Tic, Toc, Tic, Toc (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

So if Robins hasn’t been able to spend our budget are you going to cancel his taxi?

I think the likelihood is he’s overspent it.

 

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[skybluetony176]

I think the likelihood is he’s overspent it.

Thought you might. You have an idea of our budget and spend then? Maybe all the teams above us have overspent, maybe all the teams above us had bigger budgets and bigger spends. You don’t really know do you?

 

[wingy]

We'll never know but history shows we only use around 83% of what we're permitted.
At least in the post Championship years .

 

[skybluetony176]

We'll never know but history shows we only use around 83% of what we're permitted.
At least in the post Championship years .

Which probably makes it more likely that we have an underspend not overspend. Not that it matters either way as “budgets are an irrelevance”. Apparently

 

[Grendel]

We'll never know but history shows we only use around 83% of what we're permitted.
At least in the post Championship years .

We sold Maddison as we’d gone over the budget that season was the suggestion and had run into cash flow issues.

This season crowds are what around 7,500?

If 4,500 are season tickets and half are concessions that is around £1m revenue. Walk ups then would be around the same. I don’t know what other revenue the club gets but it can’t be more than another million or so can it?

It’s been suggested we’ve budgeted for 9,000 by someone on here and probably at higher full paying mix so I’d say we are over due to the miscalculation more than anything else.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We sold Maddison as we’d gone over the budget that season was the suggestion and had run into cash flow issues.

This season crowds are what around 7,500?

If 4,500 are season tickets and half are concessions that is around £1m revenue. Walk ups then would be around the same. I don’t know what other revenue the club gets but it can’t be more than another million or so can it?

It’s been suggested we’ve budgeted for 9,000 by someone on here and probably at higher full paying mix so I’d say we are over due to the miscalculation more than anything else.

That wouldn't be suggesting the manager had spent too much, though, more the club haven't generated the income they hoped.

This season we would, anyway, with a cup run... wouldn't we? The fact we've handed out cash for Clarke-Harris (in whatever form) suggests we're doing OK wrt our spending vs the budget. Of course there's always the risk you 'go for it' but I'd reckon Stevenson going out would offset anything else, too.

I'd actually sday the cup runs of the past couple of seasons have saved us more than anything.

 

[mechaishida]

It makes no difference , it’s 1 point we are fucked six points off a playoff place

Given the climate of our club, and the freefall we've been on since 2001, you're expecting success after MR's been in charge for what, less than a year?

You really need to see the bigger picture, because I believe MR has gone some way to steadying this sinking bloody ship.

Never mind me, please continue your campaign of short sighted belligerence.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

The rinse, wash, repeat of changing managers hasn't worked in the past and I've enjoyed this season by a country mile more than last (we're actually 26 pointss better off than this time last year!) Still frustrating that we've had some slip ups, but we all know we've been hit with several key injuries. I've said it before and I'll say it again - regardless of where we end up, I want to give MR another season to help turn us around - we all know it was a bloody difficult job with our owners and I think he's doing ok (whether by luck or judgmenet, time will tell)

 

[skybluetony176]

We sold Maddison as we’d gone over the budget that season was the suggestion and had run into cash flow issues.

This season crowds are what around 7,500?

If 4,500 are season tickets and half are concessions that is around £1m revenue. Walk ups then would be around the same. I don’t know what other revenue the club gets but it can’t be more than another million or so can it?

It’s been suggested we’ve budgeted for 9,000 by someone on here and probably at higher full paying mix so I’d say we are over due to the miscalculation more than anything else.

You haven’t factored in the FA cup run.

 

[skybluetony176]

That wouldn't be suggesting the manager had spent too much, though, more the club haven't generated the income they hoped.

This season we would, anyway, with a cup run... wouldn't we? The fact we've handed out cash for Clarke-Harris (in whatever form) suggests we're doing OK wrt our spending vs the budget. Of course there's always the risk you 'go for it' but I'd reckon Stevenson going out would offset anything else, too.

I'd actually sday the cup runs of the past couple of seasons have saved us more than anything.

FA cup must be worth we’ll over 500k in prize money and extra ticket income on its own.

 

[shmmeee]

Budgets are an irrelevance.

