Not if you block the rest from the UK.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Not if you block the rest from the UK.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Or strip UK citizens' of their rights to travel freely and live and work in the EU.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I don't get what you mean.
Were you surprised that our population had shot up to 65.6m considering you stated it as 60m?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Where you would prefer our population to continue to be out of control when you are planning to leave because you prefer Verona.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
In reality I will be moving to a country with an actual problem with refugees entering the country as opposed to economic migrants who benefit the country.
No, but I did Geography a long while ago.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Tell that to the millions of homeless people here.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Meaning what?
Germanys population has gone up by less than half a million in the last 17 years.
The UK population was well below the 60m you stated for now 17 years ago.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Even with the hidden homeless there are not millions of homeless people in the UK.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it's an indication that our standing in the world isn't as high as we think.
The 2nd round of tariffs are an indication that a threat from May is seen as nothing but bluster.
The US could have taken our so called special relationship into account and given dispensation to airplanes made in Northern Ireland.
Same as the very luke warm response May got in India, (another one of our target markets for one of these super new trade deals), it's worrying.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course there is. And you went quiet last time I showed the proof on here. Just like you go quiet each time I show you to be wrong.
You tried to show social housing waiting lists to show the homeless situation. But most people these days are not allowed to join social housing waiting lists as they don't have young kids or special needs. Then you have those counted as intentionally homeless for not paying rent in their last hime. And this could be because they lost their job and couldn't afford the rent. And just about every local council has massive waiting lists. Then you have to multiply these numbers as each single number covers a whole family and not each homeless person.
But you already know this.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Sorry I actually think you're confusing me with another poster, I have not posted a graph. Let's just say there are millions, so 2 million, that would mean that 1 in 35 people are homeless.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
America and Canada normally have a good relationship. The Canadians broke state funding rules. Were they supposed to forget it as we are involved?
We already do a lot of trade with India.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Who mentioned a graph?
Some areas are much worse than others. You like to count those having temporary accommodation as having a home. You try bringing up a family in 1 room.
Astute
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It all indicates to me that our world standing, or at least, the world standing of this government, isn't quite what they think it is.
Whatever trade we do with India, this government is relying on us doing a lot more, the Indians weren't won over by Mays visit. They want easier access to the UK for Indian students as part of a deal, I'm sure that will go down well.
Are you saying you have faith in this Government to deliver both Brexit and post Brexit trade deals that will be beneficial for this country?
Astute
Well-Known Member
The EU needs us as much as we need the EU. 12.5% of what we make goes to the EU. Many EU countries rely on the UK.
Your guess is good as mine. But mine isn't biased. We will see once the posturing ends and negotiations start.
Students from all over the world already come here to study including from India.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Thanks for sharing. I will look into it more later but I'd be interested to know what % of them are migrants themselves. If the 3.5m is correct then that is shocking and a stain on successive governments. We are never going to agree on the root cause of it though.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
see the problem I'm starting to have with the EU needs us as much as we need them argument is I am seeing more and more evidence that leads me to believe that there are many politicians and organisations that are prepared to take a hit on their economy to preserve the EU project, (the latest statement from the BDI for example).
Now that stance may seem ridiculous to me and you but if both sides cut off their nose to spite their face then we're all going to suffer.
If we go into a recession over this the fact that the rest of Europe are as well will be of little consolation to me.
And by me, I'm talking about my youngest who leaves school next year, I wan't him to come out to a country and economy that's thriving, sadly my faith in that happening is diminishing.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Exactly.Thanks for sharing. I will look into it more lately but I'd be interested to know what % of them are migrants themselves. If the 3.5m is correct then that is shocking and a stain on successive governments. We are never going to agree on the root cause of it though.
Each government has had a hand in it. And yes there are a lot of people that have come here to live that are homeless. Then you have houses where about 25 or more share. That isn't good enough either. They expected so much more than they got. But they get treated like we are a 3rd world country.
But those who do have a proper home take up a home that would be available if they were not here.
Here is a link I put up a couple of days ago that got ignored as usual
Homes target may never be met, warns housing guru
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which is exactly what I have been saying.
