The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (57 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

You seem to know him extremely well...or are you believing what you read in the papers?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

He’s peobably got this new tech called eyes and ears.

 

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[shmmeee]

Saw this. When he and the others tell us to stay and demand a second referendum such as the honorable Tony Blair and cretins like nick Clegg, It’s desperate and confirms to me leaving is the best option.

It’s always been about our money (second biggest net contributor) and more importantly Tony Blair’s personal holiday money.

You’re nuts if seriously think this. Sorry, but get a grip. Tony Blair has fuck al to do with anything.

 

[Kingokings204]

You’re nuts if seriously think this. Sorry, but get a grip. Tony Blair has fuck al to do with anything.

No of course not. You’re nuts I would suggest if you seriously think that.

 

[Kingokings204]

As far as I can tell, based the so-called 'negotiations' so far, Britain will be paying as much if not more towards the EU budget after Brexit as it is now.

Good point. But does that have to be the case?

 

[Sick Boy]

Tusk makes another desperate appeal...................for more British money basically..............fuck off you stupid twat, can't you see what a mess our own infrastructure is in without handing you shits a load of cash to benefit the Germans ultimately !! Mind blowing !

It's mind blowing that you took that from what he said.

 

[clint van damme]

Good point. But does that have to be the case?

I'm convinced that this country, whether in or out, is heading for the rocks.
The tories are running it into the ground and any opposition worth their salt should have them well and truly on the ropes, instead they're too busy fighting among themselves. It's a sorry state of affairs and one that we'll end up paying for.

 

[clint van damme]

It's mind blowing that you took that from what he said.

not if you've read some of his other posts!

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm convinced that this country, whether in or out, is heading for the rocks.
The tories are running it into the ground and any opposition worth their salt should have them well and truly on the ropes, instead they're too busy fighting among themselves. It's a sorry state of affairs and one that we'll end up paying for.

Sadly, I have to agree. There were numerous issues that needed immediate attention before Brexit that are not going to be sidelined for years to come. Increasingly we are going to end up with even greater gulfs between the rich and the poor

 

[Kingokings204]

not if you've read some of his other posts!

Ah you’re back. You really should be the champion of free speech.

Let’s have a debate and be grown ups instead of snide remarks hey?

 

[Kingokings204]

I'm convinced that this country, whether in or out, is heading for the rocks.
The tories are running it into the ground and any opposition worth their salt should have them well and truly on the ropes, instead they're too busy fighting among themselves. It's a sorry state of affairs and one that we'll end up paying for.

I don’t disagree but it doesn’t have to be like this. We don’t have to pay masses of money in a divorce bill. We don’t have to have a transitional period. I would like to know who on the leave side voted for a transitional deal for example on the basis on it wasn’t mentioned once in the campaign by either side. Then again leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for so save your breath on that reply. It’s boring.

End of the day we can call it what we want but what is happening is a compromise and it’s the worst deal. You are either in or out. Being out but accepting EU regulations and courts and transitional periods with no definite end etc etc is not being out and what people voted for.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ah you’re back. You really should be the champion of free speech.

I'd be interested to how he came to that conclusion based on what was said. I saw it as offering the hand of friendship and co-operation rather than demands to fill Germany's coffers, but oh well.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don’t disagree but it doesn’t have to be like this. We don’t have to pay masses of money in a divorce bill. We don’t have to have a transitional period. I would like to know who on the leave side voted for a transitional deal for example on the basis on it wasn’t mentioned once in the campaign by either side. Then again leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for so save your breath on that reply. It’s boring.

End of the day we can call it what we want but what is happening is a compromise and it’s the worst deal. You are either in or out. Being out but accepting EU regulations and courts and transitional periods with no definite end etc etc is not being out and what people voted for.

Until the English realise that they are no longer a world super power, there's always going to be those who are angry with having to work together with other nations.

Saw this artice which I thought was interesting Brexit is a collective English mental breakdown

 

[Kingokings204]

I'd be interested to how he came to that conclusion based on what was said. I saw it as offering the hand of friendship and co-operation rather than demands to fill Germany's coffers, but oh well.

At least you debate and no snide remarks. Thank you.

Well we need both, he had his opinion you can’t just dismiss it and you’ve got yours and we can’t dismiss yours and I’ve got mine.

