The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

[martcov]

Saw it on question time again last night. Brexit isn’t looking as easy as it was made out it would be and it’s the remainers fault.

If *if* brexit happens up being the best thing that ever happened to the country I’ll gladly eat a big slice of humble pie and shake the hand of anyone who voted out while admitting I got it wrong. By the same token if it’s the almighty fuck up I expect it to be don’t blame me for voting remain. You (the out voter) voted for it, whatever brexit ends up being it’s your fault. If it’s positive you can deservedly take the credit for it. If it’s negative you’re going to have to take responsibility for it.

Yes, that is it. I also said that I would gladly admit to being wrong if things turned out great. Up until now no one has laid out concrete benefits to Brexit. Lots of hot air and emotion though. The situation is not helped by having a disunited party in charge of seeing it through and so many different opinions as to what Brexit is.

 

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[Astute]

I have posted a link as answer to Grendel‘s question about trade deals. Await Grendel‘s revelations...

As regards his question about what I think about Catalonia. I repeat I don’t have an opinion on who is right or wrong. Just hope they find a way out, but it seems populism is at work which blinds people to the bigger picture. If Spain were to vote as a whole 52:48 for unity, but Catalonia voted for disunity, would you say the majority have decided, move on? Or, as in the case of Scotland and Northern Ireland would you say that the country as a whole has voted and the regions have to accept that? It’s democracy, get over it...?

Yeah get over it. Best reply yet.

I suppose that if when Scotland wanted their vote of independence the English should have sent in thousands of police and have them confiscate millions of.ballot papers, taken away the ballot boxes and then beat the shit out.of anyone who had the bottle to still try and vote with batons.....including women....and then drag them out by their hair before laying the boot in.

 

[Astute]

Does he have immunity? Can it be lifted? Has he done anything illegal? He didn’t own Luxemburg.

Are you saying that he wasn't their PM?

Are you saying that the EU.....not including Juncker....are not saying it was illegal?

 

[Astute]

No one person is in charge of the EU. Where do you get that from? The Sun?

So May isn't in charge of the UK?

Merkel isn't in charge of Germany?

Or is it that you can't cover up what he has done?

If something happened in the UK they would lose their seat. If they commit fraud they could go to prison. Just like some of them have in recent years. But this is the EU. So nothing will happen.

Then you wonder why millions of people are pissed off with the whole thing while you sit in a prosperous part of Germany running a prosperous company wondering why people here are unhappy.

 

[Astute]

Does he have immunity? Can it be lifted? Has he done anything illegal? He didn’t own Luxemburg.

He doesn't need immunity. He is the President of the gravy train that people don't want to jump off. So nobody will rock the boat.

 

[martcov]

Yeah get over it. Best reply yet.

I suppose that if when Scotland wanted their vote of independence the English should have sent in thousands of police and have them confiscate millions of.ballot papers, taken away the ballot boxes and then beat the shit out.of anyone who had the bottle to still try and vote with batons.....including women....and then drag them out by their hair before laying the boot in.

They held the referendum in accordance with the rules. A bit different.

 

[Astute]

Yes, that is it. I also said that I would gladly admit to being wrong if things turned out great. Up until now no one has laid out concrete benefits to Brexit. Lots of hot air and emotion though. The situation is not helped by having a disunited party in charge of seeing it through and so many different opinions as to what Brexit is.

Nobody has said much because we don't know. When you say it will be bad for us you are guessing.

All we have had so far is posturing. But I can see your point in one direction. It wouldn't surprise me if they were not interested in the best deal for both sides. They don't want what is best for the people. They are more.interested in a superstate. Juncker has even stated that although open borders has helped murderers and terrorists moving freely it is a lot more important for us not to have to show our passports. He says it has saved residents in Luxembourg a lot of time and money.

 

[Astute]

They held the referendum in accordance with the rules. A bit different.

So what rules did Catalonia break that Scotland didn't do?

 

[martcov]

So May isn't in charge of the UK?

Merkel isn't in charge of Germany?

Or is it that you can't cover up what he has done?

If something happened in the UK they would lose their seat. If they commit fraud they could go to prison. Just like some of them have in recent years. But this is the EU. So nothing will happen.

Then you wonder why millions of people are pissed off with the whole thing while you sit in a prosperous part of Germany running a prosperous company wondering why people here are unhappy.

Merkel isn't a dictator. She has to put a coalition together - four different parties including her own. She also has to hold a party conference to lay out policy. What makes you think that Juncker rules the EU?

