fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
VAT is a consumption tax which disproportionately affects the poorest. It went up soon after the Tories got into power.
Oh Jeremy Corbyn (49 Viewers)
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VAT is a consumption tax which disproportionately affects the poorest. It went up soon after the Tories got into power.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
So what?
Again and I have said it throughout the thread, why should the rich be punished for doing well.
Astute
Well-Known Member
That is why income tax only starts at nearly 1k a month income. VAT has to be charged at the same rate for everyone otherwise it would be a nightmare in the shops.
I would stop tax exemptions for things like private jets for companies. Like the Lewis one.
Astute
Well-Known Member
They already are. They hand over half of what they earn already.
So 50% income tax and VAT at 20%. They are left with 30%. And that is without other taxes they have to pay.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Why should the poor be punished for doing badly?
dutchman
Well-Known Member
That is assuming they pay tax on ALL their income which we know not to be the case.
As a proportion of TOTAL income rich people pay less tax than poor people.
Economy introductions: income tax and who pays it
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They're not being 'punished'. Why should the poor be 'punished' for not earning so much (if that means doing badly)?
By poor I don't just mean those who don't work.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Jesus wept
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That is assuming they pay tax on ALL their income which we know not to be the case.
As a proportion of TOTAL income rich people pay less tax than poor people.
Economy introductions: income tax and who pays it
Which is inevitable due to tax on consumer goods.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It is because VAT is levied on not just what should be considered as consumer goods, like sanitary towels, power, all adult clothing. It's a ridiculous system but generates more revenue than income tax.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Always been a fan of a tax on stocks and shares. That way everyone who owns a piece of a company pays a proportionate amount of tax.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is wrong there?
I believe that the rich should pay more. But tax them too much and they end up looking for more tax dodges or leaving the UK and then paying no tax.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
They aren’t being punished? It’s a fair rate? Everyone pays it. The poor are also the ones begging for houses, benefits, and food banks, yet they don’t wish to pay anything into supporting it?
Rich people should support them why? Again I go back to the point. It’s all about personal responsibility there is nothing wrong with being down in the dirt and needing help, there is something wrong with blaming everyone else and expecting others to bail you out constantly
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Again where have I said the poor should be punished? I am saying it is fair to have set rate? He is talking about increasing the rate for the rich, which would be being punished
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not to pick on Astute but this highlights the problem all parties have in getting economic policy over to the masses. Even in sound bite form people struggle so when you drill down into the detail you've already lost the interest of most voters.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The VAT argument ultimately is pointless anyway if you support the EU.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Bollocks, it's decreased every single year since 2010.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Not every rich person has got there by their own endeavour, in reality the majority of wealth is passed down and on. I bet if you looked at everyone alive today, the proportion of those who got off their arse and earnt it themselves is significant outweighed by those that were born into that wealth. There is a reason why most of the worlds wealth is within a tiny amount of its population.
You are also kind of intimating that every poor person is there because of their failings... again not even remotely accurate. Quite often born into a cycle that cannot easily be escaped.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Shame the national debt hasn't...
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What a load of half-baked rubbish. Who has said the 'poor' don't wish to pay anything? You have just made that up you fool.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Perish the thought someone wants a roof over their head, and some food...
Astute
Well-Known Member
Those who have had it passed down to them don't pay income tax on it.
What we have to be careful of is people not wanting to risk everything to make money when they know they will pay a very high rate of income tax if their gamble pays off. It is jobs that we need.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That doesn't make any sense, somebody making themselves very wealthy doesn't always mean they're employing somebody. How many footballers, for example, actually create employment.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which of course is a basic requirement of society but it is ultimately an argument of how long state dependency should be tolerated and self dependency become a requirement.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
But on a very primitive level if you eliminate tax avoidance you could spend on housing (including social) which would in turn create jobs.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
So they should be taxed more on the wealth they inherit when in most case, they pay 40% of tax above whatever the threshold is for that person?
You bet? Have you got any facts, I myself come from parents who were lower class/ lower middle class, and now firmly sit in the middle class. However I went to a school, where the majoirt of the pupils there, came from well off families, and from my experience, almost none of my friend's families had their wealth passed on. probably about 1/6 people did, but even then their parents, and they were more often than not very hard=working in order to continue that legacy. There was the odd exemption ofc, some were tossers, who had been given everything and would live off their parents for the rest of their lives, but in the large part, most were getting off their arse and doing something.
No i have intimated that. I have said that a lot of the poorest people, it hasn't happened overnight, shit happens, and its okay for it to happen, and need a hand to get back up, but it isn;t other responsibility, to pay their way and carry them through life, and a lot, again from experience, feel sorry for themselves and their situation and want to blame it on that instead of doing something.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
'You fool', I love it when people can't debate so just resort to insults.
Dutchman said that only the rich should pay VAT, so they would be footing the bill for poor people who don't want to pay is what i was saying, probably worded badly but nevermind. you resort to insults behind a screen, if that makes you feel good
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
This is the problem, it isn't as simple as that is it?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
There's no reason it couldn't be - if the desire to change things was there.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Yes there is every reason it shouldn’t be and it’s impossible to make any debate if you honestly believe that sadly
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No it hasn't, though I appreciate it's a little bit more complicated than it has or it hasn't:
Labour and Conservative records on the national debt
But one thing is definite, it wasn't wiped out in 2015 as per their manifesto.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I've held my hands up to be wrong before on here too, as have many others. Even when they are wrong? People are always going to have a range of opinions, just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
That’s national debt? They promised to eliminate the deficit- ofc yes which they haven’t done, but they did say that they wouldn’t well before 2015. But not an excuse as they say they didn’t fulfill the pledge
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
I know I was going to say that you were one of them?
Where have I said opinions are wrong? I said people have set opinions and so they cannot see when they are wrong on certain points.