The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

[Astute]

Same as London though, and there are probably people who want it to be independent!

London is a city. Catalonia is a district with a different language and different customs. So what is your point?

 

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[martcov]

The Scottish had the vote. Leave or stay. There was not two parties as you try to make out.

The Catalonians wanted a vote. Leave or stay. But the Spanish know it would have been a landslide vote to leave. Catalonians have never seen themselves as Spanish. They are Catalonians. They have a different language. They have different traditions.

Are you now calling leave voters total tossers for wanting to leave your EU?

The two parties being Westminster and the Scottish Assembly/ Parliament. It wasn't just Scotland saying we're doing it whether you like it or not. It was agreed with Westminster and there were two sides to the debate.

The Spanish had their constitution and the referendum wasn't covered by the constitution.

The Scots don't seee themselves as English, but their referendum was carried out with consent and legally.

The Catalonians have been part of Spain for centuries and it has been accepted - more or less. Now there are populista at work and they want to head off into the sunset.

Youi are obsessed with money. Yet, as you say, it is about things like language, culture and history. If money is the only motive for being independent, then I would say fair play to London. Hold a referendum on the EU just for London, vote remain and leave the Brexiteers a cow and a goat each.

 

[martcov]

London is a city. Catalonia is a district with a different language and different customs. So what is your point?

London has money. That sems to be your main thought on everything.

 

[Astute]

Same as London though, and there are probably people who want it to be independent!

It isn't about money to the Catalonians. It is about wanting independence for their beliefs, customs and much more.

You don't seem to know much about the subject. And you seem to think it is OK that they attack their own people. You are not interested in finding a solution.

 

[martcov]

I think the problem was that the EU didn't condem hitting women and actually justified it but saying the referendum was illegal.

I thought that was Spain not the EU.

So our government has now been sending out our police to attack our own people?

Mythos?

 

[Grendel]

Same as London though, and there are probably people who want it to be independent!

It clearly isn't the same as London

Catalonia is allowed to be called a separate nation and has its own powers and self governance.

 

[Sick Boy]

It isn't about money to the Catalonians. It is about wanting independence for their beliefs, customs and much more.

You don't seem to know much about the subject. And you seem to think it is OK that they attack their own people. You are not interested in finding a solution.

Beliefs? Much more? Like what?

 

[Sick Boy]

It clearly isn't the same as London

Catalonia is allowed to be called a separate nation and has its own powers and self governance.

I'm sure you'd support Scotland or Wales doing the same without parliamentary approval?

 

[Astute]

The two parties being Westminster and the Scottish Assembly/ Parliament. It wasn't just Scotland saying we're doing it whether you like it or not. It was agreed with Westminster and there were two sides to the debate.

The Spanish had their constitution and the referendum wasn't covered by the constitution.

The Scots don't seee themselves as English, but their referendum was carried out with consent and legally.

The Catalonians have been part of Spain for centuries and it has been accepted - more or less. Now there are populista at work and they want to head off into the sunset.

Youi are obsessed with money. Yet, as you say, it is about things like language, culture and history. If money is the only motive for being independent, then I would say fair play to London. Hold a referendum on the EU just for London, vote remain and leave the Brexiteers a cow and a goat each.

What a load of waffle and piffle.

It is Spain that wants to keep them together for the money. They want to take away all rights for the Catalonians to decide where any tax paid goes. The Spanish government wants to fully take over everything. They have been arresting all officials from Catalonia.

So yes to the Catalonians it is about much more than money. To the Spanish it is all about the money.

 

[martcov]

The Scottish had the vote. Leave or stay. There was not two parties as you try to make out.

The Catalonians wanted a vote. Leave or stay. But the Spanish know it would have been a landslide vote to leave. Catalonians have never seen themselves as Spanish. They are Catalonians. They have a different language. They have different traditions.

Are you now calling leave voters total tossers for wanting to leave your EU?

Where did I say that? I said they would have to have at least 60% as a result to make a major change in the constitution of Spain and of Catalonia. A slender majority would result in years of bickering and people would not accept the result as conclusive. The tossers being the people that didn't put in a clause for a significant majority to authorise a major change. No mention of voters, leave or remain.

 

[Astute]

Beliefs? Much more? Like what?

It shows you know nothing.

Try reading up on it for a few hours. It would then either show that you didn't know what is going on or that you don't care as long as it doesn't affect the EU.

 

[martcov]

What a load of waffle and piffle.

It is Spain that wants to keep them together for the money. They want to take away all rights for the Catalonians to decide where any tax paid goes. The Spanish government wants to fully take over everything. They have been arresting all officials from Catalonia.

So yes to the Catalonians it is about much more than money. To the Spanish it is all about the money.

Catalonia is legally Spain. Spain is taking over no one. It is Spanish. If they want to change it, then it has to be done legally or there will be even more problems. Let's hope someone can stop this and find a way out and then put it to a legal and fair vote. I doubt whether people on the streets in Madrid or Barcelona are going round with a pocket calculator at the moment working out how much money they can save or make.

 

[Sick Boy]

It shows you know nothing.

Try reading up on it for a few hours. It would then either show that you didn't know what is going on or that you don't care as long as it doesn't affect the EU.

In other words, you're making it up as you go along.

 

[Sick Boy]

So our government has now been sending out our police to attack our own people?

Well it sent out the army to NI to shoot innocent protesters in the past.

 

[martcov]

It shows you know nothing.

Try reading up on it for a few hours. It would then either show that you didn't know what is going on or that you don't care as long as it doesn't affect the EU.

Why are you always on about the EU? The Catalonian question has been brewing for centuries - before there even was an EU. It is a problem for the EU because if they take sides they are going to upset people either way. The best they could do is offer to mediate.