What makes you think that May is in charge of the UK? She has a cabinet and a party who are not all behind her and she has the DUP who could pull the rug from under her at any time.

I don't know exactly what Juncker has done or whether he has committed criminal acts.

Not all people are unhappy in the UK by any means and KoK will tell you how great the country is better than I can. A Mecca for immigrants from all over the world. You must live in a very depressed area.

 

[martcov]

Nobody has said much because we don't know. When you say it will be bad for us you are guessing.

All we have had so far is posturing. But I can see your point in one direction. It wouldn't surprise me if they were not interested in the best deal for both sides. They don't want what is best for the people. They are more.interested in a superstate. Juncker has even stated that although open borders has helped murderers and terrorists moving freely it is a lot more important for us not to have to show our passports. He says it has saved residents in Luxembourg a lot of time and money.

You live on an island surrounded by water as Trump would define it. Germany has 8 borders and Luxemburg is a land island surrounded by borders. Many countries would suffer immense economic problems if we went back to hard borders. Millions cross back and forth over soft borders every day. A return to hard borders won't happen. If murderers flee to Scotland or Wales, we wouldn't put up hard borders. It is a question of relativity. The UK can control it's outer borders more easily than, say, Germany. A lot of EU border is sea or rivers. They have a bit more chance of controlling the outer borders and that is what they should concentrate on.

 

[martcov]

So what rules did Catalonia break that Scotland didn't do?

They called an illegal referendum. The central government didn't allow it. Scotland were given the power to call a referendum by Westminster. Westminster allowed it to take place and took part in the debate. Totally different scenario.

 

[Astute]

Merkel isn't a dictator. She has to put a coalition together - four different parties including her own. She also has to hold a party conference to lay out policy. What makes you think that Juncker rules the EU?

What makes you think that May is in charge of the UK? She has a cabinet and a party who are not all behind her and she has the DUP who could pull the rug from under her at any time.

I don't know exactly what Juncker has done or whether he has committed criminal acts.

Not all people are unhappy in the UK by any means and KoK will tell you how great the country is better than I can. A Mecca for immigrants from all over the world. You must live in a very depressed area.

So I called Merkel a dictator?

She needs others to join her because of what has been going on. She has been getting weaker. But she is still in charge.

Juncker is head of the EU. So in what way isn't he in charge?

 

[martcov]

Nobody has said much because we don't know. When you say it will be bad for us you are guessing.

All we have had so far is posturing. But I can see your point in one direction. It wouldn't surprise me if they were not interested in the best deal for both sides. They don't want what is best for the people. They are more.interested in a superstate. Juncker has even stated that although open borders has helped murderers and terrorists moving freely it is a lot more important for us not to have to show our passports. He says it has saved residents in Luxembourg a lot of time and money.

I said that I think that it will be bad for us and up until now I haven't seen any positive signs that we will be better off outside the EU. So guessing, but based on observations. Saying that we will be sailing off into a glorious sunset without any facts or even observations that back it up is pure religious like faith.

 

[Kingokings204]

So I called Merkel a dictator?

She needs others to join her because of what has been going on. She has been getting weaker. But she is still in charge.

Juncker is head of the EU. So in what way isn't he in charge?

Juncker is the head of the EU commission who have the sole right to propose and set legislation in member states. He is the main man.

But he isn't accountable because you can't get rid of him as a voter. Democracy hey.

 

[martcov]

So I called Merkel a dictator?

She needs others to join her because of what has been going on. She has been getting weaker. But she is still in charge.

Juncker is head of the EU. So in what way isn't he in charge?

She needs others to join her again. She had the same Percentage in 2009 and did a deal with the SPD. The bigger shock is the collapse of the SPD who has achieved a lot of what they promised to do. This time it is more complicated because of her right wing sister party and the improbable combination of the liberals and the greens. Although, where I live, the CDU, Liberals and Greens govern our state. So, it shows that a Jamaica coalition is possible. Wait and see.

Juncker is head of the Commission and cannot pass legislation. In no way is he in charge of the EU without being able to pass any laws.

 

[martcov]

Juncker is the head of the EU commission who have the sole right to propose and set legislation in member states. He is the main man.

But he isn't accountable because you can't get rid of him as a voter. Democracy hey.

