The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (36 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Yes eggs with eggs.

So how many eggs is it going to cost us to sell in the EU? How many eggs is it going to cost EU countries to trade with us?

We already trade with countries all over the world. We have done for hundreds of years. But EU rules stops us from having trade deals. Trade deals will be beneficial to both sides. It won't be as hard as many would like you to believe.

Why do companies from all over the world come here to use our experience and expertise? We will

Blimey, best get you signed up to the Trade Department, they could do with someone of your expertise.

 

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[Sick Boy]

Don't worry. It is the same question that can't be answered by most pro EU people. You can't make a problem better by making it worse.

I expect people from the former colonies faced the same scapegoating previously as well.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I expect people from the former colonies faced the same scapegoating previously as well.

Who cares how government chooses to spend the money contributed by immigrants eh... it's all their fault for coming over here, paying our taxes, and giving the treasury more money to spend than it would otherwise have.

 

[martcov]

Don't worry. It is the same question that can't be answered by most pro EU people. You can't make a problem better by making it worse.

You make the problem 100% the fault of EU migrants. It isn't.

 

[Astute]

I expect people from the former colonies faced the same scapegoating previously as well.

Scapegoating?

So there isn't a homeless problem that isn't getting worse each year?

 

[Grendel]

Regarding the EU not interfering with domestic politics one should consider their views on Scotland and Catalonia.

As everyone I'm sure is aware a state declaring independence is immediately withdrawn from the EU and has to apply for membership to ensure it meets the criteria.

This can take years. In Scotland's case there was extraordinary claims that they could be "fast tracked" to gain entry - a breach of policy and a deliberate strategy to reassure Scottish voters against the very real fact they would be out of the UK and Europe. Regarding Catalonia the opposite is true and the state is reminded that it would be on its own and cast adrift.

Clear cases of domestic interference.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes eggs with eggs.

So how many eggs is it going to cost us to sell in the EU? How many eggs is it going to cost EU countries to trade with us?

We already trade with countries all over the world. We have done for hundreds of years. But EU rules stops us from having trade deals. Trade deals will be beneficial to both sides. It won't be as hard as many would like you to believe.

Why do companies from all over the world come here to use our experience and expertise? We will

You do know that EU membership also gives us trade deals already with the rest of the world? The untested assumption is that we can do better on our own. We’ll see but I’m not convinced and nothing about the carry on style of David Davies and staff brexit negotiations has convinced me otherwise.

 

[Astute]

You make the problem 100% the fault of EU migrants. It isn't.

No. You accuse me of such because you know there is no answer for it without going against what you say day after day.

We can control non EU residents coming to live here. We have no control over EU residents.

 

[Astute]

You do know that EU membership also gives us trade deals already with the rest of the world? The untested assumption is that we can do better on our own. We’ll see but I’m not convinced and nothing about the carry on style of David Davies and staff brexit negotiations has convinced me otherwise.

Who needs a better deal?

 

[Kingokings204]

Why would it? Scotland is currently a member of the EU. Why would that change if they gained independence from the rest of the UK pre brexit?

That's not indepedence then is it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Regarding the EU not interfering with domestic politics one should consider their views on Scotland and Catalonia.

As everyone I'm sure is aware a state declaring independence is immediately withdrawn from the EU and has to apply for membership to ensure it meets the criteria.

This can take years. In Scotland's case there was extraordinary claims that they could be "fast tracked" to gain entry - a breach of policy and a deliberate strategy to reassure Scottish voters against the very real fact they would be out of the UK and Europe. Regarding Catalonia the opposite is true and the state is reminded that it would be on its own and cast adrift.

Clear cases of domestic interference.

Scotland already meets the criteria. If it didn’t the UK could never have joined the EU in the first place. I’m sure Catalonia would probably find itself in the same situation. This means fast track is very likely. It doesn’t have to change and strive to meet certain criteria to join it already has it which by definition makes the process a formality.

 

[skybluetony176]

Who needs a better deal?