To keep it on debate, I think Germany do run the rule over the EU and people don’t like it. The EU seems to massively suit them but that’s not really my point. My point is we are second biggest net contributors and the EU clearly wants us to stay and IMO that’s because of our money. Without us there is a massive black hole and they are worried hence the backlash for us to stay. The cleggs and Blair’s and tusks want us all to stay. They see the whole thing crumbling apart without us and if we make a success of brexit then we won’t be the last country to leave of which there is no doubt.

 

[Sick Boy]

It'd be good to hear from those who told us that 'negotiations' would be 'easy' and that the UK held all of the cards. When are the trump cards going to be pulled out? Are you happy with how it's going so far? What should be done differently?

 

[Kingokings204]

It'd be good to hear from those who told us that 'negotiations' would be 'easy' and that the UK held all of the cards. When are the trump cards going to be pulled out? Are you happy with how it's going so far? What should be done differently?

Very good questions and debate.

It doesn’t have to be like what is happening and that’s to appease both leavers and remainers the problem with that is you can have both even the EU made that clear. We are in and have the benefits or out and have the benefits. It’s a mixture of the two atm and it doesn’t work.

My opinion is and I shall try and keep this short to save blathering on. We do have a strong hand no doubts but need to play it as such. We are getting walked on because they know we have a remain cabinet majority and PM. Would this be the case if remain had won and we had a leavers majority cabinet and PM. No chance.

We need to walk away and show them we are serious and then when they come back we can have serious discussions on a healthy future relationship. This is just bullying and unpleasant. We will be out in name only and this will then drag on and on and the European question won’t go away.

You?

 

[Sick Boy]

Very good questions and debate.

It doesn’t have to be like what is happening and that’s to appease both leavers and remainers the problem with that is you can have both even the EU made that clear. We are in and have the benefits or out and have the benefits. It’s a mixture of the two atm and it doesn’t work.

My opinion is and I shall try and keep this short to save blathering on. We do have a strong hand no doubts but need to play it as such. We are getting walked on because they know we have a remain cabinet majority and PM. Would this be the case if remain had won and we had a leavers majority cabinet and PM. No chance.

We need to walk away and show them we are serious and then when they come back we can have serious discussions on a healthy future relationship. This is just bullying and unpleasant. We will be out in name only and this will then drag on and on and the European question won’t go away.

You?

I'm over in Italy at the moment, so will reply to properly you when I'm waiting for my flight back to Gatwick tomorrow. Edit: have put down some initial thoughts.

I will ask you what you'd do if the EU didn't come back? From what we've seen so far, the UK isn't the one calling the shots and Davis' 'row of the summer' was over on the first day, which tells us a lot.

Who would you propose being PM? A leave PM and leave cabinet isn't going to happen as there is not a clear cut majority for it to happen in the UK. Whatever people say, the result was close and the cabinet is reflective of the opinions across the country. A more pressing concern is how the country is going to heal the polarisation that we currently have and is going to cause problems for years.

Despite being told to 'suck it up' and the childish label of 'remoaners', there is no reason why remain voters should not voice their opinion and concerns over this.

I'd also remind you that the UK has very much played its part in shaping the EU and that is is not an enemy.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don’t want a second referendum on Brexit, absolutely not. But I fear that you are all working together with Tony Blair and Nick Clegg to make sure that we get the worst possible deal. I say that because I’ve seen it all before. The difference is, if you force the Brits to do it again, there will be a different outcome.

The above is a quote from Nigel Farage. Apparently Blair and Clegg are working behind the scenes to ensure Britain gets a bad deal and that he has never said he wanted a 2nd referendum.

He is an utter moron.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's mind blowing that you took that from what he said.

Yet not surprising.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don’t disagree but it doesn’t have to be like this. We don’t have to pay masses of money in a divorce bill. We don’t have to have a transitional period. I would like to know who on the leave side voted for a transitional deal for example on the basis on it wasn’t mentioned once in the campaign by either side. Then again leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for so save your breath on that reply. It’s boring.

End of the day we can call it what we want but what is happening is a compromise and it’s the worst deal. You are either in or out. Being out but accepting EU regulations and courts and transitional periods with no definite end etc etc is not being out and what people voted for.

No body voted for the terms and sadly plenty of leave voters failed to recognise this either when they voted or since.