He cannot pass any legislation and he is not the sole member of the commission. How can he tell member states they have to pass what he personally says? They can amend or reject his proposals. He will be up for election by 27 EU governments at the end of his term. He is the leading civil servant not MEP. Can you elect British civil servants? No, they are appointed - the same as Juncker is appointed by governments.

 

[Astute]

They called an illegal referendum. The central government didn't allow it. Scotland were given the power to call a referendum by Westminster. Westminster allowed it to take place and took part in the debate. Totally different scenario.

Scotland wanted a referendum. The rest of the UK didn't want them to have one. But they have the right to have one. So it happened.

Catalonia wanted a referendum. Spain would be in the shit even more if they left. So Spain denied them their rights. It is only illegal in the eyes of the Spanish. What is illegal was the way the Spanish dealt with the situation. The police who attacked people should be held accountable. And those who sent them there should also have to be held accountable.

The Catalonians should have their rights protected by the EU as they are EU residents. But the EU wants their money. And that is all they seem to care about.

 

[martcov]

When it comes to reading EU crap...think about the banana regulations. They were portrayed in our media as mad establishment interference. In reality they are designed as protectionist measures...EU bananas tend to have a certain different consistency to the Carribean ones apparently...so it protected the EU internal market economy - rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly. So ultimately the EU DOES concern itself & care about the same Spanish (general term) who are being hit with batons.

Your final point is true the world over...if you have money to spend - you're more than welcome 'here', otherwise f**k-off!!!

That has been the same throughput time the world over. You're always welcome everywhere until it is decided you're taking the piss & have nothing (even intent is welcomed to a degree) to offer.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Bendy Bananas - the Myth to end all Myths
26/05/2016
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The EU trying to ban straight & bendy bananas is perhaps the most well-established Euromyth of them all. Is Brussels really meddling in what our beloved bananas should look like?


Yes & No.

Bananas are classified by quality and size so they can be traded internationally. Quality standards are also needed so that people know what they are buying and that the produce meets their expectations.

Straight & bendy are not banned by the EU. Commission Regulation 2257/94 identifies certain restrictions for fruits that producers have to conform to in order to sell their produce within the EU. The regulation states that bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature."

Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape".

In 2011 this regulation and other relevant rules were brought together for the sake of clarity under a single implementing regulation (1333/2011), and in 2013 a further change simplified reporting requirements (implementing regulation 565/2013).

 

[Astute]

She needs others to join her again. She had the same Percentage in 2009 and did a deal with the SPD. The bigger shock is the collapse of the SPD who has achieved a lot of what they promised to do. This time it is more complicated because of her right wing sister party and the improbable combination of the liberals and the greens. Although, where I live, the CDU, Liberals and Greens govern our state. So, it shows that a Jamaica coalition is possible. Wait and see.

Juncker is head of the Commission and cannot pass legislation. In no way is he in charge of the EU without being able to pass any laws.

You live in Germany and say you have for many years yet you make out she got the same % of votes?

Both sides of the coalition had their votes collapse this time. The AfD started up 4 years ago. They already have nearly half of Merkels vote. That is a major worry and problem. There has been an uprising of the racist / fascist vote in other EU countries.

Are you not worried about the direction the EU is going in?

 

[martcov]

Scotland wanted a referendum. The rest of the UK didn't want them to have one. But they have the right to have one. So it happened.

Catalonia wanted a referendum. Spain would be in the shit even more if they left. So Spain denied them their rights. It is only illegal in the eyes of the Spanish. What is illegal was the way the Spanish dealt with the situation. The police who attacked people should be held accountable. And those who sent them there should also have to be held accountable.

The Catalonians should have their rights protected by the EU as they are EU residents. But the EU wants their money. And that is all they seem to care about.

Spain is a net receiver. Spain has a constitution and the referendum was against the constitution. Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU. If.. they have EU Rights which are not being observed, then they will have to go to court to clarify if this is true. A bit like SISU having to prove their claim of illegal state aid... or whatever they choose to claim. Both sides claim to be in the right. You are taking one side without studying the situation. I am staying out of it, but if Rights are being infringed then there should be a court hearing and resulting decision.

 

[Captain Dart]

52% of those who bothered to vote have decided for the rest of the population. Hardly a decisive victory.

Remind me what % voted for Merkel, was it 33%, how decisive.

 

[Captain Dart]

Does he have immunity? Can it be lifted? Has he done anything illegal? He didn’t own Luxemburg.

If you have a coalition of national states with different tax regimes then this level of abuse by some states is hardly surprising.
The EU is unworkable as it is, it is akin to Frankenstein's monster made up of odd parts.