Yep, only a 90% correlation with league position. Total irrelevance. ( Subscribe to read )

 

[coop]

I think he has next year as well to get us up Andreu and Jones will be back and feel like new players.We constantly change Management and it's got us in Division 4.

 

[Captain Dart]

We sold Maddison as we’d gone over the budget that season was the suggestion and had run into cash flow issues.

This season crowds are what around 7,500?

If 4,500 are season tickets and half are concessions that is around £1m revenue. Walk ups then would be around the same. I don’t know what other revenue the club gets but it can’t be more than another million or so can it?

It’s been suggested we’ve budgeted for 9,000 by someone on here and probably at higher full paying mix so I’d say we are over due to the miscalculation more than anything else.

Disingenuous hogwash designed to mislead, the profit on transfer dealings alone in the last accounts was nearly £2.5M. The budget will be less this season but the transfer profitability will not radically differ, Stevenson just went and they'll be bonuses from the sales of Maddison & Wilson.

 

[ajsccfc]

I think he has next year as well to get us up Andreu and Jones will be back and feel like new players.We constantly change Management and it's got us in Division 4.

This is where I am with it too I think. I find it hard to justify his position if we do fail to make the playoffs but at the same time I'd still rather keep him on. We have to allow some kind of failure without constantly ripping everything up and starting again in the hope that it works at the 47th try.

 

[Grendel]

That wouldn't be suggesting the manager had spent too much, though, more the club haven't generated the income they hoped.

This season we would, anyway, with a cup run... wouldn't we? The fact we've handed out cash for Clarke-Harris (in whatever form) suggests we're doing OK wrt our spending vs the budget. Of course there's always the risk you 'go for it' but I'd reckon Stevenson going out would offset anything else, too.

I'd actually sday the cup runs of the past couple of seasons have saved us more than anything.

I can’t see the cup run generating much at all - the first 2 would have lost money and the stoke game was like one additional league game. Only the Brighton game would yield any dividend. If we equate 55% of turnover for the club to spend on wages and transfers it’s pretty low all in all

Given the league we are in has very little in the way of transfer spend the biggest spend argument is really purely on the clubs wage bill. I would be very surprised if ours wasn’t one of the highest.

 

[Grendel]

FA cup must be worth we’ll over 500k in prize money and extra ticket income on its own.

That’s not in the budget and the only real revenue would have been reviewed after the transfer window closed.

 

[Grendel]

Disingenuous hogwash designed to mislead, the profit on transfer dealings alone in the last accounts was nearly £2.5M. The budget will be less this season but the transfer profitability will not radically differ, Stevenson just went and they'll be bonuses from the sales of Maddison & Wilson.
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You are just guessing and making wild assumptions. It’s very unlikely we received a huge fee upfront for Stevenson. It’s now into the fourth year of the Wilson - do you think they just keep paying us until he retires?

Good attempt at deflection though.

 

[skybluetony176]

I can’t see the cup run generating much at all - the first 2 would have lost money and the stoke game was like one additional league game. Only the Brighton game would yield any dividend. If we equate 55% of turnover for the club to spend on wages and transfers it’s pretty low all in all

Given the league we are in has very little in the way of transfer spend the biggest spend argument is really purely on the clubs wage bill. I would be very surprised if ours wasn’t one of the highest.

Think I read somewhere that getting to the fifth round was worth £380K in prize money alone. Attendances for all five games was just over 60K so half of that based on a very conservative £10 a ticket profit is worth over £ 300K. So being conservative we’re already well over £600K probably nearer £ 750K, not sure you could describe that as not much at all.

 

[skybluetony176]

That’s not in the budget and the only real revenue would have been reviewed after the transfer window closed.

But you said that the budget was based on 9k gates. I’d imagine that this cup run more than makes up the difference. Most of the revenue from the cup run actually came before the Brighton game and before the transfer window closed, some £200k in prize money and a half share of 35+k ticket revenue from the figures I’ve been reading.

 

[Grendel]

But you said that the budget was based on 9k gates. I’d imagine that this cup run more than makes up the difference. Most of the revenue from the cup run actually came before the Brighton game and before the transfer window closed, some £200k in prize money and a half share of 35+k ticket revenue from the figures I’ve been reading.