The divorce bill was always going to happen and for more reasons than our contractual responsibilities. Not sure how we’d look on the world stage if we demonstrated ourselves as a nation that contractual obligations meant nothing to. Not sure how that reputation would stand us in trade negotiations. Not sure how that would effect our WTO membership, wouldn’t have gone down well I’d imagine and would have run the risk of us being thrown out as some sort of rogue state putting us on the same footing as someone like North Korea with trade in everyday goods.

When it comes to the divorce bill you come across as someone who knows the cost but not the value. We’re paying what we were always going to pay. Just a shame Davies and Co had to make it such an incompetent drawn out journey to get there.

 

[clint van damme]

I don’t disagree but it doesn’t have to be like this. We don’t have to pay masses of money in a divorce bill. We don’t have to have a transitional period. I would like to know who on the leave side voted for a transitional deal for example on the basis on it wasn’t mentioned once in the campaign by either side. Then again leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for so save your breath on that reply. It’s boring.

End of the day we can call it what we want but what is happening is a compromise and it’s the worst deal. You are either in or out. Being out but accepting EU regulations and courts and transitional periods with no definite end etc etc is not being out and what people voted for.

no one knows whether we voted for a transitional deal or not. It wasn't stipulated. You can keep repeating the mantra you're either in or out but it doesn't mean it's true, it's clear to anyone there are a multitude of grey areas.

Be honest, did you know about EU atomic regulation, EU pharmacy regulation, I didn't and they're all affected.

You only have to look at the differences of opinion between leave voters to know it meant different things to different people. No matter how it pans out there are going to be people who will say that's not what I voted for, that's politics.

 

[Kingokings204]

Yet not surprising.

Ok old son.

 

[Kingokings204]

no one knows whether we voted for a transitional deal or not. It wasn't stipulated. You can keep repeating the mantra you're either in or out but it doesn't mean it's true, it's clear to anyone there are a multitude of grey areas.

Be honest, did you know about EU atomic regulation, EU pharmacy regulation, I didn't and they're all affected.

You only have to look at the differences of opinion between leave voters to know it meant different things to different people. No matter how it pans out there are going to be people who will say that's not what I voted for, that's politics.

My worry is and do you agree that we end up half in and half out? Does that even work?

 

[skybluetony176]

My worry is and do you agree that we end up half in and half out? Does that even work?

Something David Cameron to his credit kept banging on about right from the start. Probably dismissed as a remain lie or scare story though. Watch the Cameron Ferage TV debate, it’s pretty much Cameron’s reply to everything Ferage had to say.

Does it work? Works for Norway. Something Ferage once would have loved.

 

[Kingokings204]

Something David Cameron to his credit kept banging on about right from the start. Probably dismissed as a remain lie or scare story though. Watch the Cameron Ferage TV debate, it’s pretty much Cameron’s reply to everything Ferage had to say.

Does it work? Works for Norway. Something Ferage once would have loved.

But we are bigger and better than Norway. Although they are a successful country and good living standards and it seems to work for them doesn’t it? They don’t seem eager to join anytime soon do they?

 

[Sick Boy]

But we are bigger and better than Norway. Although they are a successful country and good living standards and it seems to work for them doesn’t it? They don’t seem eager to join anytime soon do they?

How is the UK 'better than Norway'? You are aware they are in the single market and accept FoM? Pay more per capita than the UK and have zero say in policies?

 

[martcov]

He’s peobably got this new tech called eyes and ears.

No. Twitter.

 

[martcov]

But we are bigger and better than Norway. Although they are a successful country and good living standards and it seems to work for them doesn’t it? They don’t seem eager to join anytime soon do they?

They are in most parts of it and have oil revenue which they probably don’t need to share.

 

[martcov]

Tusk makes another desperate appeal...................for more British money basically..............fuck off you stupid twat, can't you see what a mess our own infrastructure is in without handing you shits a load of cash to benefit the Germans ultimately !! Mind blowing !

The shit loads of cash are in offshore bank accounts or have been paid out as bonuses to unscrupulous private company directors.

How can our government benefit the Germans financially?

Germany is quite capable of looking after itself.

I think you are missing the point. Our infrastructure is fxxked because of our government. It will stay fxxked for the foreseeable future because our government is tied up trying to hire ever more civil servants and paying off it’s EU liabilities all as a result of Brexit press brainwashed tossers voting to cast us adrift from our geographical and economic home.

 

[Kingokings204]

How is the UK 'better than Norway'? You are aware they are in the single market and accept FoM? Pay more per capita than the UK and have zero say in policies?

