely nullifies your post?

I agree with the 5 likes comment, however, if it got 10 likes, then that would make all the difference....

it doesn't nullify anything, what you should have said is the tory party should show a united front, they'll be seeing us through the process, what every one else thinks is irrelevant,
Of course they won't because at least one of them and his supporters have their eye on number 10 and they'll do anything it takes to get there, the best interests of the country won't come into it.

 

[Johnnythespider]

When it's at government level, yes. To think otherwise is naive.

To negotiate with someone knowing he really doesn't have the full support of the cabinet, or house, puts you in the driving seat completely. Why not just make derogatory comments about every step of the process, every speech, draq it out longer and longer. Who knows, there might be another Government come in who will reject the vote and stay in Europe.

You mean like Boris coming out with his view of Brexit as opposed to the government he belongs to