The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

?

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    37,933
    Likes Received:
    10,940
    Credit:
    £842.77
    It’s a typical deflection from the uncomfortable truth for people like him and like you.

    It’s actually a response of astounding arrogance. It discounts the views of elements of society that feel they no longer have a voice and are alienated. Lazily chucking out a racism accusation or a cliche about the establishment and a notion the EU knows best is all you have.

    In the end as I’ve stated many times socialists who believe in wealth equality and redistribution know these ideals are an antithesis of the core values of the Eu which is big government and big state control which benefits the few societies at the expense of the many.
     
    Kingokings204, SIR ERNIE and Ashdown like this.
  2. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    Totally the opposite according to the likes of Farage who claim that our tax money is being used to improve infrastructure in poorer countries, thus raising the standard of living in poorer areas. He is against this form of „wealth distribution“, but I can understand the benefits of more equal living standards throughout Europe by investing to raise living standards. A core value of the EU is peaceful coexistence which can be achieved by raising living standards. Has nothing to do with offshore accounts, tax reforms benefiting the rich, a Race to the bottom by competing with ever lower tax returns from big businesses.... these are the policies of Trumpists and right wing millionaires. Not the EU. Hence Murdoch and Rothermere always on the side of big business. The poor are told that it is the migrants or Brussels that are to blame for their problems and that they have to fight the establishment. More fool them if they fall for that.
     
  3. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,344
    Likes Received:
    9,018
    Credit:
    £314.15
    .
    I think populism has a lot to do with it. I think people will soon realise that it's not working for them. The political beneficiaries of this should be Labour but if I'm been honest, I think they will need a more centrist party leader to do so and I fully expect this to happen, possibly after the next general election.
     
    martcov likes this.
  4. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    Oh come on, in a Feb 2017 report the EU got about £19.5bn (accounting for rebates etc.), generously in 2015 (latest records) the EU gave back only £8.4bn. Fed up of this bollocks about EU grants, the UK government can hand out grants just as if not more effectively and from a bigger pot if we don't have to pay the EU.
     
    Kingokings204 and SIR ERNIE like this.
  5. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,823
    Likes Received:
    9,724
    Credit:
    £509.08
    Yes, people talk about EU grants without knowing anything about how they work in reality. The different government departments who are able to grant EU money have to make a case that it meets various EU set priorities (which in fairness are usually about job creation etc).

    That said, I wouldn't Trust the current government to provide any sort of replacement for EU grant or other EU funds like ESF or the ERDF (or whatever their current equivalent is).
     
  6. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    Any government of whatever persuasion would use the money to promote its aims and objectives.
     
  7. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,823
    Likes Received:
    9,724
    Credit:
    £509.08
    The current government's aims and objectives are to reduce the size of the state and reduce the budget deficit to zero.
     
    martcov likes this.
  8. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    Says who? How do you know? Look at how they are taking care of the NHS. Effective? No. The EU‘s fault? Yeah, of course it is.... haha
     
    Sick Boy likes this.
  9. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    This has nothing to do with the NHS, are you so easily confused?
    Data from article in Telegraph, good enough for you?
     
  10. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    I thought the government was funding the NHS. A good example of administering public money.
     
  11. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    17,995
    Likes Received:
    10,356
    Credit:
    £493.05
    Of course it does. The money we send to the EU has already been earmarked for the NHS.
     
    martcov likes this.
  12. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    I was responding to Sickboys nonsense about the benefits of EU grants and pointing out that membership of the EU reduces the potential pot available for such grants, it is only you that tried to link this to NHS funding even though there is no connection.
     
  13. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    37,933
    Likes Received:
    10,940
    Credit:
    £842.77
    That’s not what he was saying is it? You talk about leavers being confused - on Question Time the other week some poor confused soul was asking how we’d survive without all the money the EU give us.

    It’s like going to a bank to deposit £100,000 and told we will keep that now it’s ours but don’t worry we will give you free double glazing in your house.
     
  14. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    The connection is that you are claiming that we would use the money for better things, such as it’s aims and purposes. I don’t believe the present government would use the money more sensibly based on, e.g. the way they run the NHS. Still, when the 350 million a week starts flowing into the NHS I shall be proved wrong.
     
  15. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    37,933
    Likes Received:
    10,940
    Credit:
    £842.77
    No he’s not saying that at all
     
  16. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    Or, paying into an organisation covering such things as trade and infrastructure, and a part of the „membership fee“ being used to finance the agreed aims and purposes of the organisation. Some parts of which are projects in our own country.
     