Bigger economy and bigger population. We do more trade also.

Yeah I am aware. It isn’t perfect I know but they seem to do well but a smaller not so well known worldwide country. Despite all that they are in no rush to join the EU are they?

 

[clint van damme]

My worry is and do you agree that we end up half in and half out? Does that even work?

well this is why when people say we know what we voted for I don't agree.
Norway has had 2 referendums on joining the EU, they've rejected it both times. I think the last time was 54 - 48 of a turnout of over 70%.
Since then there have been polls conducted which conclude if they had another referendum the no vote would be over 70%!
I think it's fair to say Norwegians don't want to be in the EU.
However, whenever following the Norwegian model is mentioned people say it's a soft Brexit and not what we voted for, I can't understand that at all.
So whether you consider that a soft Brexit or not is surely subjective? Some would say that is half in half out but some wouldn't consider it to be.

I think there are certain issues which people who voted leave would agree with almost universally, ending the payment of membership fees to the EU for example.
Then freedom of movement, where I would think it's a bit more mixed though heavily weighted towards those who want it to end. But I think the lines start to get blurred very quickly.

 

[Sick Boy]

Bigger economy and bigger population. We do more trade also.

Yeah I am aware. It isn’t perfect I know but they seem to do well but a smaller not so well known worldwide country. Despite all that they are in no rush to join the EU are they?

No because they have the luxury of oil...to swing your question on its head, they're in no rush to stop abiding by EU laws or ending FoM for access to the SM market, are they?

 

[Sick Boy]

It is my opinion that Brexit is already dead, it's up to the government how it is handled and announced to the people and how the backlash is dealt with.

 

[Sick Boy]

well this is why when people say we know what we voted for I don't agree.
Norway has had 2 referendums on joining the EU, they've rejected it both times. I think the last time was 54 - 48 of a turnout of over 70%.
Since then there have been polls conducted which conclude if they had another referendum the no vote would be over 70%!
I think it's fair to say Norwegians don't want to be in the EU.
However, whenever following the Norwegian model is mentioned people say it's a soft Brexit and not what we voted for, I can't understand that at all.
So whether you consider that a soft Brexit or not is surely subjective? Some would say that is half in half out but some wouldn't consider it to be.

I think there are certain issues which people who voted leave would agree with almost universally, ending the payment of membership fees to the EU for example.
Then freedom of movement, where I would think it's a bit more mixed though heavily weighted towards those who want it to end. But I think the lines start to get blurred very quickly.

We were told by Farage that the Norway option was one we could be taking and numerous leave politicans told us no one was talking about taking us out of the SM.

May's Lancaster House speech looks like a bad joke now, full of broken promises. There is no mandate for taking us out of the SM and CU, she was certain there was and utilised this message during the election campaign and look what happened.

Despite what we are told, we can stay in the SM and leave the EU. Hard Brexit is an interpretation of the result, nothing else.

 

[Grendel]

well this is why when people say we know what we voted for I don't agree.
Norway has had 2 referendums on joining the EU, they've rejected it both times. I think the last time was 54 - 48 of a turnout of over 70%.
Since then there have been polls conducted which conclude if they had another referendum the no vote would be over 70%!
I think it's fair to say Norwegians don't want to be in the EU.
However, whenever following the Norwegian model is mentioned people say it's a soft Brexit and not what we voted for, I can't understand that at all.
So whether you consider that a soft Brexit or not is surely subjective? Some would say that is half in half out but some wouldn't consider it to be.

I think there are certain issues which people who voted leave would agree with almost universally, ending the payment of membership fees to the EU for example.
Then freedom of movement, where I would think it's a bit more mixed though heavily weighted towards those who want it to end. But I think the lines start to get blurred very quickly.

Do you think if we were not in the EU and were asked to join a referendum would vote in?

 

[Grendel]

We were told by Farage that the Norway option was one we could be taking and numerous leave politicans told us no one was talking about taking us out of the SM.

May's Lancaster House speech looks like a bad joke now, full of broken promises. There is no mandate for taking us out of the SM and CU, she was certain there was and utilised this message during the election campaign and look what happened.

Despite what we are told, we can stay in the SM and leave the EU. Hard Brexit is an interpretation of the result, nothing else.

What happened? A man who REALLY wanted imus out of the CU and the SM did rather well.

The party who wanted to remain disappeared without trace.