The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (1 Viewer)

[Astute]

So now you want the EU to get involved in domestic politics? Make your mind up!

If Britain becomes a 3rd country you'll be able enter so many days out of the 365. Believe it or nor but other EU citizens holiday in the EU as well and they have wealth. The world does not revolve around Britain.

After all, a lot of the British immigrants in Spain don't learn the language, don't integrate, and seem to keep themselves to themselves.

So you think that the EU should interfere like they do now but not when a nations police attack the people living there?

So they can have freedom of movement but they can't have freedom to vote in their own country because the police will attack them. Freedom of speech has been taken away from them.

So when is the EU ever any use to the people in it?

 

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[Sick Boy]

So you think that the EU should interfere like they do now but not when a nations police attack the people living there?

So they can have freedom of movement but they can't have freedom to vote in their own country because the police will attack them. Freedom of speech has been taken away from them.

So when is the EU ever any use to the people in it?

As a neutral you should already know the answer. The matter is a Spanish domestic matter, not one of the EU. If you support the EU intervening in domestic policy, fair enough but I don't to that extent.

 

[Astute]

As a neutral you should already know the answer. The matter is a Spanish domestic matter, not one of the EU. If you support the EU intervening in domestic policy, fair enough but I don't to that extent.

I support anyone who would stop the police being able to attack people.

If police were attacking people because their government told them to and they were outside the EU they would be allowed to move to the EU as they would be seen as being in danger. It happens in what should be a civilised country and they don't want to know.

But they do want money off them.

 

[martcov]

You have been reading too much pro EU crap.

If the EU had the people as it's best intentions it would all go well. But they are more interested in the gravy train continuing. They don't care about the Spanish getting attacked by the police. Catalonia generates over 25% of Spains wealth. Spain would be an even bigger basket case without Catalonia. So the EU does nothing.

So you think that the EU won't allow us to holiday throughout the EU when many depend on us going there? Or we won't be able to live there if we can afford it? As in not work but spend our wealth there?

No I didn't say anything about holidays in the EU. Just mentioned that Ashdown won't be in the U.K. after Brexit.

 

[martcov]

Yes, but imagine what the company Tony works for would do.

They export I believe? What impact would it have on their competitiveness abroad?
Would they invest in more automation and release people?
When they hired people, would they take a risk on a school leaver, or would they rather bring in experienced and skilled people from outside the UK?
What would happen with inflation? How would that impact the unemployed, who might now find it even more difficult to find work?

I'm not against a minimum wage per se, although I prefer a free market which can find its own level. I prefer lots of competition in the jobs market so that wages find the correct level for the economy.
My point is, if one can imagine the economic consequences of a crazy number like £50 per hour, and one accepts that there isn't a magic number at which suddenly these consequences ignite (it happens gradually - a small move in minimum wage causes a small change in the economy), then one can understand that there could be negative impacts from a rise of some 50%+ to £10.

£10,00 is not a crazy number though and it would get people off benefit support. If it were enforced properly it would stop companies undercutting British workers. Millions of people would have more spending power. People higher up the food chain would over a short period of time get more money. Tax revenue would grow. Your pint and basic things like haircuts, bread, taxis would become more expensive - but poorer people would have more cash. Agree that too much is also bad, but a tenner before deductions is not crazy money.

 

[martcov]

I support anyone who would stop the police being able to attack people.

If police were attacking people because their government told them to and they were outside the EU they would be allowed to move to the EU as they would be seen as being in danger. It happens in what should be a civilised country and they don't want to know.

But they do want money off them.

Are you on the razzle in Greece?

 

[martcov]

So now you want the EU to get involved in domestic politics? Make your mind up!

If Britain becomes a 3rd country you'll be able enter so many days out of the 365. Believe it or nor but other EU citizens holiday in the EU as well and they have wealth. The world does not revolve around Britain.

After all, a lot of the British immigrants in Spain don't learn the language, don't integrate, and seem to keep themselves to themselves.