  17. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    He said „Any government of whatever persuasion would use the money to promote its aims and objectives.“ I am saying that the aims and purposes of the government are not necessarily better than the aims and purposes of the EU, which are agreed by the members of the EU including us. I don’t believe in particular that this present government would share the aims and purposes of the EU, and I think that the money would be used for something else, such as balancing the current budget.
     
  18. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    37,933
    Likes Received:
    10,940
    Credit:
    £842.77
    Fucking hell - this is exactly what remain voters were dismissing as scare tactics by the opposition and you actually want it!!
     
    Kingokings204 likes this.
  19. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    No I didn't. You need to review your perception of reality, are you confusing me with Boris Johnson?
     
  20. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    What do I want? A part of our „membership fee“ to be spent on the aims and purposes of the EU? Yes, of course I do. There are infrastructure, regeneration, tourism and job creation projects etc., sponsored by the EU ( indirectly by the net contributors ). Yes, as long as they are audited and controlled, All for that.
     
  21. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    I doubt whether you are a lying two timing bullying self important pompous popinjay, so therefore I cannot be confusing you with the buffoon Boris Johnson.
     
  22. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    37,933
    Likes Received:
    10,940
    Credit:
    £842.77
    Or indeed Junker
     
  23. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    No I'm nothing like Sadiq Khan.
     
  24. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    Location:
    Brighton & Hove
    Credit:
    £261.84
    You've seen it for yourself countless times on this forum, it's nothing to go with Government and all the fault of immigrants.
     
    martcov likes this.
  25. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    No, I suspect you are a white person with a very different outlook to Sadiq Khan. In the case of being glad that the ultimate turd, Trump, is not coming to London just yet, I agree with Khan‘s sentiment. The, comparatively, junior turd Farage is joining with Johnson in blaming Khan for upsetting Trump. If Khan, and Corbyn are the reasons for Trump not coming, which I doubt, then they both deserve an OBE or even MBE.
     
    wingy and Sick Boy like this.
  26. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,344
    Likes Received:
    9,018
    Credit:
    £314.15
    Theresa May has disowned Boris's remarks about Trump not coming because of Corbyn and Khan, what a shambles this government is.
    Incidentally, it wasn't that long ago that Boris said he wouldn't visit New York in case he ran into Trump!
     
    martcov likes this.
  27. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    Yes, the hypocrisy is amazing. We live in a post truth era. Just make whatever you want up.
     
  28. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,883
    Likes Received:
    2,957
    Credit:
    £274.21
    Then he lets you down by arguing strongly that all girls should be educated, why can't he live up to your tag of an "arrogant popinjay" rather than thinking aloud and proposing solutions to the problems that bedevil poor countries.

    Girl power! Educating girls can fix the world’s problems | The Spectator
     
  29. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,344
    Likes Received:
    9,018
    Credit:
    £314.15
    the sentiment of that article is great, (Christopher Hitchens was arguing it for years prior to his death), but Boris is still guilty of all the other shit that gets thrown at him. He'll probably change his mind about this next week.
     
  30. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    Yes. Every broken clock is right twice a day. No doubt he gets some things right. Doesn’t make him honest, not a two timer, not a buffoon etc.. That piece is not his mainstay. He is the hypocrite that he always was. It would be better if that article summed up his political mission. But it doesn’t.
     
  31. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,785
    Likes Received:
    823
    Credit:
    £307.50
    No it is the fault of those who permit a system to be 'agreed' that facilitates virtually limitless immigration

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  32. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,785
    Likes Received:
    823
    Credit:
    £307.50
    Except had they allowed him in unencumbered...they could've had a meeting with him & used the power of reason to convince him of the error of his ways. Opportunity lost!

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  33. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    Location:
    Brighton & Hove
    Credit:
    £261.84
    Yes all of the country's woes are the fault of those pesky immigrants. They're just another in a line of successive scapegoats. We've had the Irish, people from the east, the west...the EU will probably be to blame still years after the UK has left.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    martcov likes this.
  34. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    No they couldn’t. Power of reason doesn’t come into the equation. He is a semi literate idiot working on his gut feeling of how to please his base and he is educated by Fox News.
     
  35. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    Credit:
    £479.00
    America was built by immigrants. Trump‘s family game from Germany. His mother was Scottish and his wife is Slovenian. The English are a totally mongrel people.

    What makes racists angry enough to forget their own mongrel background is usually colour of skin and/ or religion. In Brexit Britain there is the additional contempt for people from Eastern Europe- except Putin's Russia, strangely enough.
     

Share This Page