So what’s the point in brexit then?

 

[Astute]

That's not indepedence then is it.

Scotland would probably ask for a loan from us to help pay money into the EU for them.

 

[Astute]

So what’s the point in brexit then?

We all have our own ideas.

My biggest problem is the homeless situation that is getting worse each year. And to have this problem we pay in billions each year.

So what is your view on the worsening homeless situation without just trying to answer by blaming others?

 

[Astute]

Scotland already meets the criteria. If it didn’t the UK could never have joined the EU in the first place. I’m sure Catalonia would probably find itself in the same situation. This means fast track is very likely. It doesn’t have to change and strive to meet certain criteria to join it already has it which by definition makes the process a formality.

Juncker has said new entrants will have to take on the Euro. That won't go down well.

 

[Grendel]

Scotland already meets the criteria. If it didn’t the UK could never have joined the EU in the first place. I’m sure Catalonia would probably find itself in the same situation. This means fast track is very likely. It doesn’t have to change and strive to meet certain criteria to join it already has it which by definition makes the process a formality.

Hello tony - no Scotland doesn't meet the criteria at all regarding several points most notably the budget against GDP criteria which it definetely fails on as a go it alone state.

Bye Tony

 

[Grendel]

This is the best summary of new entrants issues - and this is the most optimistic I can find from a Scottish perspective - it actually glosses over the big barrier from entry and still suggests it would be 3 years at best - the budget issue (which Catalonia would easily meet) is wildly optimistic

An Independent Scotland and the EU: What Route to Membership? | European Futures

 

[skybluetony176]

Juncker has said new entrants will have to take on the Euro. That won't go down well.

Has he? When? It’s not part of the Copenhagen criteria as far as I know and they are the rules for joining the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

Hello tony - no Scotland doesn't meet the criteria at all regarding several points most notably the budget against GDP criteria which it definetely fails on as a go it alone state.

Bye Tony

Really? What’s the GDP requirement then? What’s Scotland’s GDP?

 

[Sick Boy]

We all have our own ideas.

My biggest problem is the homeless situation that is getting worse each year. And to have this problem we pay in billions each year.

So what is your view on the worsening homeless situation without just trying to answer by blaming others?

You do plenty of blaming and scapegoating yourself. Looking forward to see who will be to blame next.

 

[skybluetony176]

We all have our own ideas.

My biggest problem is the homeless situation that is getting worse each year. And to have this problem we pay in billions each year.

So what is your view on the worsening homeless situation without just trying to answer by blaming others?

The housing crisis is a home grown crisis that’s been an issue for decades caused by successive governments from all parties over at least 30 years failing to address it. With or without EU immigrants it would still be a problem.

 

[Astute]

You do plenty of blaming and scapegoating yourself. Looking forward to see who will be to blame next.

Why do you always bring scapegoating into it when you don't have an even slight reply to come back with?

Lets try again.

You say that you work with homeless people. So you will know that we have millions of homeless people here in the UK. You will also know that it would take many years of building properties at full speed to catch up with the population we have now. So how would you solve the housing crisis that we have when people from anywhere in the EU can come to live here if they like? Our population is still going up by nearly half a million each year.

That is not looking for someone to blame. That is looking at the facts.

The biggest irony? You make out that it isn't a problem. Then you moan about having to pay 1k a month rent for a 1 bed flat. Rents and house prices are so high because there are not enough houses to go round.

 

[Astute]

Has he? When? It’s not part of the Copenhagen criteria as far as I know and they are the rules for joining the EU.

Of course not.

The long term view of the EU is to expand and all new entrants to have the Euro. Juncker has said so.

But this is where Juncker isn't in charge. Juncker isn't the leader of the EU. Same old line. So who is in charge? Well....errrr.....

 

[Astute]

The housing crisis is a home grown crisis that’s been an issue for decades caused by successive governments from all parties over at least 30 years failing to address it. With or without EU immigrants it would still be a problem.

Have you got your calculator ready?