It is a bit ironic that Ashdown wants to emigrate to Spain whilst not liking EU policies or EU migrants. Still not so many foreigners there... oh wait....

 

[mrtrench]

£10,00 is not a crazy number though and it would get people off benefit support. If it were enforced properly it would stop companies undercutting British workers. Millions of people would have more spending power. People higher up the food chain would over a short period of time get more money. Tax revenue would grow. Your pint and basic things like haircuts, bread, taxis would become more expensive - but poorer people would have more cash. Agree that too much is also bad, but a tenner before deductions is not crazy money.

The big advantage I see is reducing in work benefits, which are effectively a subsidy for some companies. However when government implements any mandate that isn't aligned with market, market readjusts. So I think that the country will just inflate its way back to what market will support.

 

[Ashdown]

It is a bit ironic that Ashdown wants to emigrate to Spain whilst not liking EU policies or EU migrants. Still not so many foreigners there... oh wait....

You chat worse shit as the weeks go by. Typical of your moronic argument you quickly try and insinuate that opponents to your viewpoint must be xenophobic or racist, just as many of the Remain campaigners have done all along. Firstly where have I said 'Emigrate' ?? Secondly, where have I said anywhere I don't 'Like' foreigners ??
Talking about the impact of migration and population expansion is not racist, I love Europe and it's peoples, spent 13 years working for a German company near Wuppertal, bought millions of pounds worth of goods from Turkey, Italy and Sweden over the last 20 years through my own company and making many friends, travelled extensively throughout the EU and beyond both for pleasure and business.
You can do better than that last post Mart, don't be a prick !

 

[Grendel]

What's the breakdown? I'm sure there are something like 250k Romanians in the UK now?

Not sure why you've suddenly lumped the 2 nationalities together now?

I link them as they are categorised in research in the article as the same in relation to low pay at home versus minimum wage here. It states that at least 3 times as many from these countries are likely to work in very low paid jobs and also longer than 40 hours a week.

 

[chiefdave]

The big advantage I see is reducing in work benefits, which are effectively a subsidy for some companies.

That's the issue. You and I are subsidising these companies to allow them to make huge profits.

When the living wage was announced Whitbread said it would mean the cost being passed on to the customer across all their brands. Someone worked it out and the increase in wages was a fraction of 1% of their annual profits.

People who are working full time should not need benefits of any sort to be able to survive.

 

[mrtrench]

That's the issue. You and I are subsidising these companies to allow them to make huge profits.

When the living wage was announced Whitbread said it would mean the cost being passed on to the customer across all their brands. Someone worked it out and the increase in wages was a fraction of 1% of their annual profits.

People who are working full time should not need benefits of any sort to be able to survive.

We agree with the problem, just not the solution. I believe that a soaring minimum wage will just inflate the problem back.
The Tories tried to solve the same problem by reducing in work credit. In my opinion, the problem will stay whilst we have no control of low-skilled immigration.

 

[martcov]

We agree with the problem, just not the solution. I believe that a soaring minimum wage will just inflate the problem back.
The Tories tried to solve the same problem by reducing in work credit. In my opinion, the problem will stay whilst we have no control of low-skilled immigration.

If you seriously reduce low skilled immigration and pay much higher wages as a result, you will not have enough staff and your prices would rise, demand would drop and you would close outlets either because of lack of staff or lack of demand. Helps no one long term. A properly enforced minimum wage that has a relationship to the fact that unskilled or semi skilled people are doing these jobs is preferable so as not to price the jobs out of the market yet making sure that people can earn enough to enjoy life and not to have to have subsidies.

 

[mrtrench]

If you seriously reduce low skilled immigration and pay much higher wages as a result, you will not have enough staff and your prices would rise, demand would drop and you would close outlets either because of lack of staff or lack of demand. Helps no one long term. A properly enforced minimum wage that has a relationship to the fact that unskilled or semi skilled people are doing these jobs is preferable so as not to price the jobs out of the market yet making sure that people can earn enough to enjoy life and not to have to have subsidies.