Uh? The two games against non leagues would have even cost money not gained any. Stoke even being very generous would have been around £90000 before match day costs? The prize money would only have been paid by the end of January up to round 3 I would think as would any gate receipts.

If the club had assumed the extra 2,000 at full walk up value that’s over £1 million.

 

[Grendel]

Note that the previous manager who everybody said was rubbish and always loses form in the 2nd half of the season is currently sitting pretty at the top of League One.

Don't know what you think but my conclusion is that this is budget related, we have too little and he has one that's adequate to achieve promotion.

The last published Blackburn wage bill I can see is £25 million. It will clearly be less now but will still be more than 5 or 6 clubs out together.

 

[skybluetony176]

Uh? The two games against non leagues would have even cost money not gained any. Stoke even being very generous would have been around £90000 before match day costs? The prize money would only have been paid by the end of January up to round 3 I would think as would any gate receipts.

If the club had assumed the extra 2,000 at full walk up value that’s over £1 million.

Round one was £18k prize money plus a share of 3.3k ticket sales, round two was £ 27k prize money plus a share of 2.9k ticket sales. I doubt they were a loss before you even factor in that they had to be played to allow you to get to rounds 3,4 and 5

 

[Grendel]

Think I read somewhere that getting to the fifth round was worth £380K in prize money alone. Attendances for all five games was just over 60K so half of that based on a very conservative £10 a ticket profit is worth over £ 300K. So being conservative we’re already well over £600K probably nearer £ 750K, not sure you could describe that as not much at all.

Sigh.

The revenue post January cannot impact transfer policy this season - you can’t assume monies until you receive them

It’s actually 45%

The first two ties you can net off as losses so really all we can look at from a revenue perspective to influence transfer activity this season is the money we gained from the stoke game and prize money for those rounds. Actually if we are really being pedantic the club would have have made a revenue provision of sorts for a first round tie anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sigh.

The revenue post January cannot impact transfer policy this season - you can’t assume monies until you receive them

It’s actually 45%

The first two ties you can net off as losses so really all we can look at from a revenue perspective to influence transfer activity this season is the money we gained from the stoke game and prize money for those rounds. Actually if we are really being pedantic the club would have have made a revenue provision of sorts for a first round tie anyway.

Sigh

We were already booked into the fifth round so the money was known. As already pointed out the majority of the cup run money was already secured in the first four games.

Sigh again

The first two ties can’t be netted of at losses as the winnings alone for those two games alone ensures that’s not the case. Just how much do you think our rent is?

Sigh a third time. Even if you discount the Brighton game you keep conveniently forgetting the MK game. Stoke was worth £67.5k in prize money alone and the MK game that you keep ignoring was worth £90k in prize money alone. Not small amounts even by your imagination although I’m sure you’ll give it your best go.

Not sure why you’re arguing the point anyway given that you think budgets are irrelevant.

 

[Grendel]

Sigh

We were already booked into the fifth round so the money was known. As already pointed out the majority of the cup run money was already secured in the first four games.

Sigh again

The first two ties can’t be netted of at losses as the winnings alone for those two games alone ensures that’s not the case. Just how much do you think our rent is?

Sigh a third time. Even if you discount the Brighton game you keep conveniently forgetting the MK game. Stoke was worth £67.5k in prize money alone and the MK game that you keep ignoring was worth £90k in prize money alone. Not small amounts even by your imagination although I’m sure you’ll give it your best go.

Not sure why you’re arguing the point anyway given that you think budgets are irrelevant.

Provisions will not be considered even if Gaurenteed.

Budgets are irrelevant as all they are is projected maximum spend off a formula calculation submitted at the start of a season.

A club could submit this figure and spend a third of it. Another club could over estimate and end up exceeding it through miscalculation.

Then of course there is the added complexity of calculating average revenue per head against projected crowds. The club as I understand it budgeted 9,000 heavily weighted against adults purchases and walk ups. So even if it held some in reserve for January it’s pretty obvious that it’s over egged it’s spend and has no room to manoeuvre.

Budgets are irrelevant regarding the judgement on Robins as it’s pretty much a case of lining up the wage bills and ranking them in this league.

