oucho
Well-Known Member
I think being 3 points off the PO slots by mid Feb is acceptable, especially with gamrs in hand. Being competitive this season was key and we have done that despite the recent blip. It's not sackable.
Should Mark Robins be sacked? (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter mark82
- Start date
itsabuzzard
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Of course not at this point, but ending up outside 7th at the end certainly is.
Otis
Well-Known Member
At what point do you think the board WOULD sack Mark Robins? Or do you think he would survive regardless?
You would have to think if we say lost 8 or 9 games in a row it would be at least be a topic of discussion in the boardroom.
If we ended up way, way down the league perhaps?
Just wondering and also wondering, amongst those who don't want him sacked would you have a turning point in which you would change your mind?
I don't want him sacked, but if we were to lose 6 or 7 games in a row I would certainly reassess my position.
You would have to think if we say lost 8 or 9 games in a row it would be at least be a topic of discussion in the boardroom.
If we ended up way, way down the league perhaps?
Just wondering and also wondering, amongst those who don't want him sacked would you have a turning point in which you would change your mind?
I don't want him sacked, but if we were to lose 6 or 7 games in a row I would certainly reassess my position.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Interesting point. I think they'll keep him unless we fall away badly because I think he was appointed on a 2 year plan to get back to League One and restructure the scouting network and information base. However if he does not succeed next season I can't see them keeping him, in fact isn't that when his contract runs to?
steve82
Well-Known Member
Fancy finding out how many of those clubs went up with the same manager who started in harge of their first season down...?
As you requested....
Swindon 3rd 06/07
Started with Dennis Wise - left for Leeds
Finished with Paul Sturrock
Harlepool 2nd 06/07
Started with Danny Wilson
Finished with Danny Wilson
Walsall 1st 06/07
Started with Richard Money
Finished with Richard Money
Gillingham play off winners 08/09
Started with Mark Stimson
Finished with Mark Stimson
Wycombe 3rd 10/11
Started with Gary Waddock
Finished with Gary Waddock
Swindon 1st 11/12
Started with Paulo Di Canio
Finished with Paulo Di Canio
Scunthorpe 2nd 13/14
Started with Brian Laws - sacked after 16 games, Scunthorpe 12th 2pts outside play offs.
Finished with Russ Wilcox
Shrewsbury 2nd 14/15
Started with Micky Mellon
Finished with Micky Mellon
Doncaster 3rd 16/17
Started with Darren Ferguson
Finished with Darren Ferguson
Blackpool play off winners 16/17
Started with Gary Bowyer
Finished with Gary Bowyer
10 clubs promoted 8 by the same manager who started the season and 1 who sacked there manager. Scunthorpe sacked Brian Laws after 16 games, Scunthorpe were 12th 2pts outside play offs mid November. The other Dennis Wise left Swindon for Leeds late October with Swindon 3rd
steve82
Well-Known Member
I think at the point you lose 6/7 on the bounce unless it's blatantly obvious with injuries to vital players then the door has to be kicked open for any manager to leave.
We could get close to that with Mansfield's home record, Wycombe won't be easy and a massive home game v Lincoln.
I dread to think of we lose all 3 which could happen!
I'd like to see him a little more responsive during games but I feel he's learned a lot this year in L2 about the league more, the demands. The characters he's brought in, the kids who are developing more and will shape the squad better this summer to go at the second attempt
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Wrong teams!
The sides that got promoted in their second season. How many of them kept their manager from the start of season 1 until promotion?
steve82
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha..... oops!!
I've just started that list when I've completed it I'll post it up.
*slight delay, called away on a job
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Does that mean he had no input into the result?
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Otis
Well-Known Member
It's times like these you need to decide what's important in life, work or SBT?
Where's your loyalty, man?
oucho
Well-Known Member
Arrgh no it isn't sackable. Do you sack someone because they come near to a target and miss? No. It's called investing in people; I have full confidence we'll be a strongrer force next season if MR stays on that we'd be if we rip it all up and start all over again .
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Does sacking the manager mean we will avoid this fate and start going in the other direction? From the evidence I see over the last ten years at this club it is sack the manager and continue to fall. Time to give someone a chance.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Isn’t the board just Tim Fisher?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If he carries on stubbornly sticking to a busted system what basis do you have for expecting improvement? It isn't anything personal against the man, it is the prospect of another manager who can't learn from his mistakes and adapt to change.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Gave Thorn a chance after relegation-disaster. Gave Mowbray a chance after he bombed the 15/16 season-disaster. Each manager showed an inability to adapt and we expected it to change.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sacked and left before being sacked. How did their replacements fair? Robins left before the Northampton debacle and then Pressley installed and then sacked after being given a four year contract. Venus and then Slade, did they take us forward? Robins produced an upturn in fortune when he took over and has proved to be as good as any manager we have had in the last ten years. Should we be tenth in the fourth division? No, but the blame for that lies with Sisu and the way they have run this club. Why should getting someone else in work this time when the last ten or eleven appointments have been perceived as failures? Give Robins the time he needs and at least try to buck the trend.