 

[Astute]

I said that I think that it will be bad for us and up until now I haven't seen any positive signs that we will be better off outside the EU. So guessing, but based on observations. Saying that we will be sailing off into a glorious sunset without any facts or even observations that back it up is pure religious like faith.

So where have I said that it will all end well? You know that I haven't.

So what went wrong after the leave vote was confirmed? We are all supposed to be jobless and homeless by now if the remainers know what they are talking about. Yet I am supposed to believe everything that they say.

 

[martcov]

You live in Germany and say you have for many years yet you make out she got the same % of votes?

Both sides of the coalition had their votes collapse this time. The AfD started up 4 years ago. They already have nearly half of Merkels vote. That is a major worry and problem. There has been an uprising of the racist / fascist vote in other EU countries.

Are you not worried about the direction the EU is going in?

As in 2009 and not as in 2013. The AfD got 12% and the CDU got 32%. That is not nearly half. AfD are to an extent regional and there are many historical factors in the trends in the West and previous communist East.

I am not worried about the direction in which the EU is going in. More cooperation, closer fiscal rules and regulations, calling out countries breaking the rules etc.. I am worried about fake and junk news being fed through crap papers belonging to certain individuals and through countries with an agenda via social media. This and people's discontent being pushed/ pulled into selfish short term solutions to long term problems.

Look at Murdoch. Would you allow him to rule the country? No, but you will read and watch his media and then use it against me. Would you let Putin rule the UK? No, but you quote parties that are financed through Moscow and who get support from social media trolls originating in Russia. I would look at where the propaganda attacks are coming from to see what is happening. Pretty obvious that a powerful wealthy EU may help Europeans, but there are people outside of our region who would prefer a disunited squabbling Europe of mini Catalonian type states.

 

[martcov]

If you have a coalition of national states with different tax regimes then this level of abuse by some states is hardly surprising.
The EU is unworkable as it is, it is akin to Frankenstein's monster made up of odd parts.

Well no. The idea put forward several times, and again now, is to have fiscal conformity. That, and a common currency, are necessary for the medium to long term. The EU has not got that far yet. It may be of benefit that the UK is leaving.

 

[martcov]

So where have I said that it will all end well? You know that I haven't.

So what went wrong after the leave vote was confirmed? We are all supposed to be jobless and homeless by now if the remainers know what they are talking about. Yet I am supposed to believe everything that they say.

You claim we are homeless..... We are not jobless, but spending power has been reduced, car sales have dropped, the pound has dropped, imported goods - including raw materials for production are being more expensive, a rate rise making credit for expansion more expensive is on the way and the government is in disarray. Not bad for starters. Any sign of benefits from Brexit?

 

[martcov]

Remind me what % voted for Merkel, was it 33%, how decisive.

Over 85% against AfD and neo Nazis. Very decisive. Why are people on here talking about them?

 

[Sick Boy]

So what rules did Catalonia break that Scotland didn't do?

It was legal for a start and those wanting to remain as part of Spain wouldn't have gone out and voted.

 

[Kingokings204]

He cannot pass any legislation and he is not the sole member of the commission. How can he tell member states they have to pass what he personally says? They can amend or reject his proposals. He will be up for election by 27 EU governments at the end of his term. He is the leading civil servant not MEP. Can you elect British civil servants? No, they are appointed - the same as Juncker is appointed by governments.

Yes and we voted against him 26-2 we were out voted back in 2014.

You're absolutely right. They are appointed and not elected so you cannot remove them in other words they are not accountable.

Juncker leads the commission who propose and set laws and legislation in member states. That is some power. The power to make the big businesses bigger and the EU becomes a protectionist union which it is today. Free movement and free labour etc is all good for the eu gravy train with pensions not seen anywhere else in the world like the EU and big businesses and major banks who like masses of rules and legislations.

 

[martcov]

Yes and we voted against him 26-2 we were out voted back in 2014.

You're absolutely right. They are appointed and not elected so you cannot remove them in other words they are not accountable.

Juncker leads the commission who propose and set laws and legislation in member states. That is some power. The power to make the big businesses bigger and the EU becomes a protectionist union which it is today. Free movement and free labour etc is all good for the eu gravy train with pensions not seen anywhere else in the world like the EU and big businesses and major banks who like masses of rules and legislations.