If you reduce supply beyond what the market will take then indeed it will cause inflation: wages go higher, cost of goods goes higher and demand for goods and services increases due to the extra money in pockets: further boosting inflation.

However we have too much supply presently and hence wages are suppressed. Also, some of the money being earned is going back to other countries, so it isn't even boosting demand here.
It would be stupid to stop immigration. It just needs control. We have similar issues in housing. Supply not enough for demand. Control demand by reducing net immigration; build more houses and house prices come back into control.

When I write "not white" I don't mean "black".

 

[Ashdown]

German exports to the UK in 2016 were £104 billion , we sent £54 billion the other way !? I'm sure German industrialists will start to apply some leverage soon. They better not forget to keep sending my Erdinger though which I'm a tad partial too !

 

[Sick Boy]

German exports to the UK in 2016 were £104 billion , we sent £54 billion the other way !? I'm sure German industrialists will start to apply some leverage soon. They better not forget to keep sending my Erdinger though which I'm a tad partial too !

They've already said that preserving the integrity of the single market is more important.

 

[Grendel]

They've already said that preserving the integrity of the single market is more important.

Do you still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

 

[clint van damme]

German exports to the UK in 2016 were £104 billion , we sent £54 billion the other way !? I'm sure German industrialists will start to apply some leverage soon. They better not forget to keep sending my Erdinger though which I'm a tad partial too !

you got a link? I can't find anywhere putting the difference at 50 billion, even the express only has it at 25. Still substantial.

 

[Grendel]

you got a link? I can't find anywhere putting the difference at 50 billion, even the express only has it at 25. Still substantial.

I think it's £25 - the Benelux countries combined is around £20 billion as well

 

[Ashdown]

you got a link? I can't find anywhere putting the difference at 50 billion, even the express only has it at 25. Still substantial.

German firms told to prepare for a 'very hard' Brexit

 

[clint van damme]

German firms told to prepare for a 'very hard' Brexit

can't find anywhere else quoting those figures (doesn't mean they're wrong).

 

[Ashdown]

I'm not sure of the accuracy either but picked up on the article earlier and deduced that we are a pretty good customer overall !

 

[Grendel]

The real point here is that it's utterly absurd for the eu not to agree a free trade deal without strings as it's in all members interests. The only reason they wouldn't would be anger and spite - not exactly the type of rational approach you want in your politicians.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes, but imagine what the company Tony works for would do.

They export I believe? What impact would it have on their competitiveness abroad?
Would they invest in more automation and release people?
When they hired people, would they take a risk on a school leaver, or would they rather bring in experienced and skilled people from outside the UK?
What would happen with inflation? How would that impact the unemployed, who might now find it even more difficult to find work?

I'm not against a minimum wage per se, although I prefer a free market which can find its own level. I prefer lots of competition in the jobs market so that wages find the correct level for the economy.
My point is, if one can imagine the economic consequences of a crazy number like £50 per hour, and one accepts that there isn't a magic number at which suddenly these consequences ignite (it happens gradually - a small move in minimum wage causes a small change in the economy), then one can understand that there could be negative impacts from a rise of some 50%+ to £10.

I honestly don’t believe it would effect too many peoples wages where I work if any at all. Everybody I work with is either skilled, experienced or has a trade and above a certain age so I presume that everyone is already above £10 an hour. If they’re not they won’t be far away. It’s the bottom of the wage scale with unskilled and inexperienced workers that tend to get squeezed and that’s the area where the majority of EU immigrants work, hence blaming them for the suppression of wages is lazy politics when it’s government who set the minimum wage and can quite easily address this. If they wished. It’s clearly easier for them to let people believe it’s an external influence.

 

[martcov]

The real point here is that it's utterly absurd for the eu not to agree a free trade deal without strings as it's in all members interests. The only reason they wouldn't would be anger and spite - not exactly the type of rational approach you want in your politicians.