JulianDarbyFTW
Well-Known Member
I have two tipping points. One would be if he can't arrest the slide, and we end up slipping down to 12th - 14th at the end of the season. The second would be if he can't solve the issue with away form. He needs to loosen the shackles a little, and let them attack. Playing for draws is no good when we have ground to make up. The caveat is that I would make the decision at the end of the season.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Who was the last manager we had who was able or at least willing to change things when they started to go sour? SISU are the reason behind the bigger picture, but not the reason for Robins setting teams up to steal draws in every game. I like him, I want him to succeed, but he is afflicted by the same thing that has plagued our last God knows how many managers. They cannot arrest a slide.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Exactly - it is SISU who need to take a long hard look...at THEIR process success is either instant (i.e. throw in shed loads of money) or gradually build (requires a good standard and consistency behind the scenes)
Maybe...just maybe (& imo hopefully) - the latter is what they have chosen
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rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
It wouldn’t be so bad if SISU threw in some of the money they bring in every 6 months for the starlets they sell and there will be more to come in the summer a fit again Jodie Jones for example. Bayliss will go possibly more, then there’s some more money from the Maddison add ons and possibly Callum Wilson’s too and yes I know we are a selling club all outside the Premier are especially in our division but how many in division one or two have had the millions we have had from the last four seasons ? Our home attendances are better than most in this division and would think our season ticket sales better than most too.
As for Mark Robins I admit I don’t rate him, don’t like his system of play which was evident before any injuries took hold and find his match day management at half time substitutions etc puzzling to be honest. Of his three January signings 2 have been a joke, one Barrett pathetically unfit, have they improved us in our moment of need ? not a bit. What did he see in them ? Hopefully JCH will prove to be okay I think he can be but he needs supply playing 7 defenders home and away ain’t going to do that.
So do I think MR should be be sacked ? Well I sympathise with any manager from Andy Thorne to Mark Robins working under the restraints this owner shackles to our club but she doesn’t pick the team, dictate the way we play or picked our signings this season, there’s been 15 I think if my maths are correct, one a much needed goalkeeper but is he better than the one we had ? in a word no. Still I wouldn’t sack Robins at this moment in time let him see the season out but should we not make the top 7 is failure, a massive failure imo, in his system of play, match day management and in his recruitment I’m afraid, then yes in my opinion he should go.
As for Mark Robins I admit I don’t rate him, don’t like his system of play which was evident before any injuries took hold and find his match day management at half time substitutions etc puzzling to be honest. Of his three January signings 2 have been a joke, one Barrett pathetically unfit, have they improved us in our moment of need ? not a bit. What did he see in them ? Hopefully JCH will prove to be okay I think he can be but he needs supply playing 7 defenders home and away ain’t going to do that.
So do I think MR should be be sacked ? Well I sympathise with any manager from Andy Thorne to Mark Robins working under the restraints this owner shackles to our club but she doesn’t pick the team, dictate the way we play or picked our signings this season, there’s been 15 I think if my maths are correct, one a much needed goalkeeper but is he better than the one we had ? in a word no. Still I wouldn’t sack Robins at this moment in time let him see the season out but should we not make the top 7 is failure, a massive failure imo, in his system of play, match day management and in his recruitment I’m afraid, then yes in my opinion he should go.
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stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
This season the foundations have been laid next season hopefully we start to reap the rewards at last
Covstu
Well-Known Member
The positive is that we won’t see a whole squad swap like last seasons with the volume of loanees so that’s a plus however I do fear that a lot of our good talent will be ripe for the picking
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yup and if you were a professional footballer you will surely want to play at the highest level you possibly can and receive the wages that go with it.
Hope we hold on to everyone, but think we would lose our best players in the summer.
oucho
Well-Known Member
I have faith that he knows the way he wants to play and he will continue to build up the squad he wants. You can't turn a club round in 12 months, you need years. I'd allow him 2-3 "failure" seasons before really putting him on the clock. Let's face it, the method of allowing a manager 18 months to sink or swim has failed over the years so we won't see a quick turnaround by anyone. He needs time to learn, and sometimes you can only do that by failing initially.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Exactly so as I have said previously he has given us a few massive highs up until these highs our younger and indeed youngest fans had never had anything to celebrate being a Coventry fan yes we will almost definitely lose some of our 'star' players but there's room for more players to come in hopefully and enjoy our future successes
Otis
Well-Known Member
I wonder what crowds will be left after 2-3 failure seasons.
I'm sure the likes of Grimsby and Crewe and Morecambe etc. have pretty steady ST sales year on year. Think once you find a stable place in a division I guess ST sales would remain pretty much the same and unwavering. Certainly not dropping like a stone anyway.
The attendances however at the City have been dropping and dropping and dropping on the back of abject failure in the league for nigh on 20 years and the lack of faith in our owners.
Another 2-3 years of failure and we could be subject to many years down the wrong end of the table or even face relegation out of the Football League.