We buy twice from the EU than the EU buys from us. The EU is already going to suffer with the billions each year we won't be putting in. Travel for holidays shouldn't be a problem as we keep many countries going by visiting them. Just a few points out of many.
But we have posturing and threats. This is on both sides. I don't expect us to get everything. But I also don't expect us to get nothing. But I also don't trust politicians. Most are in it for what they can get out of it personally.
At the worse we will get nothing. There will be tariffs on everything. It will cost us more to go to the EU on holiday. But the world is a big place. And there are nicer places than in the EU. Those who love Spain will find somewhere much better.
If our sales go down in the EU it will be tricky for a few years. Many of those who came here to work will leave. But as we are not in the Euro the £ will devalue. That will make our goods cheaper and we will sell more. This is the big advantage we have of not being in the Euro.
A soft landing would be best all round. But we are too strong to crash and burn like some say.
The non EU migrants make up a large %.
Yes, but the whole point of doing something of this magnitude is to put us in a better position than we were. Not crashing and burning is not the aim of the population. We want a better standard of living and freedoms. I don't see Brexit acheiving that. At the moment not crashing and burning seems like it would be a result...
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes they do.
But they can't come here just because they want to. They are mainly students, joining family/partner or have the skills we need. Most come from countries we emigrate to like Australia or America for those without family.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Surely if the first paragraph is true that's exactly why we have to leave! Unelected federalist with snouts in the trough sticking two fingers up at the countries economies they are there to support!
Astute
Well-Known Member
Like I continually say we are in a period of posturing. The EU wants to look strong. We don't want to look weak. The EU isn't as strong as it wants you to believe. The UK isn't as weak as it wants you to believe. Juncker still thinks he can get us to stay. He desperately needs us to stay. Hopefully his days are numbered now the EU are looking into the tax dodges that he was a part of. Then hopefully he will be replaced with someone who wants what is best for the people of the EU and not himself and the country he is from. If he wasn't such a twat we wouldn't be in this situation. If the bigger countries that put billions into the EU had a bigger say than those who are the same size of a city here we wouldn't be in this situation.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Did anyone listen/ watch Teresa May on LBC today for the first time?
A fantastic interview by Iain Dale at 5pm and very revealing.
A fantastic interview by Iain Dale at 5pm and very revealing.
The bigger countries have more say in the parliament, but the problem is when as with Brexit the whole lot has to agree.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which can be a major problem.
The only way to change this would be to get everyone to vote on losing the vote to be able to stop what they want. It isn't going to happen. And the more countries that join the EU the more difficult it will get.
Well it will be difficult, but it has to happen. Money talks, so I am sure the people paying in can use that weapon.
BTW
The DSI has calculated what Brexit could cost Germany on a yearly basis. The EU would lose 10bn and Germany would have to cover 3 bn Euro. The negotiations for the 2020 EU budget start 2018. the hope is that there will be more financial discipline and that cuts will be made to reduce the 3 bn figure. In real terms 3 bn at the moment is not the end of the world for Germany anyway.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So where would the other 7b come from?
And if cuts could be made have they been wasting the money we have been putting in?
No need to answer that.
The talk now is how much the tariffs would be if no deal is made. Most are not massive. Cars should be 10%. Industrial products between 2 and 3%. But the big one is agricultural goods. 20% to 40%.
Reality Check: What would 'no Brexit deal' look like?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it depends how worried you are about the alternative.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Do you have evidence of this? I thought that a lot had come from south America in recent years.
The other 7 bn would come from the other net payers - I presume. The article I read was from a German tax payers point of view.
I was at a parents evening last night. The school used to do exchange visits with Cardinal Wiseman. Now they go to near Madrid and say that if Brexit comes, exchange visits with the UK probably won’t happen because they will not get an EU contribution.
The main theme in English this year is Ireland. I asked if this was because of Brexit, but it isn’t - apparently.
As regards both sides suffering negative effects, then that shows what Brexit voters have done to millions of people. If they think that would be a win, that would be like having a fight: you break my nose and claim a win and I knock your teeth out and claim a win. We are both bragging about our win and everyone else can see what tossers we actually are.
Yes, she doesn’t know what would happen to over 1 million British Citizens living abroad if she cannot satisfy the EU that EU citizens would keep their rights. This after months of talks.