„The establishment“? Right wing Tories are the establishment as are public schoolboys and millionaires. They won. They want to carry out their agenda outside of the pesky EU with it’s labour and environmental laws. Bring it on. Let’s smash these liars once and for all. Farage has just created more employment for himself having blown his money on women and drink, and faced with his own divorce bill which he is negotiating by claiming to be skint.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (161 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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„The establishment“? Right wing Tories are the establishment as are public schoolboys and millionaires. They won. They want to carry out their agenda outside of the pesky EU with it’s labour and environmental laws. Bring it on. Let’s smash these liars once and for all. Farage has just created more employment for himself having blown his money on women and drink, and faced with his own divorce bill which he is negotiating by claiming to be skint.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Most conservative Mps public schoolboys and millionaires want to stay in the EU - the most ooor areas in the country had larger leave votes - how do you explain that?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Areas of the country that have been neglected by successive Londoncentric governments, it's easier to go along with the narrative that a foreign outsider is to blame for their woes rather than admit that they have been the cause all along.
Ironically, a lot of these regions also benefited from EU projects and funding, I'm sure our governments will retain this level of funding over the coming decades.
See Sickboy’s explanation. The Brexit media is controlled by the extreme rich and is consumed by the poor. How do you explain that?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s a typical deflection from the uncomfortable truth for people like him and like you.
It’s actually a response of astounding arrogance. It discounts the views of elements of society that feel they no longer have a voice and are alienated. Lazily chucking out a racism accusation or a cliche about the establishment and a notion the EU knows best is all you have.
In the end as I’ve stated many times socialists who believe in wealth equality and redistribution know these ideals are an antithesis of the core values of the Eu which is big government and big state control which benefits the few societies at the expense of the many.
Totally the opposite according to the likes of Farage who claim that our tax money is being used to improve infrastructure in poorer countries, thus raising the standard of living in poorer areas. He is against this form of „wealth distribution“, but I can understand the benefits of more equal living standards throughout Europe by investing to raise living standards. A core value of the EU is peaceful coexistence which can be achieved by raising living standards. Has nothing to do with offshore accounts, tax reforms benefiting the rich, a Race to the bottom by competing with ever lower tax returns from big businesses.... these are the policies of Trumpists and right wing millionaires. Not the EU. Hence Murdoch and Rothermere always on the side of big business. The poor are told that it is the migrants or Brussels that are to blame for their problems and that they have to fight the establishment. More fool them if they fall for that.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
.
I think populism has a lot to do with it. I think people will soon realise that it's not working for them. The political beneficiaries of this should be Labour but if I'm been honest, I think they will need a more centrist party leader to do so and I fully expect this to happen, possibly after the next general election.
I think populism has a lot to do with it. I think people will soon realise that it's not working for them. The political beneficiaries of this should be Labour but if I'm been honest, I think they will need a more centrist party leader to do so and I fully expect this to happen, possibly after the next general election.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Oh come on, in a Feb 2017 report the EU got about £19.5bn (accounting for rebates etc.), generously in 2015 (latest records) the EU gave back only £8.4bn. Fed up of this bollocks about EU grants, the UK government can hand out grants just as if not more effectively and from a bigger pot if we don't have to pay the EU.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes, people talk about EU grants without knowing anything about how they work in reality. The different government departments who are able to grant EU money have to make a case that it meets various EU set priorities (which in fairness are usually about job creation etc).
That said, I wouldn't Trust the current government to provide any sort of replacement for EU grant or other EU funds like ESF or the ERDF (or whatever their current equivalent is).
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Any government of whatever persuasion would use the money to promote its aims and objectives.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The current government's aims and objectives are to reduce the size of the state and reduce the budget deficit to zero.
Says who? How do you know? Look at how they are taking care of the NHS. Effective? No. The EU‘s fault? Yeah, of course it is.... haha
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with the NHS, are you so easily confused?
Data from article in Telegraph, good enough for you?
I thought the government was funding the NHS. A good example of administering public money.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Of course it does. The money we send to the EU has already been earmarked for the NHS.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I was responding to Sickboys nonsense about the benefits of EU grants and pointing out that membership of the EU reduces the potential pot available for such grants, it is only you that tried to link this to NHS funding even though there is no connection.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That’s not what he was saying is it? You talk about leavers being confused - on Question Time the other week some poor confused soul was asking how we’d survive without all the money the EU give us.
It’s like going to a bank to deposit £100,000 and told we will keep that now it’s ours but don’t worry we will give you free double glazing in your house.
The connection is that you are claiming that we would use the money for better things, such as it’s aims and purposes. I don’t believe the present government would use the money more sensibly based on, e.g. the way they run the NHS. Still, when the 350 million a week starts flowing into the NHS I shall be proved wrong.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No he’s not saying that at all
Or, paying into an organisation covering such things as trade and infrastructure, and a part of the „membership fee“ being used to finance the agreed aims and purposes of the organisation. Some parts of which are projects in our own country.
He said „Any government of whatever persuasion would use the money to promote its aims and objectives.“ I am saying that the aims and purposes of the government are not necessarily better than the aims and purposes of the EU, which are agreed by the members of the EU including us. I don’t believe in particular that this present government would share the aims and purposes of the EU, and I think that the money would be used for something else, such as balancing the current budget.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell - this is exactly what remain voters were dismissing as scare tactics by the opposition and you actually want it!!
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No I didn't. You need to review your perception of reality, are you confusing me with Boris Johnson?
What do I want? A part of our „membership fee“ to be spent on the aims and purposes of the EU? Yes, of course I do. There are infrastructure, regeneration, tourism and job creation projects etc., sponsored by the EU ( indirectly by the net contributors ). Yes, as long as they are audited and controlled, All for that.
I doubt whether you are a lying two timing bullying self important pompous popinjay, so therefore I cannot be confusing you with the buffoon Boris Johnson.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Or indeed Junker
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No I'm nothing like Sadiq Khan.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
You've seen it for yourself countless times on this forum, it's nothing to go with Government and all the fault of immigrants.
No, I suspect you are a white person with a very different outlook to Sadiq Khan. In the case of being glad that the ultimate turd, Trump, is not coming to London just yet, I agree with Khan‘s sentiment. The, comparatively, junior turd Farage is joining with Johnson in blaming Khan for upsetting Trump. If Khan, and Corbyn are the reasons for Trump not coming, which I doubt, then they both deserve an OBE or even MBE.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Theresa May has disowned Boris's remarks about Trump not coming because of Corbyn and Khan, what a shambles this government is.
Incidentally, it wasn't that long ago that Boris said he wouldn't visit New York in case he ran into Trump!
Yes, the hypocrisy is amazing. We live in a post truth era. Just make whatever you want up.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Then he lets you down by arguing strongly that all girls should be educated, why can't he live up to your tag of an "arrogant popinjay" rather than thinking aloud and proposing solutions to the problems that bedevil poor countries.
Girl power! Educating girls can fix the world’s problems | The Spectator
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
the sentiment of that article is great, (Christopher Hitchens was arguing it for years prior to his death), but Boris is still guilty of all the other shit that gets thrown at him. He'll probably change his mind about this next week.
Yes. Every broken clock is right twice a day. No doubt he gets some things right. Doesn’t make him honest, not a two timer, not a buffoon etc.. That piece is not his mainstay. He is the hypocrite that he always was. It would be better if that article summed up his political mission. But it doesn’t.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
No it is the fault of those who permit a system to be 'agreed' that facilitates virtually limitless immigration
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