Be great if we could afford 2-3 seasons of failure in order to build and I'm sure it's a decent plan for many other clubs, but for us, I honestly think it would be disastrous.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Your opening sentence here I think adds weight as to why finally we should stick by someone. As soon as things don’t go to Plan the manager is under pressure and inevitably gets the chop. You are obviously hoping that someone new comes in, it all goes great from the start and we are on a constant upward tradjectory. Any dip and presumably we would be onto the next manager. Why have none of the managers we have had over the past few years been able to do this? They have all had success elsewhere ( okay Thorne and Venus excepted).
I really liked Tony Mowbray but even I would admit that after the Armstrong Murphy season it was virtually start all over again time, particularly with the loss of Fleck. This time it is a little different. For whatever reason, he was allowed to give out two year contracts this time. Therefore hopefully, promoted or not, it will be a case of fine tuning rather than a complete overhaul. Yes,we might be cherry picked from further up the food chain but at least if someone like McNulty goes, we get a fee which he would hopefully be allowed to reinvest.
There are lots of things I haven’t enjoyed about Robin’s teams this season; his switch from an apparent attacking philosophy to a defensive one, the turgid nature of much of the football particularly in the first half of games, the infuriating policy of throw ins or free kicks in the opponents half which are sent back towards our own goal and which nine times out of ten result in a long punt from Burge. For all of this I still think Robin’s is our best hope and promotion or not I think we should stick with him.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
This is the same argument you used for getting rid of Mowbray. We are now three managers on from him, still dropping like a stone. If you could guarantee that the next one is the one to change things then I am with you. The fact is you know and I know that the same old things will be being said six,nine or twelve months down the line if instant success is not achieved. Accrington are a good example of how a manager who is good and trusted ( and is a good fit to a particular club as Robin’s seems to be here) can, with a longer term view, eventually achieve success. Why will it be any different with, to quote yourself, our eleventy-billionth manager?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I didn't want to see Mowbray sacked, but felt we had too.
I am not one for calling for managers' heads. I too think it can be counter productive, but would add the caveat that surely any manager who lost 8 or 9 games in a row would be sacked. Whoever they were it would be on the table at least.
As I have said with Robins, outside the top 7 is failure, but I would only advocate him being sacked if we finished very poorly and not if we were just pipped at the post.
I like Robins and HAVE backed him, but we are unfortunately back in the territory where it's starting to go wrong and we are not setting ourselves up in games correctly (especially away).
I want to see Robins address that and I hope he will. However, if we carry on in the exact same manner, with the exact same tactics and we lose every remaining away game, or lose just about all of them and don't win any, I would say that is cause to consider sacking him.
We can all see where it is going wrong and we just want the manager to do something about that.
I am not one for asking for the heads of managers, but you can't just give them a carte blanche and say if they lose 7, 8 or 9 games in a row that their job is safe whatever.
oucho
Well-Known Member
I disagree. We're not on a treadmill desperately needing instant success NOW NOW NOW. It's not critical that we get promoted this season. We only got relegated last time and a few season where we're competitive at the right end of the table will stop the bleeding. This will give time for a thorough re-building of the squad, back-room systems, feeder system, scouts, U23s, academy, including staff, players and systems, all according to one person's vision. You don't design and build a great fortress in a fortnight - you need to invest lots of time in laying the proper foundations. Appointing someone and expecting him to turn around years of decline with an instant promotion is as unrealistic as it is unreasonable. Yes of course I'd like us to go up but it's not a disaster if it doesn't happen this season or next because chances are we'll be using that time to set a plan and a vision for longer term success. I'd expect crowds to pretty much hold up during that time.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It would be good if Boddy came out and said as you have said above, that we are planning for the long term. I suppose with the legal action ongoing it is hard to say that and carry it out when we may be homeless next year. However, if they did say this at least everyone would know the plan and that those calling for Robin’s to go would know He has been given time to build.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Should Mark Robins be sacked ........... seems to be a resounding NO on the Poll
Perhaps time to get behind him and the team and to stop the calls for him to be replaced?
Perhaps time to get behind him and the team and to stop the calls for him to be replaced?
oucho
Well-Known Member
The off-field shenanigans are something else again - shouldn't really affect MR's long term planning on the football department side of things. But I agree it would be good to have certainty, ideally a permanent / long-term deal at the Ricoh and an end to the legals, so the whole issue ceases to be on the table.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of that post is fanciful rhetoric. Do you really not expect crowds to decrease the longer we're here? A few seasons in Div 4, flirting with the play offs without promotion, after 50 years of nothing will put off more than it encourages back in my opinion. People just won't see that as a success for this club, our customers are burnt out. Average crowds closer to 6k than 8k will put us firmly back in the pack. And that will undermine everything you've written above.
How many seasons in div 4 would you expect us to maintain the expense associated with our category of academy too? The U23s, the academy, the feeder system, none of it needs rebuilding, it's all a success now. So what are you left with? Re-building of the squad, back-room systems, staff, players and systems. All first team related. 2 summer transfer windows ought to be enough to make us very competitive on the pitch at this level. I think that's why so many people are prepared to give him the summer, most people get that (see the poll results). Robins needs to show he's learned some lessons about this division though bceause if at that end of next season that one person's vision is still playing with no central midfielders and scraping 1-0s then we may well have wasted the only seasons where we are genuinely a big club in this division.