You'd be in a good position to assess anger and spite...... I don't think the EU parliament would ratify a deal based on anger and spite. You would have to have a significant majority of angry spiteful people to vote together against their rational judgement. The UK would have to have said or done something really bad to achieve that...... how is Boris getting on with his leadership plans btw?

 

[martcov]

German exports to the UK in 2016 were £104 billion , we sent £54 billion the other way !? I'm sure German industrialists will start to apply some leverage soon. They better not forget to keep sending my Erdinger though which I'm a tad partial too !

With the 9% drop in car sales in September, the building trade going into recession and the falling pound making imports more expensive, they better get a move on before the U.K. Market loses it's allure...Try Schneider Original.... I prefer that ( although Erdinger is also good ). I have Schneider on draught in my pub... I sell a bit of Twisted Barrel from Cov, also on draught.... my bit to help the balance of trade ;-)

 

[Grendel]

You'd be in a good position to assess anger and spite...... I don't think the EU parliament would ratify a deal based on anger and spite. You would have to have a significant majority of angry spiteful people to vote together against their rational judgement. The UK would have to have said or done something really bad to achieve that...... how is Boris getting on with his leadership plans btw?

How many free trade agreements do the eu have?

 

[martcov]

How many free trade agreements do the eu have?

Dodging my question I see...

 

[Grendel]

Dodging my question I see...

Oh no I'm building to an answer - how many?

 

[martcov]

Oh no I'm building to an answer - how many?

You obviously know the answer. But, I'm tired having watched a pretty crap England game.... I'll google it tomorrow if you can't be bothered to tell me. What I do know is that there is a customs union and free movement covering 500 million at least comparatively well off citizens and potential customers before you get on to deals with Japan and Canada. I also know that free trade deals which are very comprehensive take years of negotiations. You don't just sign them out of desperation under normal circumstances. Anyway what's that got to do with Boris' plans for being the next PM?

 

[Astute]

You'd be in a good position to assess anger and spite...... I don't think the EU parliament would ratify a deal based on anger and spite. You would have to have a significant majority of angry spiteful people to vote together against their rational judgement. The UK would have to have said or done something really bad to achieve that...... how is Boris getting on with his leadership plans btw?

Anger and spite?

Juncker allowed companies to register in Luxembourg. They have many more companies registered than they have residents. Now the EU are looking into the lack of tax being paid by companies registered in Luxembourg. How happy do you think he is?

Spain are getting their police to attack their own residents. The reason for this? They don't want their residents to have freedom of speech or the right to vote.

Oh yes all is well in the EU.

 

[Astute]

Dodging my question I see...

You are the one that always dodges the same question. The same as others that has the same views as yourself.

How do we sort out the housing crisis in the UK when you want us to continue to let anyone from the EU to come and live here when we already have millions of homeless people?

And blaming the Tories is not an answer.

 

[Sick Boy]

Anger and spite?

Juncker allowed companies to register in Luxembourg. They have many more companies registered than they have residents. Now the EU are looking into the lack of tax being paid by companies registered in Luxembourg. How happy do you think he is?

Spain are getting their police to attack their own residents. The reason for this? They don't want their residents to have freedom of speech or the right to vote.

Oh yes all is well in the EU.

I'm not sure many would agree that the EU should directly intervene in domestic affairs.

 

[Astute]

It is a bit ironic that Ashdown wants to emigrate to Spain whilst not liking EU policies or EU migrants. Still not so many foreigners there... oh wait....

Isn't it a bit ironic that you say we should continue to let anyone from the EU to come and live here although we already have a severe housing shortage when you don't even live here yourself.

 

[Astute]

I'm not sure many would agree that the EU should directly intervene in domestic affairs.

And how about Juncker sorting out the tax dodge for companies registered in Luxembourg?

So it is OK for any EU country to have their police attack their own residents? Makes the EU look toothless. Or they are only interested in looking after what gives them money. Catalonia generates more than a quarter of Spains wealth. Not bad for a small area. They have their own language and customs. That makes them a racial minority. The EU has laws covering it.