26-2 is a lot more convincing than 52:48. Its democracy, get over it. He is elected for a term ( 5 years I think ), so he will have to be reelected in 2019 if he wants to stay on. He is not a king and is therefore accountable. The EU Commission proposes laws which can be amended or rejected by MEPs. The EU is no more protectionist than you want the EU to be, but it is a far bigger market than the U.K.. Free labour? Where's that and what has it to do with gravy trainers like Farage? Big businesses don't like rules and regulations- that's why Trump is popular with them and our Tories are always moaning about rules. Big business wants a free hand to do what they want which is why people like Murdoch want to smash the EU. Think you've got a few things wrong today. Rules and legislation are what protect workers and consumers like ourselves from big business. Don't listen to that fat cat BoJo. We know whose side he is on. May's husband works for a hedge fund and we on here know how hedge funds operate.

 

[Kingokings204]

26-2 is a lot more convincing than 52:48. Its democracy, get over it. He is elected for a term ( 5 years I think ), so he will have to be reelected in 2019 if he wants to stay on. He is not a king and is therefore accountable. The EU Commission proposes laws which can be amended or rejected by MEPs. The EU is no more protectionist than you want the EU to be, but it is a far bigger market than the U.K.. Free labour? Where's that and what has it to do with gravy trainers like Farage? Big businesses don't like rules and regulations- that's why Trump is popular with them and our Tories are always moaning about rules. Big business wants a free hand to do what they want which is why people like Murdoch want to smash the EU. Think you've got a few things wrong today. Rules and legislation are what protect workers and consumers like ourselves from big business. Don't listen to that fat cat BoJo. We know whose side he is on. May's husband works for a hedge fund and we on here know how hedge funds operate.

Dear oh dear. I don't know why I bother.

For goodness sake man he isn't elected. Not one citizen from Europe has voted for juncker. He can't be elected. This is why he commands no respect on the world stage. He also can't be accountable for his actions because no body can remove him from that position until 2019. Until he is "re-elected" Trump, May, macron, Merkel have all been elected by the voter.

How you can call farage a gravy trainer when he has campaign for 25 years to get us out of this union is beyond me. I would say it's the exact opposite.

And finally to say big business don't like the rules and regulations is utter laughable so no response needed but more seriously shows how out of touch you are over the whole EU project.

 

[clint van damme]

Dear oh dear. I don't know why I bother.

For goodness sake man he isn't elected. Not one citizen from Europe has voted for juncker. He can't be elected. This is why he commands no respect on the world stage. He also can't be accountable for his actions because no body can remove him from that position until 2019. Until he is "re-elected" Trump, May, macron, Merkel have all been elected by the voter.

How you can call farage a gravy trainer when he has campaign for 25 years to get us out of this union is beyond me. I would say it's the exact opposite.

And finally to say big business don't like the rules and regulations is utter laughable so no response needed but more seriously shows how out of touch you are over the whole EU project.

while taking a shit load of money off them! That's gravy training in my book mixed in with a large dollop of hypocrisy.
Read what UKIP founder Alan Sked has to say about him, very illuminating.

 

[Kingokings204]

while taking a shit load of money off them! That's gravy training in my book mixed in with a large dollop of hypocrisy.
Read what UKIP founder Alan Sked has to say about him, very illuminating.

Yes that's democracy. He has benefitted from the salary and pension of course but he has been consistent for 25 years tbf.

Look at it like this, the SNP hate England and want to be indepedant yeah but they still come to Westminster and get paid a mp salary etc. it's democracy and in a democracy there is opposition. That's healthy.

 

[Astute]

You claim we are homeless..... We are not jobless, but spending power has been reduced, car sales have dropped, the pound has dropped, imported goods - including raw materials for production are being more expensive, a rate rise making credit for expansion more expensive is on the way and the government is in disarray. Not bad for starters. Any sign of benefits from Brexit?

I claimed we are homeless? No. But millions are.

Car sales have dropped? They have been at record levels. But even this is a lie. Most are rented. They will never be owned. But they go down on the figures as sold.

The pound has dropped? So now it is on it's way back up has it risen?

As I and many others keep saying we don't know what Brexit will look like. It is just posturing so far. Just like with Fisher and our football club.

 

[Astute]

Well no. The idea put forward several times, and again now, is to have fiscal conformity. That, and a common currency, are necessary for the medium to long term. The EU has not got that far yet. It may be of benefit that the UK is leaving.

Would you like to explain how the poorer countries will do as well in a single currency as a country that is strong? Or don't you have a grasp of economics?