 

[Grendel]

I'm sure you'd support Scotland or Wales doing the same without parliamentary approval?

Sorry? I was asking about London and it's similarities to Catalonia - there are none are there?

 

[Astute]

Where did I say that? I said they would have to have at least 60% as a result to make a major change in the constitution of Spain and of Catalonia. A slender majority would result in years of bickering and people would not accept the result as conclusive. The tossers being the people that didn't put in a clause for a significant majority to authorise a major change. No mention of voters, leave or remain.

There wouldn't be a close vote. About 90% want independence. That is why Spain won't allow it.

All they have done is caused major resentment. And if nothing changes it will cause much worse than years of bickering.

FC Barcelona to QUIT La Liga? Club issues warning if Catalonia independence goes ahead

 

[Grendel]

Why are you always on about the EU? .

Says the poster who only ever posts about this one very topic.

 

[martcov]

Would you like to explain how the poorer countries will do as well in a single currency as a country that is strong? Or don't you have a grasp of economics?

Have you bothered to ask that to Estonia and Latvia? Why they have joined the Eurozone recently?

 

[martcov]

Says the poster who only ever posts about this one very topic.

Where's your answer? I posted my link to your question. The artful dodger ....

 

[Sick Boy]

There wouldn't be a close vote. About 90% want independence. That is why Spain won't allow it.

All they have done is caused major resentment. And if nothing changes it will cause much worse than years of bickering.

FC Barcelona to QUIT La Liga? Club issues warning if Catalonia independence goes ahead

What's the 90% based on?

 

[Astute]

Why are you always on about the EU? The Catalonian question has been brewing for centuries - before there even was an EU. It is a problem for the EU because if they take sides they are going to upset people either way. The best they could do is offer to mediate.

What do you class as mediate?

Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

 

[Sick Boy]

Sorry? I was asking about London and it's similarities to Catalonia - there are none are there?

I understand what you're saying, which is why i asked about Wales and Scotland.

 

[martcov]

There wouldn't be a close vote. About 90% want independence. That is why Spain won't allow it.

All they have done is caused major resentment. And if nothing changes it will cause much worse than years of bickering.

FC Barcelona to QUIT La Liga? Club issues warning if Catalonia independence goes ahead

Yes, well if 90% want indepence, then ask for mediation and work out a way to implement it before doing it. I would hope that people can see what happens when you enact a major change without considering the possible outcome. Much better to plan your departure.

 

[Sick Boy]

What do you class as mediate?

Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

I'm surprised as 'neutral' in this debate would quote the ever reliable Express.

 

[Astute]

What's the 90% based on?

Votes made last week. And we have an idea of the way people will vote before it happens.

 

[Grendel]

Have you bothered to ask that to Estonia and Latvia? Why they have joined the Eurozone recently?

Oh easy. The same as Greece Portugal Italy and Spain. They see it as way to obtain a funding source that they can't afford on their own. The real problem is for those in the Euro what they are all really tied to now we are going to leave is the German Mark. That's of course really good as they can continue to borrow at interest rates that are so so much more attractive than if they were standing alone.

Germany is having to have deflation interest rates to prop the project up. That's not good as it's inflation rate is climbing up to 3% - the rates have to rise and then those cheap rates will rise and then it's all going to become uncomfortable.

Of course these countries will join as they are dirt poor.

 

[martcov]

What do you class as mediate?

Panicked Brussels issue Catalonia shock ULTIMATUM: ‘If you quit Spain, you quit EU!’

Yes. That is the present situation. It is not the only possible situation though, but what else can they say based on the present legalities. I class a step towards mediation as placing a stop on the independence issue immediately on condition of commencing serious talks to find a solution.

 

[Sick Boy]

Votes made last week. And we have an idea of the way people will vote before it happens.

The majority of those wanting to stay part of Spain said they weren't going to go out and vote.

 

[Grendel]

Where's your answer? I posted my link to your question. The artful dodger ....

Seriously you are beyond a laughing stock.

You see the only reason the U.K. Wouldn't be allowed a no strings attached free trade deal is spite. They have numerous deals with other countries - 27 is it now - and none of those countries offer anything like the balance of trade benefits the uk offers - so if the uk was say in a different location - say Australia and there was this huge trade surplus in the Euro favour they'd be fawning all over them for a trade deal

In the end that's the debate over. There is no logical argument as to why the eu wouldn't offer the deal as it's in the European business interests.

That is what the Euro is about isn't it? Benefitting members.

 

[martcov]

Oh easy. The same as Greece Portugal Italy and Spain. They see it as way to obtain a funding source that they can't afford on their own. The real problem is for those in the Euro what they are all really tied to now we are going to leave is the German Mark. That's of course really good as they can continue to borrow at interest rates that are so so much more attractive than if they were standing alone.

Germany is having to have deflation interest rates to prop the project up. That's not good as it's inflation rate is climbing up to 3% - the rates have to rise and then those cheap rates will rise and then it's all going to become uncomfortable.

Of course these countries will join as they are dirt poor.

If they were standing alone they would be even poorer. Actually the Krone was pegged to the mark for years anyway even before the Euro and so they knew well what the situation was.

 

[Grendel]

I understand what you're saying, which is why i asked about Wales and Scotland.

So why say London?

 

[Grendel]

If they were standing alone they would be even poorer. Actually the Krone was pegged to the mark for years anyway even before the Euro and so they knew well what the situation was.

You've not understood a word I've written have you?

 

[Sick Boy]

So why say London?

Are you going to answer the question or not?

 

[Astute]

I'm surprised as 'neutral' in this debate would quote the ever reliable Express.

Nothing is neutral to you when it says what you don't like.