How many people have come to live here from the EU? We will make it easy and just count the last 20 years.

United Kingdom: A Reluctant Country of Immigration


How many migrants are there already in the UK?
The migrants that arrived in 2016 joined an estimated 5.567 million citizens of other countries already living in the UK in 2015.

According to the ONS 2015 figures , nine in every 100 people living in the UK were non-British.

Of these, the number of EU citizens is estimated at 3.2 million, or five in every 100, and the number of non-EU citizens at 2.4 million, or four in every 100.

So about 9% of our population were not born here. But their children were so they are full British citizens.


So about 5% of our population were born in EU countries. Are 5% of our population classed as homeless? It is shameful but yes. Has the influx of people made any difference? Only a fool would try to say anything but a massive difference.

So yet again how can we solve our homeless crisis?

 

[martcov]

Of course not.

The long term view of the EU is to expand and all new entrants to have the Euro. Juncker has said so.

But this is where Juncker isn't in charge. Juncker isn't the leader of the EU. Same old line. So who is in charge? Well....errrr.....

Jack booted Merkel? Eurocrats? Take your pick of Murdoch‘s villains.

 

[martcov]

Have you got your calculator ready?

How many people have come to live here from the EU? We will make it easy and just count the last 20 years.

United Kingdom: A Reluctant Country of Immigration


How many migrants are there already in the UK?
The migrants that arrived in 2016 joined an estimated 5.567 million citizens of other countries already living in the UK in 2015.

According to the ONS 2015 figures , nine in every 100 people living in the UK were non-British.

Of these, the number of EU citizens is estimated at 3.2 million, or five in every 100, and the number of non-EU citizens at 2.4 million, or four in every 100.

So about 9% of our population were not born here. But their children were so they are full British citizens.


So about 5% of our population were born in EU countries. Are 5% of our population classed as homeless? It is shameful but yes. Has the influx of people made any difference? Only a fool would try to say anything but a massive difference.

So yet again how can we solve our homeless crisis?

Build houses?

 

[martcov]

Juncker has said new entrants will have to take on the Euro. That won't go down well.

That is not necessarily true. We don’t know what the situation will be in, say, five years time. The pound has already slumped, the USA has already rejected the post Brexit agriculture plan... There are advantages in having a single currency over a large heavily populated area. Not least currency stability in the market which helps costing and forward planning. Not to mention currency exchange costs.

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you got your calculator ready?

How many people have come to live here from the EU? We will make it easy and just count the last 20 years.

United Kingdom: A Reluctant Country of Immigration


How many migrants are there already in the UK?
The migrants that arrived in 2016 joined an estimated 5.567 million citizens of other countries already living in the UK in 2015.

According to the ONS 2015 figures , nine in every 100 people living in the UK were non-British.

Of these, the number of EU citizens is estimated at 3.2 million, or five in every 100, and the number of non-EU citizens at 2.4 million, or four in every 100.

So about 9% of our population were not born here. But their children were so they are full British citizens.


So about 5% of our population were born in EU countries. Are 5% of our population classed as homeless? It is shameful but yes. Has the influx of people made any difference? Only a fool would try to say anything but a massive difference.

So yet again how can we solve our homeless crisis?

Build houses at a higher rate than we have been over the last 30 years. You do realise that a lot of those EU immigrants have been here to fill gaps in the skilled workforce to build the houses we need to build with or without the growth of EU immigrants? You do realise that a large number of those EU immigrants live in HMO’s and are not the strain on the housing markets that an equal number of British citizens are? You do realise that EU immigrants are hear because their isn’t enough people to fill the gaps in the job markets as a whole without them so their presence has grown the British economy, they’re net contributors to the British economy but this net contribution hasn’t been fed back into the house building markets to combat the housing crisis.

If we’d had a home grown population boom in the same numbers of EU immigrants over the same period that had fed the growth in the British economy in the same period we’d still have a housing crisis. Would you be blaming any family for that that had more than 2.4 children or would you be blaming successive governments for not tackling a growing problem to the point that it becomes a crisis?