The only relevance of a budget is it’s supposed to be a maximum cap. Accrington when you look at their revenue has to have a very small wage budget. The likes of us Mansfield and Luton can easily operate within it and have higher spend if they choose to.

I repeat you can have the biggest budget but could have the 24th in terms of spend so yeah budget is irrelevant.

 

[skybluetony176]

Provisions will not be considered even if Gaurenteed.

Budgets are irrelevant as all they are is projected maximum spend off a formula calculation submitted at the start of a season.

A club could submit this figure and spend a third of it. Another club could over estimate and end up exceeding it through miscalculation.

Then of course there is the added complexity of calculating average revenue per head against projected crowds. The club as I understand it budgeted 9,000 heavily weighted against adults purchases and walk ups. So even if it held some in reserve for January it’s pretty obvious that it’s over egged it’s spend and has no room to manoeuvre.

Budgets are irrelevant regarding the judgement on Robins as it’s pretty much a case of lining up the wage bills and ranking them in this league.

The only relevance of a budget is it’s supposed to be a maximum cap. Accrington when you look at their revenue has to have a very small wage budget. The likes of us Mansfield and Luton can easily operate within it and have higher spend if they choose to.

I repeat you can have the biggest budget but could have the 24th in terms of spend so yeah budget is irrelevant.

So you’re going to cancel your taxi then? Using your own theories our league performance could be outstripping our spending could it not?

 

[Grendel]

So you’re going to cancel your taxi then? Using your own theories our league performance could be outstripping our spending could it not?

No not a chance it is. Our wage bill will be much higher than teams who are well above us.

 

[skybluetony176]

No not a chance it is. Our wage bill will be much higher than teams who are well above us.

And how would you know that? Given that budgets are irrelevant.

 

[Grendel]

And how would you know that? Given that budgets are irrelevant.

I’ve answered that in my post above Tony.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ve answered that in my post above Tony.

You’ve assumed then basically.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

You’ve assumed then basically.

If you and G ever meet up, it'll be like Oliver Reed and Alan Bates in 'Women in Love' !

 

[Captain Dart]

You are just guessing and making wild assumptions. It’s very unlikely we received a huge fee upfront for Stevenson. It’s now into the fourth year of the Wilson - do you think they just keep paying us until he retires?

Good attempt at deflection though.

Well we will see, just because you are struggling to work it out I should point out that the initial budget this season will be largely funded from the results that should be coming out in a few days as the last accounting period ended at the end of last season. They should contain a very nice bonus from the Checkatrade cup success. I will be sure to remind you when the numbers are out.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

The rinse, wash, repeat of changing managers hasn't worked in the past and I've enjoyed this season by a country mile more than last (we're actually 26 pointss better off than this time last year!) Still frustrating that we've had some slip ups, but we all know we've been hit with several key injuries. I've said it before and I'll say it again - regardless of where we end up, I want to give MR another season to help turn us around - we all know it was a bloody difficult job with our owners and I think he's doing ok (whether by luck or judgmenet, time will tell)

Yea back on point.
I have to agree with this.

 

[Grendel]

Well we will see, just because you are struggling to work it out I should point out that the initial budget this season will be largely funded from the results that should be coming out in a few days as the last accounting period ended at the end of last season. They should contain a very nice bonus from the Checkatrade cup success. I will be sure to remind you when the numbers are out.

I’m not struggling to work out anything. Osb showed you the way with that one when you were clearly floundering.

You keep blaming owners for lack of money but why would owners pump money in anyway with “fans” like you who superglue themselves to their armchair every weekend and never ever have any intention of actually supporting the club? They need to reserve funds to preserve the club. You and people like you are to blame as much as Sisu.

When was it you actually went to a game? Was Harry Storer the manager?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I’m not struggling to work out anything. Osb showed you the way with that one when you were clearly floundering.

You keep blaming owners for lack of money but why would owners pump money in anyway with “fans” like you who superglue themselves to their armchair every weekend and never ever have any intention of actually supporting the club? They need to reserve funds to preserve the club. You and people like you are to blame as much as Sisu.

When was it you actually went to a game? Was Harry Storer the manager?

Don't start saying that anyone who doesn't go any more is as bad as SISU. In doing so you make yourself, for all you knowledge on everything, look like an utter tit.