 

[Astute]

Build houses?

So how many houses could be built each year?

How many years would it take to catch up with the homeless we already have?

How much will our population go up in this time?

 

[Astute]

That is not necessarily true. We don’t know what the situation will be in, say, five years time. The pound has already slumped, the USA has already rejected the post Brexit agriculture plan... There are advantages in having a single currency over a large heavily populated area. Not least currency stability in the market which helps costing and forward planning. Not to mention currency exchange costs.

You try telling people from poorer countries that there are advantages of having their currency tied to strong countries like Germany.

Would you like to name one?

 

[Sick Boy]

So how many houses could be built each year?

How many years would it take to catch up with the homeless we already have?

How much will our population go up in this time?

Well we require EU migration to keep the construction industry going amongst over industries. You're going to be in for a shock when EU migration remains at relatively similar levels post Brexit. Looking forward to seeing who you will move onto next.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Build houses at a higher rate than we have been over the last 30 years. You do realise that a lot of those EU immigrants have been here to fill gaps in the skilled workforce to build the houses we need to build with or without the growth of EU immigrants? You do realise that a large number of those EU immigrants live in HMO’s and are not the strain on the housing markets that an equal number of British citizens are? You do realise that EU immigrants are hear because their isn’t enough people to fill the gaps in the job markets as a whole without them so their presence has grown the British economy, they’re net contributors to the British economy but this net contribution hasn’t been fed back into the house building markets to combat the housing crisis.

If we’d had a home grown population boom in the same numbers of EU immigrants over the same period that had fed the growth in the British economy in the same period we’d still have a housing crisis. Would you be blaming any family for that that had more than 2.4 children or would you be blaming successive governments for not tackling a growing problem to the point that it becomes a crisis?

They also give us the cash to pay for social housing. If government choose to use it elsewhere or go for a low tax economy, that's their choice.

 

[Astute]

Build houses at a higher rate than we have been over the last 30 years. You do realise that a lot of those EU immigrants have been here to fill gaps in the skilled workforce to build the houses we need to build with or without the growth of EU immigrants? You do realise that a large number of those EU immigrants live in HMO’s and are not the strain on the housing markets that an equal number of British citizens are? You do realise that EU immigrants are hear because their isn’t enough people to fill the gaps in the job markets as a whole without them so their presence has grown the British economy, they’re net contributors to the British economy but this net contribution hasn’t been fed back into the house building markets to combat the housing crisis.

If we’d had a home grown population boom in the same numbers of EU immigrants over the same period that had fed the growth in the British economy in the same period we’d still have a housing crisis. Would you be blaming any family for that that had more than 2.4 children or would you be blaming successive governments for not tackling a growing problem to the point that it becomes a crisis?

What a load of rubbish.

You have used true facts but filled it out with crap to make it look good.

HMO's are not good. And that is the legal ones. People deserve proper housing. You say that those coming here to work and living in them don't make any difference. Are they never to have a family?

You say that we would still have the same if we were having as many children as the net growth of people coming here to live. These days we do. There has never been as many children born here before.

So you won't face the fact that even if we built houses at record levels it would take many years just to catch up with the homeless we already have. Then add our population going up by about half a million each year.

Why don't you just blame me? I have much more than the 2.4 average.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why don't you just blame me? I have much more than the 2.4 average.

You are blaming people like my parents and partner for coming to this country and causing a national housing crisis. Don't like it when it's turned round?

I'm sure your pals Duncan-Smith, Gove, and Rees Mogg all have the homeless at the forefront of their minds over Brexit.

 

[Astute]

Well we require EU migration to keep the construction industry going amongst over industries. You're going to be in for a shock when EU migration remains at relatively similar levels post Brexit. Looking forward to seeing who you will move onto next.

So if we need migration to keep the building trade going why are pay rates for those in the building trade going down?

The more people that come here the more houses we need. Yet excuses are all ready as I can see.